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Subject: Reason's Audio Quality


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Original Message 1/18             15-Nov-04  @  02:44 PM   -   Reason's Audio Quality

Dominic

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Why does the sound engine in Reason sound so wack. When you build loops and export them from Reason into Logic, they sound fine. Am I right in thinking that Reason doesn't have as good a sound engine as stuff like Logic and Cubase. Or am I way off the mark? Reason def sounds a bit thin when one is working in it. Amazing program though. Lovin the Dr Rez and re-drum.



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Message 2/18             16-Nov-04  @  12:19 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

mcc>

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i think you have a point.
whether it's complaint enough for propellerheads to try to make some advances in this department or not...i haven't a clue>

i find myself trying to compensate via eQing instruments and later in mastering....but yes...a little thin / cold at times........one might say VERY digital.



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Message 3/18             16-Nov-04  @  09:29 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

Dominic

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Yer, I reckon they should sort this out and if it means that we have to pay another £100 for the package then its worth it. I mean you play a kick out of the included house kits and it sounds like a fisherprice toy when Reason plays it back but if you loop and export that kit in 24 bit into Logic, it sounds Phat and sits in the mix beautifully.

Maybe this is why when Liam Howlett claims he did everything in Reason, he probably had to export it all into Pro Tools or something else to produce it.

There is no way that he did that album in just Reason.



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Message 4/18             16-Nov-04  @  09:36 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

Influx

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I always thought it sounded good when I was overdriving the reason outputs. get the clip lights showin and all is solid!

then, of course, dont look at the waveform when you export to a sequencer 

or just rewire from the start?



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Message 5/18             16-Nov-04  @  05:17 PM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

Dominic

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I could rewire yes but I'm still on Logic 5.5 on the PC so can only route through audio. I'm scared off clipping!



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Message 6/18             17-Nov-04  @  05:41 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

Humble Granny

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Is Reason a good bit of software because I was thinking of getting it as all I'm using is Fruity Loops at the moment?

And whats the best way to learn how to use Cubase because I've got it but find it to be quite complicated and have lost the manual?



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Message 7/18             17-Nov-04  @  11:47 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

k

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i LOVE reason, and 2.5 is just better. Of course, REALLY, it comes into it's own when rewired (2) with SX, I dont have the pleasure as a PC logic user of full rewire sadly, but as a rack of gear it's superb... not that keen on the sequencer tho myself.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 8/18             17-Nov-04  @  12:24 PM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

Dominic

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Yer the Reason sequencer is a fiddle to work with. I'm finding that its better to build drums in Reason then export the loops as audio files and import into Logic. Then I can use my vsti's for the music bit.

THINGS I LOVE ABOUT REASON 2.5

The best software package for building pro sounding drum tracks.

Re-drum is superb.

Dr Rex is even better.

The compressor is wicked. You can pump your loops like a demon.

THINGS I HATE ABOUT REASON 2.5

The sequencer is a pain.

The sound engine sounds crap. Too thin and quiet.

The fact that you only have tone/velocity and channel mutes on 3 re-drum channels. This is silly as I want to be able to control sample start, tone and mutes on all 10 re-drum channels.



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Message 9/18             17-Nov-04  @  06:58 PM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

Influx

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"lost the manual"

its available as pdf. In fact, its installed with the program.

SX doesnt even come with a manual 



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Message 10/18             17-Nov-04  @  11:14 PM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

k

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yeah but it's the same with ANYTHING from Tamla vocals to whatever... drive it, make it hum a bit

hey... ORION, it hardly gets mentioned but it's bloody good, new version Platignum is out btw

Project5 is not bad at all either and they both take 3rd party VST/DX synths

there is something about Reasons all-in-one ness tho, but i'd always want to use it rewire2'd.

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 11/18             18-Nov-04  @  02:46 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

Humble Granny

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Cheers, I have the Cubase manual but these things are a bitch to read through



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Message 12/18             25-Nov-04  @  08:11 AM     Edit: 25-Nov-04  |  08:14 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

welder (aka. ragnarok)

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Thing is, I did mixdowns/audio exports for the same song from Reason and SX as well (via rewire), and they sounded very similar.

Two things. First, reason's sound generators are designed in pretty functional way compared to "real HW", or VST plugs like ALbino, FM7 etc. While the later usually has several stages of FX after the actual synthesizer engine (reverb, chorus, phaser, distortion, whatever) to make its sound as full (phat, complex, etc) as it can, Reason's synthesizers (Subtractor, Malstrom) are just stop at the output filter. So to be able to compare, one has to add some FX, or even chain a subtractor into a maelstrom. Even as the gui tries to resemble to normal hardware, they should better be used as building blocks in synthedit or reaktor.

Also, the mixer in reason is really a different animal than for eg. logic's mixer. It might sound weaker for the individual channels, but in return you can turn up the volume on individual channels as hard as you need without clipping (provided that master volume is not se too high). This way the mixer "divides" the headroom provided by the 64 bit calculation between the channels in a more dynamic way, which will probably not sound better or worse, its just easier to use.

cheers,
Welder (Rags)


ps: surely the troubles with early protools implementations (and ppl. overreacting them) caused many to think that like with analog, there can be fundamental differences between digital audio and digital audio, but I belive today, there can be not much difference between software and software, as far as mixing is concerned, because you really have to fuck things up to lose fidelity with 64 bit or even 64 bit floating point calculations, which are the standards today (sx, nuendo, reason, traction, live, fruity).



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Message 13/18             09-Jan-05  @  12:25 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

knowa

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Hey DT! I haven't been here in ages. Happy New Year everybody.

I think the "problem" with Reason's sound quality is just about volume. For some reason, Reason's output is just quiet. Turn up your mixer and any sample triggered in Reason will sound that same as if it were played in Logic/Cubase/etc. I think it is just a fact that if you take a file into any software which plays it back sample by sample (i.e. sample accurate) you will get the exact same file at the output.

With the Scream and RV7000 in 2.5, decent mixes within Reason seem possible. All the mp3s on my 7161.com page were mixed in Reason 2.5 and recorded as a stereo wav file while rewired into in Live. I think they sound decent, although maybe a bit sleepy for the DT crowd...

Best,

knowa



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Message 14/18             15-Feb-05  @  04:18 PM     Edit: 15-Feb-05  |  04:20 PM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

johnny.peebles

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I think what might be missing is some mid range EQ instead of just top & bottom, that may help,

But i def know where your coming from here Dominic. Im finding it impossible to have a bass kick sounding so fat n powerfull without overdriving it and sending the levels into the red.
But im gonna try using Logic and see whats what ,as i have been using Reason to mix & master the whole track.( 2 tracks on web page to hear what i mean). I have Cubase SX 2 but for some reason at the moment it aint working and im canny figure out whats wrong. ( it just wont load up)

I suppose its all trial and error untill you find what works for you, but i reckon some mid range EQ would def help some.

Johnny



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Message 15/18             16-Mar-05  @  11:57 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

george

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they all have a different sound - i currently know a young producer who is using reason (only) to wild effect but its hard to get the gain on an overall mix in 2.5 reason - he uses the idr waves to push the levels up afterwards - get your sx or logik in rewire mode - sx is generaly less processor heavy (on pc versions) so you can do more faster on the fly through cubase in rewire - logik is the one in my opinion though - if it will rewire on your p.c. or mac 2reliable effect try it - logik seems to be the best mastering tool - i have just had a fiddle with the nu reason version and to be fair the audio sounds crisp and the nu modules look and sound very useful - the mastering efx and eq all look practical and well thought out (and by that i mean they are more like thier hardware counterparts to use - but with the ease of windows - the combinator synthtool is a polysix on angel dust -

i know some very sucessfull producers who gain deep respect for thier work using reason 2.5 in rewire with cubase - personaly i think its a case of getting used to what you use - i also know some other producers who have rocked house scenes globaly for years using 95 windows all the oldest vst synths and waves stuff and a range of plug ins they have got used to (and mastered) over the years

heavy kiks may be found in the dublab redrum and hip hop kits in reason factory bank - try pitching them down or layering them



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Message 16/18             16-Mar-05  @  03:24 PM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

k

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heh... Love your profile-page kitlist george  

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!



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Message 17/18             02-Jun-05  @  04:41 PM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

fooyong

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What does everyone think about the sound quality now that Reason 3.0 is out?



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Message 18/18             04-Aug-05  @  07:30 AM   -   RE: Reason's Audio Quality

mcc>

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if i ever have a problem with the sound of a tool....such as reason.....i always figure it's something i'm not doing quite right.
but taking a little time to push a sound through some of the effects seems to make a difference.
i've always loved reason and enjoy rewiring it through ableton live.
i've never rewired it through sx yet.....

as for sound.....i think 3.0 sounds pretty amazing....especially when you consider all that it does.
if there's one device i could not part with......it would be this.



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