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Forums - Theory / composition / technique
Subject: Dorian Scale
Original Message 1/14 10-Feb-03 @ 09:06 AM - Dorian Scale
So all a Dorian scale is a minor but with a flatterened 7th, yes?
Message 2/14 10-Feb-03 @ 01:48 PM - RE: Dorian Scale
I believe that is correct. Gonna have to go back to my theory books to figure it out, though. I wonder where I put those things?...
Message 3/14 11-Feb-03 @ 10:53 AM Edit: 11-Feb-03 | 11:24 AM - RE: Dorian Scale
modes are easy to figure out.
Play a C scale. That's C to C with no sharps or flats. that's C Tonic. Now, start with D and go up to the next D without any sharps or flats. That's D dorian. Now go to E and play up to the next E without any sharps or flats. That's E Phrygian. And so on. F to F in the key of C is F lydian. G to G in the key of C is G Mixolydian, A to A in the key of C is A Aeolian, B to B in the key of C is B Locrian.
Now go up to D. D major (Tonic) has two sharps. E dorian has two sharps. F Phrygian has two sharps, G Lydian has two sharps. A Mixodylian has two sharps. B Aeolian has two sharps. C Locrian has two sharps.
Seeing a pattern here? Tonic, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian... it just shifts starting points while maintaining the same key.
That's why A Minor (natural minor is the aeolian mode) is the same key as C major. And that's what makes harmonic substitution so much fun and interesting. You can put a completely different chord in, and it's still using most of the notes of the original chord, so it works mood-wise.
Just build triadic chords (every other note in the scale) in a given key on the different starting notes to hear modal harmony in action. (in the key of C tonic would be CEG, dorian would be DFA, Phrygian would be EGB, and so on)
When you start noticing that these different chords fall into different categories of feeling in given key (tonic [I], dominant [V], subdominant [IV]) and that certain chords want to move to other chords (IV-V-I), then you're really getting somewhere! Just play around on the damn keyboard...
psy
Play a C scale. That's C to C with no sharps or flats. that's C Tonic. Now, start with D and go up to the next D without any sharps or flats. That's D dorian. Now go to E and play up to the next E without any sharps or flats. That's E Phrygian. And so on. F to F in the key of C is F lydian. G to G in the key of C is G Mixolydian, A to A in the key of C is A Aeolian, B to B in the key of C is B Locrian.
Now go up to D. D major (Tonic) has two sharps. E dorian has two sharps. F Phrygian has two sharps, G Lydian has two sharps. A Mixodylian has two sharps. B Aeolian has two sharps. C Locrian has two sharps.
Seeing a pattern here? Tonic, Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aeolian, Locrian... it just shifts starting points while maintaining the same key.
That's why A Minor (natural minor is the aeolian mode) is the same key as C major. And that's what makes harmonic substitution so much fun and interesting. You can put a completely different chord in, and it's still using most of the notes of the original chord, so it works mood-wise.
Just build triadic chords (every other note in the scale) in a given key on the different starting notes to hear modal harmony in action. (in the key of C tonic would be CEG, dorian would be DFA, Phrygian would be EGB, and so on)
When you start noticing that these different chords fall into different categories of feeling in given key (tonic [I], dominant [V], subdominant [IV]) and that certain chords want to move to other chords (IV-V-I), then you're really getting somewhere! Just play around on the damn keyboard...
psy
Message 4/14 11-Feb-03 @ 01:41 PM - RE: Dorian Scale
Cheers Psy - thats about as much as I know with regards to theory. But another quick question - well another 2 questions really :-)
1. is that why a C major 7 leads nicely into the F chord within they key of C, cos F and C major 7 use the same notes?
2. I tend to write most of my basslines just using the root and the occassional 3rd. Is that what you do?
Cheers mate.
1. is that why a C major 7 leads nicely into the F chord within they key of C, cos F and C major 7 use the same notes?
2. I tend to write most of my basslines just using the root and the occassional 3rd. Is that what you do?
Cheers mate.
Message 6/14 12-Feb-03 @ 10:40 PM Edit: 12-Feb-03 | 10:43 PM - RE: Dorian Scale
1. c Maj 7 does not have the same notes as F maj. C Maj 7 (I'm pretty sure you mean with a flatted 7th - C, E, G, Bb) leads nicely to Fmaj because of the tension between E and Bb resolving up and down a half step, respectively, to F and A (the Fmaj chord is F,A,C,). The E-Bb interval is known as a tritone interval (augemented 4th or diminished 5th) and wants to resolve to a triad... in this case F-A. You'll probably find some of this if you do a search for harmony lesson.
that's why the V7 (in the key of C, that's G7... G, B D, F) resolves so nicely up to the tonic... the tritone is resolving to a triad.
Probably the most common chord progression (at least in jazz and blues) is the ii-V-I progression (in the key of C, that would be Dmin [d,f,a] to G7 [g,b,d,f] to Cmaj [c,e,g]
Notice that the ii chord is minor (hence the lower case)... as the dorian chord always is. so is a triad built on the phrygian mode, lydian is major, mixolydian is major, aeolean is minor, locrian is minor (a weird, diminished minor)... so these are your tools for interesting basslines. Just stay in the mode of the chord you're currently in in your progression and you can go all over the place and it'll sound pretty cool.
Sorry if I'm rambling, but hopefully some of this will stick
I love to help with harmony because it keeps me brushed up on my lessons So hook me up with any other ???s ya got
psy
that's why the V7 (in the key of C, that's G7... G, B D, F) resolves so nicely up to the tonic... the tritone is resolving to a triad.
Probably the most common chord progression (at least in jazz and blues) is the ii-V-I progression (in the key of C, that would be Dmin [d,f,a] to G7 [g,b,d,f] to Cmaj [c,e,g]
Notice that the ii chord is minor (hence the lower case)... as the dorian chord always is. so is a triad built on the phrygian mode, lydian is major, mixolydian is major, aeolean is minor, locrian is minor (a weird, diminished minor)... so these are your tools for interesting basslines. Just stay in the mode of the chord you're currently in in your progression and you can go all over the place and it'll sound pretty cool.
Sorry if I'm rambling, but hopefully some of this will stick
I love to help with harmony because it keeps me brushed up on my lessons So hook me up with any other ???s ya gotpsy
Message 7/14 14-Feb-03 @ 10:45 AM - RE: Dorian Scale
Cheers psy! I'm gonna have more questions I'm sure after my music lesson on Saturday, so beware!!! :-)
Message 8/14 17-Feb-03 @ 12:57 PM - RE: Dorian Scale
Right, ready psy?!?
Ok I understand the above a bit better now. My music teacher was telling me that to find the relative minor of any key, just look at the 6th note of that scale and start (using the same notes) from there. Right......
as you said in the other post Am is the relative minor of C. Ok, I understand but this is gonna sound like a stupid question but anyway - why do we need to know this? If I decided to write a track in the key of C major then I know I can use triad chords starting from C, so:
c triad = major
d triad = minor
e triad = minor
f triad = major
g triad = major
a traid = minor
b traid = diminished
If Am as the relative mionr to C, uses the same notes (all the white notes)as C major, then hows this gonna give me different chords to use?
Also, all I do to make C major into C minor is to flattern the third and keep all the other notes the same, right? Well then.....
1. Does C minor have the same scale of chords sequence as C major?
2. Would the 6th note of a C minor scale be the relative MAJOR to C minor?
3. I was taught that to find a major scale, you go from the root up by tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone, tone semitone. And as said to make it minor just flattern the third. So the last bit of the A major scale is a semitone step from G# to A right? Why when I play the A minor scale as the relative minor of C major, do I go straight from the G (a wholetone) up to A?
Sorry, I know I have set my questions out badly but hopefully you get the point. Cheers.
Ok I understand the above a bit better now. My music teacher was telling me that to find the relative minor of any key, just look at the 6th note of that scale and start (using the same notes) from there. Right......
as you said in the other post Am is the relative minor of C. Ok, I understand but this is gonna sound like a stupid question but anyway - why do we need to know this? If I decided to write a track in the key of C major then I know I can use triad chords starting from C, so:
c triad = major
d triad = minor
e triad = minor
f triad = major
g triad = major
a traid = minor
b traid = diminished
If Am as the relative mionr to C, uses the same notes (all the white notes)as C major, then hows this gonna give me different chords to use?
Also, all I do to make C major into C minor is to flattern the third and keep all the other notes the same, right? Well then.....
1. Does C minor have the same scale of chords sequence as C major?
2. Would the 6th note of a C minor scale be the relative MAJOR to C minor?
3. I was taught that to find a major scale, you go from the root up by tone, tone, semitone, tone, tone, tone semitone. And as said to make it minor just flattern the third. So the last bit of the A major scale is a semitone step from G# to A right? Why when I play the A minor scale as the relative minor of C major, do I go straight from the G (a wholetone) up to A?
Sorry, I know I have set my questions out badly but hopefully you get the point. Cheers.
Message 10/14 20-Feb-03 @ 04:02 AM - RE: Dorian Scale
sorry dude, it's been a hectic coupla days. I'm exhausted from traveling right now but I promise I will give a proper reply tomorrow. Any attempt tonight would be laughable at best.
peace...
psy
peace...
psy
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