Forums - Theory / composition / technique
Subject: what scale is this? - Pt_2
Original Message 1/29 15-Apr-00 @ 08:53 AM - what scale is this? - Pt_2
Message 2/29 15-Apr-00 @ 01:32 PM - what scale is this? - Pt_2
well... couldnt do it... tried every conceiveable html variant i know to make form input objects 'size', no luck... the only way would be to have a permenent horizontal scrolling page here... or make the whole site wider, in which case it'd fuck up on 800x600 small screens
Message 3/29 15-Apr-00 @ 01:33 PM - RE: what scale is this? - Pt_2
Well, whoever told you that didn't know shit - each note has 3 possible names and you don't have to use one all the time. For example 'A#' is also B flat and also C double flat (you can have double sharps and flats). The reason for this is as follows, as an example I'll use the F major scale.
So you know F major has one black key, but is it A# or Bb? It's Bb - F,G,A,Bb,C,D,E. This is because you don't use the B in the scale, but you do use A so you can't sharpen it in the key sig. Note the continuity in the scale - you never 'miss' a letter out. In diatonic scales you must always stick to this continuity and that's why there are both sharps and flats. Also you can't mix sharps and flats in the same key signature, its either all sharps, all flats or neither.
If we look at your G# major scale, you miss out the A and the E and repeat C and G. It sounds the same as a G# major scale but it isn't
You wrote - G#, Bflat, C, C#, D#, F, G, G#
The real scale - G#,A#,B#,C#,D#,E#,F#(G#).
See how its continuous, no letters repeated and no mixture of sharps and flats. BUT that's a lot of sharps in the key sig (7) and it's fiddly to work with so as a convention instead of calling it G# major we write it as Ab major (4 flats), sounds exactly the same but easier to write and understand;
Ab major: Ab,Bb,C,Db,Eb,F,G,(Ab).
In the same way, E# major (E#,Fx,Gx,A#,B#,Cx,Dx,E# x=double sharp) is exactly the same as F major, but we don't write it that way because it's more effort and harder to understand.
It's hard to explain things and not sound patronising ;-) if I come across that way it's not intentional, just trying to clarify things.
Message 4/29 15-Apr-00 @ 01:54 PM - RE: what scale is this? - Pt_2
The exceptions are the keys of F# major and Gb major - both have 6 sharps/flats repectively so there is no reason to choose one over the other, depends on whether you like sharps more than flats I suppose.
Message 5/29 15-Apr-00 @ 03:55 PM - RE: what scale is this? - Pt_2
"You wrote - G#, Bflat, C, C#, D#, F, G, G#
The real scale - G#,A#,B#,C#,D#,E#,F#(G#)."
Always remember the leading note has 2 b sharpened, but u knew that already coz u got it right when u spelt it enharmonicaly differently....
Right, u've been a busy fella havent u K!?!?! Well, dont worry with the amount of keys on the picture, cant u scrap it alltogether & make a new 1 that looks more like a keyboard, i.e: enabling the black notes 2 light up orange-it'd realy help. The scrolling page ting would prolly b the best thing if there's no way of havin more then 1 keyboard picture in each post, that'd help 4 examples....
K, since u sayd the other thread was gettin 2 long, u'd better go bak & fix what u wrote in yer last entry so no1 gets confused....basicaly u wrote that the major scale is constructed like this:
"like major Keys/scales are pretty simple to work out... Just start on a Given note, and walk up the keyboard always using the same spacing:
tone- tone - tone - tone / tone - tone - tone - semitone"
U say u listen 2 Debussy but I'd leave the whole tone scales out 4 the mo if u dont want 2 confuse any1-besides if u immagin your scale started on C4 it'd end on Eflat5 wouldnt it? These scales (if u dont include the semitone u put in at the end) have a particular spacey quality (good 4 sci-fi music...) coz the intervals are symmetric and our ears are tuned 2 the diatonic scales so it sounds new.
This is how OUR major scale is constructed: (K, what's the tag 4 a break??? is it this?:
TONE-TONE-SEMITONE-TONE-TONE-TONE-SEMITONE
Immagine we're startin on C. Between C & D there r 2 semitones, now think of the distance between E & F...no black note is there? Same with B & C, just a semitone in between-innit.
Oh...& this bit:
"RELATIVE minor scales... knowing the RELATIVE MINOR KEY to a Given MAJOR KEY is cool... and simple....
The relative Minor to a Major... the MAJOR starts on the 3rd of the Minor... so you gotta count back the first 3 notes of a minor scale backwards: - semitone - tone - tone, (the begining of the Relative-minor scale backwards) to find the relative minor key of a given MAJOR key"
Errrrrrrrr, "so you gotta count back the first 3 notes of a minor scale backwards" well, it's your website...but howsabout this?
If your piece is in a Major key, ie: the pattern I've just described, then using it's Relative minor can instantly bring a "dark" feel 2 your choon. The notes of your new key are "relative" 2 those of the original key, yet u r now in a minor, more somber sounding mode. Think of C Major, sharpen the 5th and harmony's drawin u in2 A minor. Basicaly, K, tellin'em 2 work out the relative major "from" the minor is no use is it?? How r they gonna learn how 2 figure out key sigatures? the reason I braught up the whole realtive minor thing is coz if u could easily understand the scale from this perspective: Gminor is Bflat Major's relative minor. U gotta start somewhere, start with understanding Bflat Major, the seccond flat scale u'd ever learn...add a "leading" note 2 "draw" the harmony towords g minor....
I sort of was hoping 4 a more "interactive" process...I can "tel" u all of this but if u tryed it out 4 yourselfs, step by step at least we'd b sure u all understand what the building blocks r....there's no point in me gettin in2 Trance/garage/hardcore chord progressions if u havent even digested the 1st chunck-is there?
So, FEED BACK please. & no silly bizznizz, coz I'm REALY busy these days I've got 14 000 words and "some such useless meaningless crap.... " (as it was so encouragingly put) 2 do in the next few weeks. This post is all 4 a good causa but if people start takin the piss I wont waist my time.
Message 6/29 15-Apr-00 @ 04:19 PM - RE: what scale is this? - Pt_2
Message 7/29 15-Apr-00 @ 04:19 PM - RE: what scale is this? - Pt_2
Message 8/29 15-Apr-00 @ 04:21 PM - RE: what scale is this? - Pt_2
Message 10/29 15-Apr-00 @ 09:00 PM - RE: what scale is this? - Pt_2
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