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Forums - Theory / composition / technique
Subject: The Key of House
Original Message Date: 20-Nov-02 @ 10:45 AM - The Key of House
Disclaimer: Please don’t laugh at me for this.
I know you lot talk about using your ears but I have zero musical skills. Well, that’s not strictly true. It’s just that my theory doesn’t stretch to the “circle of fifths” and my chord progressions are quite basic. Anyway, I have reached the conclusion that both Cm and Am are my favourite keys (both the blues scales though). I find Cm to be quite “techno” sounding (kinda old school) and Am to sound quite “magical” sounding. Would you agree or have I totally imagined it? Basically I wanted to know if you guys think that a lot of (proper) house seems to be in both these keys.
Ps- no sniggering at the back there :-)
I know you lot talk about using your ears but I have zero musical skills. Well, that’s not strictly true. It’s just that my theory doesn’t stretch to the “circle of fifths” and my chord progressions are quite basic. Anyway, I have reached the conclusion that both Cm and Am are my favourite keys (both the blues scales though). I find Cm to be quite “techno” sounding (kinda old school) and Am to sound quite “magical” sounding. Would you agree or have I totally imagined it? Basically I wanted to know if you guys think that a lot of (proper) house seems to be in both these keys.
Ps- no sniggering at the back there :-)
Message 21/28 07-Dec-02 @ 03:39 AM - RE: The Key of House
Steve,
I think you missed the reference to This is Spinal Tap. I was so very much joking.
Key really only has relevance to a harmonic series. See, as you go on in your studies, you will learn about things like modes, where if you alter the orders of sharps and flats, you'll be altering the mode, but then you move that mode around on the note series, and it becomes another key. Basic example A minor=C major= another key in Dorian=another key in Lydian=another key in Mixolydian=another key in Phrygian, etc. The thing is that all of those different keys use the exact same set of notes in them. The only difference is the way you approach the harmonic series.
Where you start, where you end and how you get there are what matters. The names of the keys are almost completely irrelevant, especially in instruments with tempered tunings, like pianos, synthesizers, and fretted instruments. Like I said before, you'll start to hear differences when you start playing with real horn players because their instruments are tunes to the harmonic series in a particular key typically, so that when they switch keys, they may sound a little out of tune with the other instruments. This is where key signiture matters, but when you're talking about stuff, with almost completely synthesiszed and sampled sounds, that shit don't matter, cuz the instruments are all using tempered tunings.
Does ANY of this make sense now? Do you now see why your question regarding the key of a particular music form is completely rediculous?
I'm not trying to bash you over the head, just make light of what I find to be a very humorous question.
Gideon also tried to explain it in a more succinct fashion.
Ape
I think you missed the reference to This is Spinal Tap. I was so very much joking.
Key really only has relevance to a harmonic series. See, as you go on in your studies, you will learn about things like modes, where if you alter the orders of sharps and flats, you'll be altering the mode, but then you move that mode around on the note series, and it becomes another key. Basic example A minor=C major= another key in Dorian=another key in Lydian=another key in Mixolydian=another key in Phrygian, etc. The thing is that all of those different keys use the exact same set of notes in them. The only difference is the way you approach the harmonic series.
Where you start, where you end and how you get there are what matters. The names of the keys are almost completely irrelevant, especially in instruments with tempered tunings, like pianos, synthesizers, and fretted instruments. Like I said before, you'll start to hear differences when you start playing with real horn players because their instruments are tunes to the harmonic series in a particular key typically, so that when they switch keys, they may sound a little out of tune with the other instruments. This is where key signiture matters, but when you're talking about stuff, with almost completely synthesiszed and sampled sounds, that shit don't matter, cuz the instruments are all using tempered tunings.
Does ANY of this make sense now? Do you now see why your question regarding the key of a particular music form is completely rediculous?
I'm not trying to bash you over the head, just make light of what I find to be a very humorous question.
Gideon also tried to explain it in a more succinct fashion.
Ape
Message 22/28 07-Dec-02 @ 04:32 PM - RE: The Key of House
see my post regarding entrainment vsti for the filler on that 
ride the energy cycles, don't be a helpless pawn.
ride the energy cycles, don't be a helpless pawn.
Message 24/28 11-Dec-02 @ 12:13 AM - RE: The Key of House
hmmm, i never thought about the intonation of horns or how that relates to the key of the tune. i have had the discussion however with a friend about how alot of pop music is written in e so that it is easier for guitarists to play...f requiring a constant strech of the finger.
i'm not sure how much of that makes sense to me.
what i have noticed in my moronic begings is that it is a good idea to match the key of different parts. usually i write the bassline first, and then build chords and such around that. i don't often think of modes and i wonder if this is because i just think of the "right" keys all the way up and down the keyboard.
stupid, i know, but at least i'm trying.
that said, it does seem that alot of chords don't exactly fit into the kind of house music i'm after. for this reason i have stuck with minors. (usually f sharp minor) however, i think this is limiting and i'm trying to break out of always using minors with blues scale soloing. tonight i will try again to use major chords without sounding cheesy. the minor scales do get a bit depressing after a while.
i'm not sure how much of that makes sense to me.
what i have noticed in my moronic begings is that it is a good idea to match the key of different parts. usually i write the bassline first, and then build chords and such around that. i don't often think of modes and i wonder if this is because i just think of the "right" keys all the way up and down the keyboard.
stupid, i know, but at least i'm trying.
that said, it does seem that alot of chords don't exactly fit into the kind of house music i'm after. for this reason i have stuck with minors. (usually f sharp minor) however, i think this is limiting and i'm trying to break out of always using minors with blues scale soloing. tonight i will try again to use major chords without sounding cheesy. the minor scales do get a bit depressing after a while.
Message 25/28 11-Dec-02 @ 09:16 AM - RE: The Key of House
Pongoid, I don’t get the spinal tap humour bit? Where did that happen? Anyway, like JP said, I’ve read that when writing in the blues scale, guitarists love working in the key of E. Also, that everyone loves playing in the key of C. Why is this if key ain’t important? It can’t be cos the F string is hard to reach, can it? Surely, its more to do with the pitch and how the harmonic frequencies work together?
Which brings me onto my second point. Lets take octave one on my keyboard. Now, when I write bass, it don’t start sounding good till the root note or the 7th note of the key I’m writing in is up at G/Ab/A. Then it just takes on that middley sound. Basically up at say A1, the fundamental frequency is 110 hz. This makes for a nice, thick sound, which is what I’m after.
I understand (a bit) about the points you have raised but don’t feel that my question IS as silly as you are making out. :-)
Which brings me onto my second point. Lets take octave one on my keyboard. Now, when I write bass, it don’t start sounding good till the root note or the 7th note of the key I’m writing in is up at G/Ab/A. Then it just takes on that middley sound. Basically up at say A1, the fundamental frequency is 110 hz. This makes for a nice, thick sound, which is what I’m after.
I understand (a bit) about the points you have raised but don’t feel that my question IS as silly as you are making out. :-)
Message 26/28 11-Dec-02 @ 09:36 AM - RE: The Key of House
no, it really is to do with it being easier to play certain instruments in certain keys.
Message 27/28 11-Dec-02 @ 06:48 PM - RE: The Key of House
OK, so now after 30 years of modern pop music have we learned to like certain keys, and chord progressions because they're easier to play? Because I've had to WORK to avoid writing in "e" (I do it a lot, without consciously recognizing it... it's a pleasant key to write a track in)... I deliberately write in other keys because of this. Have I just learned to like it because of lazy guitarists? DAMN!!! hehehe
This is like the cliche of a new electronic musician working in C because middle C is highlighted in all the SW...
e
This is like the cliche of a new electronic musician working in C because middle C is highlighted in all the SW...
e
Message 28/28 11-Dec-02 @ 08:10 PM - RE: The Key of House
duke used to do stuff like write a piece aroun this one guy's horn that had a fucked up valve that buzzed on one note, to use that buzz in the right places et al.
double (hiphop guy i mention) used to use dr5s.. all that stuff has this funny discordant feel to it.. cos he used to compose by forming patterns on the 'guitar' 6x6 matrix, ie. straight down, diagonals. not in any sort of "key" at all, works more like rising energy, falling energy. he can play the hell out of keys, trombone et c.
i'm saying osmething here, but not saying it more directly than that. cos i'm cryptic at times.
double (hiphop guy i mention) used to use dr5s.. all that stuff has this funny discordant feel to it.. cos he used to compose by forming patterns on the 'guitar' 6x6 matrix, ie. straight down, diagonals. not in any sort of "key" at all, works more like rising energy, falling energy. he can play the hell out of keys, trombone et c.
i'm saying osmething here, but not saying it more directly than that. cos i'm cryptic at times.
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