Latest articles added/updated

USB Audio Interface roundup March 2020 (8 x Mic Pre's)

Here's our March 2020 roundup of USB audio interfaces featuring 8 microphone pre-amps under 500 Euros....

Making Reggae & Dub Music Tutorials

Here's our ongoing & very popular tutorial series on making Reggae music. These videos are done in Logic but they apply to any DAW....

Record your band in a rehearsal studio super cheap!

Here's the complete step by step procedure to make good quality demos of your band in a rehearsal studio on a super cheap budget....

Build A Super Budget Home Recording Setup (System 2)

Here's another complete home studio setup, including the computer, DAW music software & all other accessories on a SUPER LOW budget. This system will allow you to produce up to release-quality music....

Build A Super Budget Home Recording Setup (System 1)

Here's a complete home studio setup, including the computer, DAW music software & all other accessories on a SUPER LOW budget. This system will allow you to produce up to release-quality music....

Garageband for iPad (iOS) tutorials

All our Garageband for iPad (iOS) tutorial videos. This playlist will be added to as we create more videos. It contains all our tutorial & other related GB iPad/iOS video content...

Install OSX Catalina & Latest Logic Pro X 10.4.8 on an old Mac Pro!

Dosdude1's super free patching software allows you to easily install OSX Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave and Catalina on older macs. In this video I install OSX Catalina on my 8-core 2008 Mac Pro & the latest 10.4.8 Logic Pro X & everything works 1...

Make a song in Logic Pro X (Knocking on Heaven's Door)

A complete walkthrough showing the procedure to make a demo backing around a guitar/vocal song in Logic Pro X. Includes songwriter song-selling tips. THIS IS A LONG VIDEO! so please don't bother if you just want to complain about that! For noobs ...

Logic Pro X tutorials: Audio Tracks & Audio Recording

Tutorial series on Audio Tracks & Audio recording in Logic Pro X. This series covers everything for beginners & intermediate users and contains plenty of multitrack recording theory & explanations about many aspects of audio recording & technique....

USB Audio Interface Roundup (2 in x 2 out) April 2019

USB audio interfaces with 2 inputs & 2 outputs. These are your choices April 2019 for under £500GBP...

15 & 18 inch Bass Cabinet From Celestion UK

Plans to build a 15" or 18" bass cabinet for playing out (From Celestion UK)....

15" Bass Reflex Cabinet

Plans to build a 15" bass reflex cabinet for playing out....

15" Bass-Scoop Rear Horn Loaded Cabinet

Plans to build a 15" bass-scoop rear horn-loaded cabinet for playing out....

15" Celestion W-Bin bass cabinet

Plans to build a 15" Celestion W-Bin bass cabinet for playing out....

2 X 10

Plans to build a 2 X 10" Midrange & High Frequency Cabinet for playing out....

2 X 12

Plans to build a 2 X 12" Angled Mid-range Cabinet for playing out......

2 X 15

Plans to build a 2 X 15" full-range modular cabinet for playing out...

2 X 15" Folded Bass-Bin For Modular Systems

Plans to build a 2 X 15" folded bass-bin cabinet for playing out......

3 Way Reflex Full-Range Cabinet

Plans to build a 3-Way reflex full-range starter cabinet for playing out....

4 x 10" Full-Range Cabinet

Plans to build a 4 x 10" full-range cabinet cabinet for playing out....

AUDIO-STUFF PART-1

all about sound, and how it applies to making music & gear in your setup like synths & mixers, s/w, samplers, p.a, FX etc.... check it out ...

AUDIO-STUFF PART-2

Seconds out.. round 2... How all that audio/sound theory stuff applies to your kit... Stuff like mixers, s/w, synths, samplers, p.a, FX etc...

Build A Super Budget Home Recording Setup (System 1)

Here's a complete home studio setup, including the computer, DAW music software & all other accessories on a SUPER LOW budget. This system will allow you to produce up to release-quality music....

Build A Super Budget Home Recording Setup (System 2)

Here's another complete home studio setup, including the computer, DAW music software & all other accessories on a SUPER LOW budget. This system will allow you to produce up to release-quality music....

Cerwin Vega 18

Plans to build the Cerwin Vega 18" Earthquake B36 for playing out....

d.i.y. synth repair

basic tips on keeping your gear running.. soldering, troubleshooting.. w/o the professional repair bill....

EAW BH 882 Dual 18

Plans to build the EAW BH 882 dual 18" subwoofer for playing out...

Grooves & Patterns 1

Article about making patterns and beats for various styles... This applies to drum & synth & all styles coss it's about time-signature & tempo crossovers etc......

Guitar Pickup wiring diagrams

If your pickup/control wiring is broke or disconnected, here's some diagrams showing how they should be wired...

High Frequency Large Horn Cabinet

Plans to build a high frequency large horn cabinet for playing out....

Let's build some scoops!

Nice building a scoop bass bin article with images contributed by Paul C....

LOGIC - Sync With Rebirth

Yup.. how to sync Emagic Logic to rebirth - with piccies......

Making Reggae & Dub Music Tutorials

Here's our ongoing & very popular tutorial series on making Reggae music. These videos are done in Logic but they apply to any DAW....

Martin 1 X 15 Horn

Plans to build a Martin 1 X 15 horn for playing out....

Microphones & using mics

article about microphones, using mics & mic technique...

MIXERS & MIXING

Lots of stuff about mixers, mixing-tips, sub-groups, & non-subgroup recording with a PC etc.......

Mixers & Mixing - Split console [video]

Dancetech Mixers tutorial in video format - this one is about how a Split-console style mixer works...

Mixers and Mixing - SX2442FX Walk-thru [Video]

A full-length video walk-thru of Behringer's popular SX2442FX mixer. Full explanations are given thru-out. Beginners can learn alot about mixer protocol, terms and theory by watching this....

Mixing for beginners - Some thoughts

A short essay on mixing advice for noobs. If you are new to mixing, check this out before you pile in!...

On The Busses !!

A newbie page about 'the buss' - what it is & what it does...relevent to all sorts of studio stuff like mixing & fx & PC etc....

PA page for noobs

All about PA and speaker boxes including making your own cabinets with plans!...

PATCHBAYS R US

All about Patchbay's, and how to make your own cheap !!........

REAL AUDIO

All about using RA Audio, and how to set it up & code it to stream in realtime for your webpages, with or without paying for RA-Server s/w on your IP's server machine ...

Record your band in a rehearsal studio super cheap!

Here's the complete step by step procedure to make good quality demos of your band in a rehearsal studio on a super cheap budget....

Recording Senser Live @ Underworld - [video]

Video showing recording SENSER live at the Underworld in Camden, London using Alesis HD24 & Mackie 16 channel mixer. This recordingw as released as an official DVD by the band....

Roland Aira lineage

Roland began the AIRA product range about 5 years ago & have been adding to the system ever since. Here is a full explanation of the entire AIRA derived range, both original & subsequent releases, with an explanation of how it all connects and the features of each unit in the range....

SPEAKERS AMPS & HEADPHONES

You don't have to spend loads on studio 'Monitor' speakers for a home system.... Check it out........

What equipment to setup a budget home studio?

This video shows you a super-value bundle of equipment to setup a complete home-studio with any Mac or Windows computer....

SETTING A BASSTATION

How to setup channels, & dump & load data plus midi controller numbers for the pots to use as a controller for Novations Basstation ...

PC SETUPS - STEREO SOUNDCARD

more stuff about using a PC with a stereo audio device to record microphone over s/w backing & to record with mic over s/w & outboard backing. basic config's to work properly....

SBLive & APS drivers

SB Live is a popular card, here's some stuff from 'm' about the APS drivers running the Creative SBLive card. (soundblaster live)...

USB Audio Interface Roundup (2 in x 2 out) April 2019

USB audio interfaces with 2 inputs & 2 outputs. These are your choices April 2019 for under £500GBP...

USB Audio Interface roundup March 2020 (8 x Mic Pre's)

Here's our March 2020 roundup of USB audio interfaces featuring 8 microphone pre-amps under 500 Euros....

Assign hardware transport controls to Logic Pro

Part of our Logic Pro tutorial series - This chapter shows how to assign transport buttons on controller keyboards to Logic's transport functions....

Control Transport functions in Cubase SX with your keyboard

How to setup Cubase SX to receive transport commands from master keyboard key presses. Handy if your master keyboard isn't so near your computer!...

Cubase SX for beginners - Part 1 - [video]

New Cubase SX tutorial series in video format for beginners. Part-1 - Intro to the arrange-page area - adjusting grid display - working with Snap & Quantise on the arrange-page grid etc....

Cubase SX for beginners - Part 2 - [video]

New Cubase SX tutorial series in video format for beginners - Part-2 - Intro to the Key Edit area (piano edit) - working with Snap & Quantise & tools - Notes & controllers. ...

Cubase SX for beginners - Part 3 - [video]

New Cubase SX tutorial series in video format for beginners - Part-3 - Intro to the Drum Map area (drum edit) - working with Snap & Quantise & tools - multiple sound sources, layering, routing, key re...

Cubase SX for beginners - Part 4 - [video]

New Cubase SX tutorial series in video format for beginners - Part-4 - The Arpache arpeggiator - Discover arpeggio work with the included SX arpggiator. Full explanation of useage, techniques, tips & tricks....

CUBASE VST CONTROL _1 - MIDI CONTROL

Article for newbies showing how to setup & add/edit controllers in Steinberg's Cubase VST - do stuff like volume fades, auto-pan's, filter sweeps etc. - It's a big load cos there's alot of pic's....

Cubase/VST Drum-Map - how to make one

The title says it all.. How to make a drum-map in Steinbergs Cubase & VST to programme your samplers drums, drum-box drums, and your s/w drums or sampler... and even drums from all 3 together in the s...

CUSTOM DRUM SAMPLE BEATS IN CAKEWALK

You can add custom drum sample sounds to beef up your midi drum beat patterns, or create complete custom drum patterns out of raw samples... without adding a s/w or hardware sampler !!!.... Here's how...

DFreqTIP – Automatically Empty the Cakewalk Picture Cache

DFreqTIP – Automatically Empty the Cakewalk Picture Cache...

DFreqTIP - Encode Your Sonar MP3s For Free!

Mores tips, this time on encoding mp3's in Sonar free....

FXpansion BFD and Roland V-drums

a full video diary of an afternoon messing about with BFD drum software and a Roland V-drums set, inc' a look at FXpansion's new 'Jazz & Funk' BFD expansion pack...

Garageband for iPad (iOS) tutorials

All our Garageband for iPad (iOS) tutorial videos. This playlist will be added to as we create more videos. It contains all our tutorial & other related GB iPad/iOS video content...

Install OSX Catalina & Latest Logic Pro X 10.4.8 on an old Mac Pro!

Dosdude1's super free patching software allows you to easily install OSX Sierra, High Sierra, Mojave and Catalina on older macs. In this video I install OSX Catalina on my 8-core 2008 Mac Pro & the latest 10.4.8 Logic Pro X & everything works 1...

LOGIC - Instruments CC numbers

CC numbers for various Emagic Logic synths, plus a couple of 3rd party synths...

LOGIC - DRUM MAPS & STEPEDIT

All about creating drum map for use in Emagic's Logic, this same technique allows you to create step-sequencing HYPER-EDIT setups for super drum and controller inputting and creative works !...

LOGIC - Environment Tutorial

Moron-Speak version of how the Whole Environment Protocol works in Emagic's: 'Logic Audio' - plus some other Logic Tips, (rambling version :)...

LOGIC - ENVIRONMENT_1

Logic Audio from Emagic is super-powerful, part_1 Article - how the Environment hierarchy works; Environment, Layers, Objects - and how to import individual instruments - with example images...

LOGIC - Input Monitoring

How to get external hardware gear into your Logic Audio s/w mix using a multi-in rack, and add realtime fx, record from inputs etc. How to add monitor fx you can hear while you play/record....

LOGIC - Mixer Automation 1

Yes! - the wonders of automated mixng in Logic audio is just so damned easy! checkout this first page about automating EVERYTHING in your Logic mix!... (old version Logic - pre 'track automation')...

LOGIC - Mixer Automation 2

A supplement for the main 'Logic - Mix automation' article - Extra tips like adding a sweep eq automation & identifying controller automation numbers etc (older Logic, before track-automation)...

Logic - rows of notes

how to use the quick 'Copy midi events' function to quickly create rows of perfect 16th, 32nd, 64th etc notes... make cymbel crescendo's etc real fast!...

LOGIC - Tracks & Objects

More Logic Audio mayhem - another look at the environment based protocol, this time thru the track headers and their assignments & data flow. The more you understand how this works in logic, the easie...

Logic 5 track automation tips

a mini article we'll add to from time to time offering some tips on using the automation for newbies....

Logic Pro For Beginners - Chapter-1 - [video]

Apple Logic Pro Free Tutorials for beginners - Chapter-1 - The Arrange-Page. This is a general introduction to the Logic working default Arrange-Page area, plus an introduction to the workflow, various component ...

Logic Pro For Beginners - Chapter-2 - [video]

Apple Logic Pro Free Tutorials for beginners - Chapter-2 - More Arrange-Page including: Customising appearance, toolsboxes & tool selection techniques, track headers, screensets, folder-tracks, hiding-tracks, key...

Logic Pro For Beginners - Chapter-3 - [video]

Apple Logic Pro Free Tutorials for beginners - Chapter-3 - More Arrange-Page including: The signal-flow, relationship between record-tracks, inspector-column & library, channel-strip settings, busses, grouping an...

Logic Pro For Beginners - Chapter-4 - [video]

Apple Logic Pro Free Tutorials for beginners - Chapter-4 - Piano-Roll edit - Everything to do with piano-roll, including tools, snap, grid, quantise, groove- templates, creating midi drum-patterns from audio drum-loops, tips & techniques, hyperdraw & ...

Logic Pro X - Drummer Tracks + Drum Kit Designer

Full tutorial on the whole theory and workings of the Drummer Tracks pattern/playing generator (The 'Drummers') - Working with stereo & multiple-out 'Drum Kit Designer' drum-kits on Drummer Tracks, Full details of how all the multiple outputs work on...

Logic Pro X - Electronic Drummer Tracks + Drum Machine Designer

The full SP on Electronic drummer tracks and the Drum Machine Designer, including tips & tricks. Absolutely full tutorial for beginner upwards....

Logic Pro X - Factory Patch Location

Logic Pro X now puts the factory channel-strip patch locations in a new disk location. How to save your created and edited channel-strips into proper factory category folders (synth/bass, synth/lead, synth/strings, audio/voice, etc)...

Logic Pro X - intro

Intro to the new Logic Pro X - what has changed? layout of the new logic, basic & advanced mode etc....

Logic Pro X - Smart Controls

Smart Controls are a new feature brought to Logic with Logic Pro X. This in-depth tutorial tells you everything you need to know including better alternatives to using Smart Controls where applicable & tips!...

Logic Pro X - Track Stacks

Track stacks are a massive part of Logic Pro X. This in-depth tutorial tells you everything you need to know including how to make your own track-stack synth and drum setups....

Logic Pro X tutorials: Audio Tracks & Audio Recording

Tutorial series on Audio Tracks & Audio recording in Logic Pro X. This series covers everything for beginners & intermediate users and contains plenty of multitrack recording theory & explanations about many aspects of audio recording & technique....

Make a song in Logic Pro X (Knocking on Heaven's Door)

A complete walkthrough showing the procedure to make a demo backing around a guitar/vocal song in Logic Pro X. Includes songwriter song-selling tips. THIS IS A LONG VIDEO! so please don't bother if you just want to complain about that! For noobs ...

PC SETUPS - LOOP-BASED STYLES

All about making Loop-based styles on the PC... Ideal for remixing, hi-hop, jungle, drum & bass, in fact any musics where you want to work just with samples & loops... You DON'T have to buy a sampler ...

PC SETUPS - SYNTH-BASED STYLES

All about basic starter system ideas using a cheap PC to get some synth-stylee musics going.... trance & techno styles etc, where the emphasis is on midi triggered synth patterns more than loops......

Reverberation nation? SF and verb

Reverb is the key between "machine" sound and the real deal, learn how to make SF and reverb kik your bass.......

Triangle II synth is free courtesy of rgc Audio

Vst and DXi synthesizer, Triangle II is a free download...

VST - mixer moves - record & edit

How to record & edit your VST mixer moves for Cubase VST. Specialy for newbies and accompanying the other Article on VST Mixer remote control setup & use....

VST - mixer remote control

How to get hardware control of the Cubase VST mixer from any controller source, even your synth!...

VST & REASON - rewired 1

Article about how to Rewire Propellerheads REASON & Steinberg's VST 5 - easy for newbies with lots of pictures showing yoiu step by step how to get individual drums & synths from REASON into VST's mix...

VST & REASON - rewired 2

about using Propellerhead's Reason as a stand-alone rack of sound-modules together with Steinberg VST all Rewire'd together and controlled by VST's sequencer....

VST AUDIO-LOOP STARTER

Yup, how to quickly add loops to your Steinberg Cubase VST arrange page. Adjust the tempo to fit the loop. Adjust the loop timestretch to fit the tempo - Use this to fit loops into tracks easily....

VST32 - audio groove to midi quantise

Steinberg Cubase VST 32 tutorial showing how to get groove quantises from audio loops and add those grooves to midi drum parts - check it out !...

VST32 - review - EQ section

Yup... the Cubase VST 32 Eq section is all new an' different - here's how and why and what.......

VST32 - review - FX section

Cubase VST 32 - here's some stuff about the new FX features. Check it out....

VST32 - review - main intro

We checkout the new VST32 from Steinberg, and there's so much this ones in 6 sections !...

VST32 - review - Toolbox

The new Cubase VST 32 is rocking with new features. here's what's new about some of more important Tools you can now use....

VST32 - review - Track Headers

There's so much new - to Cubase VST 32.. ha !.. poetry !... check out what's new with the track/arrange section headers - There's some great new touches....

VST32 - review - Track-Info

Whats new with Steinberg's Cubase VST 32 - track/part-Info panel has been revised, check it out on this page......

Warm Hi Hat Rebirth

kik up your hi hat birth sounds, this article assumes you know how to use SF and make mods for rebirth...

AKAI SAMPLERS - THE SERIES

The Akai samplers listed chronologically with images & spec's.... If you're after a s/h sampler & confused by the various models, check this page out....

SAMPLING BASICS - HOW TO DO IT !!

Sampling basics explained in simple terms to get you going... check it out!!...

AMD BOARDS - ATHALON

Recommended boards from AMD for athalon chips. This'll save you trawling round the www....

AMD BOARDS - DURON

Listings of AMD DURON approved/tested boards from amd site. This'll save you trawling round the www....

Behringer BCF2000 & Apple Logic Pro user-guide

Everything you need to know about using the super-value Behringer BCF2000 B-Control fader unit with Apple's Logic Pro - this guide also is mostly interchangable with cubase btw...

Build a Budget Music PC - AMD 2400 - [Video]

Yup!... the video age is here. Well, we thought why not make a nice video for noobs showing how to build a PC for music using common PC-fair parts. AMD 2400 + GIGABYTE GA-7VT600(-L) m'board....

Build a Music PC - XP2000 - super-cheap!! [pt1]

Article about building an Athlon 2000xp power system on a budget. First documented Dancetech PC build. We're checking out a new KT333 chipset board on this one. [part-1]...

Build a Music PC - XP2000 - super-cheap!! [pt2]

Part 2 of an easy to follow guide to build a dedicated music PC on the cheap. This section Adding cpu, ram, board. All prep prior to first BIOS boot....

Build a Music PC - XP2000 - super-cheap!! [pt3]

Part 3 of an easy to follow guide to build a dedicated music PC on the cheap. This section is booting to BIOS for first time, adding drives & Pre OS install stuff....

Build a Music PC - XP2000 - super-cheap!! [pt4]

Part 4 of an easy to follow guide to build a dedicated music PC on the cheap. This section is boot to bios, detect drives, final tweaks before OS install...

Build a Music PC - XP2000 - super-cheap!! [pt5]

Part 5 of an easy to follow guide to build a dedicated music PC on the cheap. This section is Win XP install - 'Plug & Play' and 'Standard PC' mode details....

Build a Music PC - XP2000 - super-cheap!! [pt6]

part 6 - final bios tweaks & XP tweaks...

Build a Music PC - XP2400 - super-cheap!! [pt1]

Here's another pc build for peanuts - This time an Athlon 2400 - Another really powerful PC for peanuts using common PC-Fair components!!...

Flatscreen 15

If you are looking to get a budget 15" flatscreen check this page and get loads of model & links info....

PC - DMA Mode

about direct memory access & how to enable it for your drives....

PC - M'board Socket - (Athlon/Duron)

Motherboard socket types - this page for both Slot-A & Socket-A - All the AMD Duron & Athlon chips up to current available processors....

PC - M'board Socket - (P2/P3/Xeon/Celeron)

Motherboard socket types. This page for the early Slot-1 boards/chips (the video shaped Pentium cpu housing), for Pentium 2 & early Celeron & Pentium 3 up to 1.13 ghz, and Pentium Zeon on Slot-2....

PC - M'board Socket - (P3/Celeron)

Sockets for motherboards - this page is for the next gen of Pentium 3 & Celeron running on socket 370 - Celeron 300 up to the last P3 running at 1.53ghz....

PC - M'board Socket - (P75-233/Pro/K5/6)

Motherboard socket types - Socket-7 for P75 to 233 mmx & K5/6, Socket-8 for P-Pro up to 333 mhz, & SuperSocket-7 (K6)....

PC - M'board Socket - (Pentium 4)

Motherboard socket types, this page for pentium 4 both types; Socket-423 & Socket-478....

PC - M'board Sockets - (SX /DX - P60/P180)

Slot 1, slot 2, slot A, socket 370 ??? - This page shows older connectors/cpu's from SX, DX & DX4/100 etc up to Pentium 166/200, pre-MMX. Everything up to Socket-7....

PC - Newbie Guided Tour 1

basic page for newbies showing what makes a pc and how the parts are laid out and connect in a typical IBM pc. Plus initial thoughts & prices on building a pc on a cheap or average budget....

PC - Virtual Cache

Article about Vcache - this relates to the 'pc - Virtual memory' article and others... Vcache is the settings for the way windows uses system ram for cache-ing files & data....

PC - Virtual memory

about virtual memory on the PC....

Pentium 3 - (256kb) overview

Condensed intel P3 info over-view for the PIII with 256kb of cache - speeds from .450 - 1.33 ghz....

Pentium 3 - (512kb) overview

Condensed overview from Intel of the P3 with 512kb cache - clock speeds from .450 - 1.4 GHz....

Plugin formats

Just a basic page of info about the types of plugins around for Mac & PC....

SCSI - part_1

basic page outlining SCSI spec's for reference, plus some thoughts and info you might find useful for music making....

VGA KILLS

'That' document about how some VGA graphics cards can lock-up your main motherboard buss & messw ith your soundcard... check it out!...

Windows XP install - [video]

Yup - you can watch an XP Pro install in episodes - EVERYTHING is covered... XP install & disk partitioning, inc' creating audio-partitions with large clusters - Service-Pack 1a & critical VIA chipset...

Yamaha DB50-XG 1/4 inch output mod

This mod add's 1/4" dedicated outputs to your DB50XG soundcard daughterboard......

DANCETECH COMPETITON

contest rules & promo page for 'best added track contest'....

DREAM CREATION - Nov-99

Latest Trance musings from Stu over at Dream-Creation magazine... check it out.....

LEGOWSKI /S.E.T.I LIVE IN JAPAN

Lagowski, who also works under the name S.E.T.I , talks about his preperation & live performance in Japan...

Life In The Fast Lane (or how to 'make it' doing music)

One artist's personal experience in the underground music scene....

Music Live 2002

Music Live 2002 - All things Music under one roof for three days....

Bendy-Toy - Live

Bendy Toy plays live in camden & we check him out....

Solving the P2P crisis

Matt is a producer who writes for the site sometimes, here's his thoughts on how we could fix the current p2p downloading situation for the benefit of all... but is it workable?...

The Bellrays - Live @ The Barfly - 29th April 2005

Live gig report - The Bellrays / Sunshine...

SEQUENCER & MIDI

All about midi & wiring up your gear for newbies....

Audio-Gates FX page

All about the Audio-Gate effects... lots of info plus tips, tricks and special fx techniques....

Compressor FX page

All about the Compressor effects... lots of info plus tips, tricks and special fx techniques....

Delay/Echo FX page

All about the Delay effects… lots of info plus tips, tricks and special fx techniques....

Reverb FX page

all about the Reverb effects... lots of info plus tips, tricks and special fx techniques....

Reverb Tutorial: Reverb for beginners

Everything you wanted to know about reverb in this full length, college quality video documentary....

DRUM STUFF - ONE

First in a series of articles about drums for dance, drum samples, patterns, styles, programming etc etc. This is the intro article talking about drums in general & the raw materials for programming, ...