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Subject: What scale(s) this could be?


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Original Message 1/18             02-Jun-03  @  07:04 PM   -   What scale(s) this could be?

shpongled

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I made a melody with these notes: A#, C, C#, F, G#. It has chords and some single notes. At the moment it's just a short loop (2 bars/measures). I have a friend who plays guitar and we are trying to make it longer... but there is a little problem... we are not sure what scale that could be...... we figured it might be Dorian from A# or Major from C#. I don't want to use Major at this particular track because it's too happy scale. And my friend says he can't play Dorian because it's not a "normal" scale... it's a "mode" or something like that.

So.. my questions are:

1. What other scales are using those notes I mentioned?

2. Is it difficult to make a new guitar melodies with Dorian if you haven't used that scale before?

Ps. I would like to make a track that has Celtic, Blues, Funk or some "exotic" vibe (arabic, indian, turkish etc..). But you can suggest any scale that might fit to those notes.

Big thanks in advance.  



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Message 2/18             02-Jun-03  @  10:34 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

beds

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man i never understand this way of thinking.

use sounds not notes, innit. please fill more info in here coz i don't get it. (not that it matters if i dunna get it)



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Message 3/18             03-Jun-03  @  08:18 AM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

Semi Pro Bro

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So your after a minor scale. Well they have a semi tone gap between the 2nd and 3rd and a semi tone gap between the 5th and 6th notes of the scale. The notes you have shown don't make any traditional scale that I can see.

Most scales have 7 notes or 6 notes if its a blues scale. I can't work outr a scale that would work with the notes you have provided.

The problem is that you only have a semi tone gap between all your notes but I'm sure someone will come onto this thread and say "music has no rules" or "break the rules" or some shit like that so ignore everything I have said.



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Message 4/18             03-Jun-03  @  09:36 AM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

beds

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b flat minor



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Message 5/18             03-Jun-03  @  10:42 AM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

sEMI pRO bRO

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Bb - C - Db - Eb - F - Gb - A - Bb


But Beds, there's no A in his scale?



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Message 6/18             03-Jun-03  @  12:25 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

Mega Hurtz

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I agree. You gotta use the 7th note of a scale in dance music. What's a bassline without the 7th. Rubbish, that's what.



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Message 7/18             03-Jun-03  @  03:19 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

beds

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i didn't say which minor did i? :P

use an Ab innit. which makes it dorian or something. and what do you mean you can't use dorian coz it's a mode? that's just dumb.

bloody guitarists.



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Message 8/18             03-Jun-03  @  03:21 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

Mega Hurtz

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Nah, you gotta flattern the 7th in a minor scale surely? ;-p



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Message 9/18             03-Jun-03  @  03:31 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

beds

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i said a flat, drop.

err, i mean filthy mcnasty err .. radio slave, errr ...



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Message 10/18             03-Jun-03  @  03:57 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

Mega Hurtz

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Huh?



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Message 11/18             03-Jun-03  @  04:25 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

beds

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oh, just guessing.



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Message 12/18             04-Jun-03  @  10:56 AM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

Mega Hurtz

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I'm confused boss. Did I miss something?



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Message 13/18             04-Jun-03  @  01:39 PM     Edit: 04-Jun-03  |  01:41 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

psylichon

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He just told us what notes were in his particular melody. Just because a melody doesn't use all the notes in any particular scale doesn't mean it can't fit into any.

He's basically asking what key or mode he's in, and the answer is every mode that those notes fit into. Initially playing those notes, it sounds minor to me... Bb minor to be exact. But it would also be "correct" in the relative major (4 half-steps up): Db major (or C# major). And taking that logic further to all the modes, all these become feasible:

Db major

Eb dorian

F phrygian

Gb lydian

Ab mixolydian

Bb aeolean (or natural minor... my first impression)

C phrygian


You'll notice the starting notes of all these scales spell out a Db major scale, and all these scales use the same notes. Memorize their order and it will do you well in learning modes and how they're related...

minor scales can get confusing because of the different varieties and the fact that they can stray from the "mode" of the natural minor. If you want a dark sound go for the "harmonic minor" (in Bb: Bb - C - Db - Eb - F - Gb - A - Bb). For a more arabic sound try these:

again, in Bb:
Bb - B - D - Eb - F - Gb - A - Bb

or this one, which is kinda like the Ab phrygian, but starting on the raised 7th of a Bb minor scale I think yer using (hence making it harmonic minorish in Bb, if ya can follow that logic  ):

A - Bb - C - Db - Eb - F - Gb - A

Soloing in this key can be fun, and can lead to many modal wanderings  

Hope I made some sorta sense here.

psy



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Message 14/18             04-Jun-03  @  04:19 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

beds

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i'm was to lazy to type it all out like that.

Bb minor, the one with an Ab is the most obvious one to play. which you did say (A# though? arrrgh!!!!) but bad guitar person said he wouldn't play dorian coz it's not a proper scale. tell him he's wrong and to just play the god damn notes.

then go all jazz and play other notes around it only resolving back to a nice note when someone walks off to the bar.

mmm, yeah.



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Message 15/18             04-Jun-03  @  07:53 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

shpongled

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Thanks for all the answers... especially Psylichon... that was very informative.  

Maybe I didn't explain it very well but Psylichon got it right... I didn't mean that those 5 notes gonna be the only notes in the track.

But anyway... we ended up using Dorian from A# (A#, C, C#, D#, F, G, G#)... and it's going fine.

Beds... my friend isn't "bad" guitar player....
1. He has played guitar only year or two.... so it's all relative.
2. He has never before used Dorian because he doesn't need it in the music he's interested (rock). So it's quite hard to improvise and make new melodies with it, innit. >:P

Psylichon.... could you suggest other scale(s) that might fit with Dorian if we want change the scale at some point in the track? Maybe that Bb minor you mentioned? No?

 



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Message 16/18             05-Jun-03  @  10:21 AM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

beds

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heh, i didn't say he was a bad guitarist matey.  

i just got a thing against guitarists, that's all. they made me deaf. bad guitar people.



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Message 17/18             11-Jun-03  @  05:23 PM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

queasy00

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HMPH!



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Message 18/18             12-Jun-03  @  02:19 AM   -   RE: What scale(s) this could be?

pict

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If you want your music to have a Gaelic flavour use the Mixolydian and Dorian modes.If you improvise with these modes using the correct rhythms it will sound relatively convincing.

Listen to pipe(both uillean and Highland) and fiddle music to get the rhythms for the fast stuff.For slow airs listen to Clarsach music and Orain luaidh from the Hebrides and Sean Nos singing from Ireland for the real feel and nuance.

Here's a link to some mp3s to let you hear the genuine article

http://www.cranfordpub.com/mp3s/

This site has lots of tunes in abc format,midi files,and sheet music.

http://www.thesession.org/tunes/

This site has mp3s and sheet music of masters on the feadag(tin whistle) and flute with discussions of the individuals' style.

http://www.rogermillington.com/tunetoc/index.html



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