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Subject: Semitone settings = layered notes?

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Original Message 1/17 20-Jan-04 @ 04:05 AM - Semitone settings = layered notes?

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Hello, I am not a musician so this may seem elementary; I am wondering if you were to say program an analogue synth so that oscillator 2 is set at negative say .... 7. If you were to play one single note, are you really in a sense playing two notes? Is it entirely equivalent to playing C and F notes simultaneous? Ok, so it is a primitive question but please humor me with an answer.
Cheers

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Message 2/17 20-Jan-04 @ 10:25 AM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

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yes basicaly cos the keypress results in two tones being triggered as if you were hitting two keys at once tuned differently - it's the same

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Message 3/17 21-Jan-04 @ 01:30 AM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

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Thanks K.
So is that how a lot of Techno/Detroit Techno is produced. Do the non Musician producers of Electronic music build chords by constucting patches that have 2 or three oscilators programmed to different semitones. Connect the patch to lets say a Doepfer Maq 16/3 type signal with lets say only one line dedicated to sending on off signals as notes. Than basicaly you are playing chord progressions triggered by only one note? Do you think some people do it this way?

CM

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Message 4/17 21-Jan-04 @ 03:13 AM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

psylichon

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Yes they do, but not necessarily because it's "easier" to do it that way, but because it imparts a certian vibe to it. Traditional harmony would term it a "constant chord structure progression" because the chords aren't following the notes of the scale of the key in which they are playing... they stay at a constant interval even if that will render one of the notes "out of key".... big in jazz and RnB. You can do it with a synth program, or with two fingers

psy

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Message 5/17 21-Jan-04 @ 10:14 AM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

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mebbe the sound you're thinking of is a sampled chord which is then played up and down the keyboard range as a sample - the pitch goes up and down of course by semitones, bu the sound is totaly different to playing the actual chords up and down using normal playing - mebbe that's the sound you mean? - playing a sample chord as a single-trigger note sample is a common old-skool dance-music technique

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Message 6/17 22-Jan-04 @ 02:00 AM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

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psylichon,

That's exactly what I was asking about!
Now this "constant chord structure progression" Is exactly what I was asking about.
What I was leading to was that fact that I do know the basic basic Fundamentals involving Major, Natural minor, Melodic M, and Harmonic minor etc. But not being a musician I was confused as to whether constructing patches by having Osc 2 set at say +5 and a third Osc maybe on +7 would be a "legal" manuever? Meaning, I realized that if I planned to create a sequence constructed of single note's played in a melodic pattern that there would clearly be notes not in the particular scale.
So in essence Psy, you actually touched on the subject I was leading to.
Now, with the information you have given me it seems that the best way to handle this is to use only two oscilators, and if the pattern sounds ok, than it is ok. And that I should be concerned, keep it in mind (theory), but that NOT adhearing solely to the theory is accepted and possibly recommended in popular music today. What do you think?
CM

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Message 7/17 22-Jan-04 @ 08:26 AM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

psylichon

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well, I think in most mainstream music (and even most music we call "underground"), people come to expect cetain things, and one of those things is that most of the notes in your piece fall into a classified group (a scale)... too many "off notes" and it becomes more atonal. Not bad, but a different crowd of listeners, to be sure.

if you want to experiment with this, I would just make your synth patch with one oscillator, do a melody, then copy it to another track routed to the same synth channel/patch. transpose that copied track up or down whatever you want. then you can hear how it sounds in your tune, and move notes up or down as needed in sections where you feel it's going too far out of the key, ya dig?

doing it with synth programming, you will be stuck in your constant chord structure unless you somehow automate the pitch of one or both of the oscillators.

maybe that's what you want? I dunno.... [shrug]

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Message 8/17 22-Jan-04 @ 02:07 PM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

craig

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The one thing the theory professors always fail to teach...

If it sounds good, it is good. Even if it breaks the rules.

Theory is a guide, not a law.

-Craig

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Message 9/17 22-Jan-04 @ 04:28 PM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

dt regular

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Craig.......shut up! If I hear "there are no rules" one more bloody time on this website, I'm going to top myself. Of course there are bloody rules within different styles of music.............jesus!!!!!!

CM - just use your ears mate....oh shit, sorry.........................

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Message 10/17 22-Jan-04 @ 06:33 PM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

craig

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Message 11/17 23-Jan-04 @ 12:13 AM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

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Well done dancetech peoples.
I will half to play around with these concepts however clearly I like the idea from psylichon. That seems a brilliant way to control the harmony with a very easy way to be able to control the amount of the amount of bad notes. I will drop a question or two more here in the future, outstanding help overall.

Cheers
CM

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Message 12/17 29-Jan-04 @ 06:11 PM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

younger brother

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If you have a sync function (btw.. is 'ring modulator' another name for it? I dunno why that came into my mind) in your synth then it might be different thing... at least when I tune OSC_2 plus or minus 7 semis and use sync I can play melodies without sounding 'out of tune'/'out of scale'/'atonal?(just learned a term)........ maybe a bit offtopic... have a nice day.

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Message 13/17 29-Jan-04 @ 06:27 PM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

craig

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Sync and ringmod are not the same thing... What sync does is slaves the start of a cycle from one oscillator to another oscillator.. So what you can have is a wave that "restarts" in the middle of a cycle. Ring modulation is entirely different.

-Craig

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Message 14/17 30-Jan-04 @ 10:36 AM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

milan

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yeah... sync has no effect on the pitch, its more for timbral variation.

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Message 15/17 30-Jan-04 @ 09:09 PM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

craig

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And has an important effect on FM too.

-Craig

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Message 16/17 30-Jan-04 @ 09:37 PM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

milan

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really? hmm.... i *think* i used that once... gotta try it again then

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Message 17/17 14-Feb-04 @ 09:45 PM - RE: Semitone settings = layered notes?

BJT

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I can't cruze by this site without writing something can I...

MC keep in mind that be detuning OSC1 by +5, and OSC2 by +7, the perceived sound
will be detuned by approx +6.

What gets me is that, by detuning certain notes in a scale, it make the scale progression sound completely different, and if you use synthetic sounds, it doesn't sound "off" unlike a detuned piano. I guess more like a guitar, no one notices detuned notes in a solo.

Two detuned sine oscillators is the same as one sine oscillator modulated by a LFO oscillating at their frequency difference.

But two detuned saw-tooth's....just sounds wicked.

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