MIXERS & MIXING
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Author: admin
Date: 07-Jan-99
Welcome to the MIXER section....Check out the page links, or just go for a scroll......
If you do not understand the terms, or how a mixer works, then check out the MIXER button in the Toolbar on the Left.... for a lesson
(page links)
CHOOSING A MIXER
RECORDING ON A MIXER WITHOUT SUBGROUPS
RECORDING ON A MIXER WITH SUBGROUPS
ADDING A SUB-MIXER
MIXING TIPS
CHOOSING A MIXER
There are many mixer configurations, but for dance music we can use a basic mixer..... We're gonna need a mixer whenever we need to blend any combination of outboard synths, samplers, fx mic's and maybe a DJ mixer, direct to a soundcard input to multi-track....There are various mixer configs... and we can get a certain amount of task from each....
MIXER WITH SUBGROUPS
This will be easier to work with & makes all forms of recording simple, because you have a bank of dedicated outputs, thru which you can route audio to inputs whilst not disturbing your monitoring or mastering chain......If you are working with any 8 input device....Adat, Layla, Fostex etc, an 8 Buss/subgroup mixer will make life alot easier, but will cost more money. Note, that stereo recording is not really necessary for vocals, as we can add stereo FX on playback.
MIXER WITHOUT SUBGROUPS & WITH 2 AUX SENDS
This will be cheapest sorta mixer you can get.... 6, 8 or whatever inputs blending to a stereo-master-out... there will be a stereo-monitor-out (a mirror of the Master-Out).... to send to your amp & speakers..... and 2 Auxilliary Sends.... (possibly returns if lucky)...,These mixers give more input channels for the money, and maybe cheaper.....it's the most basic you can get worth selling by a company really..... and there are a few ways to use it....
We will be able to pick out sounds from a mix of used mixer input channels, and set up STEREO recordings into our PC for recording things like stereo synths or a mono synth with a Stereo FX on it..... If you're working with a PC Virtual System with built-in FX combined with outboard midi-kit ..... this sorta mixer will do you ok....
MIXER WITHOUT SUBGROUPS & WITH 3 AUX SENDS
RECORDING ON A MIXER WITH NO SUBGROUPS
Basic mono recording (any non subgroup mixer)
To record a synth part/loop, with a stereo FX on it (with 2 Aux Sends)
To record a mono vocal with a stereo FX (reverb) on the vocal as the singer performs, but without recording the stereo FX (with 2 Aux Sends)
RECORDING ON A MIXER WITH SUBGROUPS
Basic recording mono or stereo :
To record a sound (lets say a Synth), 'MONITORING OFF TAPE' with stereo FX added,
ADDING A SUB - MIXER
You can always add a few more input channels by getting a cheap 6, 8 or 12 into 2 mixer. This is pretty easy, & does not involve modifying either mixer.....The good thing is, you can get a basic mixer with 4 subgroups for recording stuff easily to tape or hard disk via the subgroups....but you can add a cheap Line mixer to give you all the Inputs you need.....This will probably work out much cheaper than buying a newer mixer with lots of inputs & a few subgroups, a design that only appears on newer more expensive boards.
OK....First, you're going to need some 1/4 inch jack to jack cables... Lets say the Original mixer has :
And the Sub Mixer has :
To record from the sub-mixer, simply mute all the sounds on the Sub-mixer except the one you want to record.......That sound only will now appear at the two MAIN-Mixer Input Channels.......Simply route the 2 input channels to the tape or Hard disk via the subgroups, & record.
But....I hear you say....I only have one Reverb unit, & one Delay unit......How do I get it so that the AUX SENDS on BOTH mixers feed the same Delay & reverb ???.... Well, you do it like this......
1.
8.
9.
Name: Phase reverse crew
ellow! Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: J.Baardsen
Anyone got any tips about mixers ? Im a newbie and are going for a mixer these days. I was thinking of something like Roland vs-880ex, then I dont have to go for dat etc. Or should I go for Mackie (or likewise) & dat instead ? And how good is Behringer ? I would be grateful for any tip ! thnx! Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: Eddy
hey, Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: scab
I've just read some where that processors (compressors, limiters, etc.) should be patched to the channel inserts. Is that what the inserts are for? Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: Tony
I'm loving all your advice. I'm new to recording music and I need the help. I'm not that far into the rest of your literature, but I hope you mention what other equip I need to get started. Thanks again Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: theRoguedj
Good material! Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: Sue
I've just purchased a little Behringer mixer 1602A and its great. I'd really reecommend them, especially to people who are setting up home studios. Mine has 12 channels, no subgroups but alot of other features. Its compact, very easy to use and very clean sound and best of all, its about half the price of anything comparable in its range. Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: David Mazur
Hi, Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: Laur
Hi Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: k
i did a few years on PA.. there are different situations different rigs - different musics... um... well, i like to have a feather sleeping bag (army type) to use in any kikdrums... if the band is ok with it, get the stage levels down, but whack them a fat foldback so they are playing inside a more 'produced' sound... ok... you can have the band REAL loud.. and that is needed for the vibe fine with some musics..., but where it is more 'produced' music, they want to sound 'polished'... get them to turn DOWN... get up a fast monitor mix with some fx on vocals etc put in a touch of kik, any treble-mid range instruments, snare and try to then get a good balance between feedback threshold and giving them a LOUD (as they want it) 'polished' stereo field to play inside... if you have more foldback chains you can obviousoy give individuals whatever chains you have available it's whatever you have... Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: yellowman
please don't put yellow charachters in the texts, because yellowman and many others won't be able to read the articles en tips properly!!! Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: Guruzoo
Kilo, Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: jaime ibarra
exelent. Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: clive oriordan
HI MY NAMES CLIVE THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO ABOUT MIXERS . IM ON A TIGHT BUDGET Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: clive oriordan
HI MY NAMES CLIVE THANKS FOR ALL THE INFO ABOUT MIXERS . IM ON A TIGHT BUDGET Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: ZPrime
Great article Kilo. You touched on a lot of things that you learn pretty quickly after someone suggests them - especially the subtracting thing. Some other good suggestions too about listening from various places to your mix (the kitchen). I haven't tried that, but now that you mention it, I have gone into the kitchen and thought - hey that sounds funny. You're right that is a perfect way to determine what to fix. :) Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: paul
how much will it cost for a yamaha mr 1642 16 channel mixing desk ???? Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: Filipa Galhardo
What is the monitor section used for? Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: Jay
I have been running the board at my church for 8 years and we just got a midas legend and I would like to know where I can get some professional training. School shop etc. I live near St. Louis , Mo. Thanks Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: John T. Sylvanis
Can you, please review the Peavey PV8 mixer. Can't find anyone who's worked with it. Please send your comments to my e-mail address. Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: tracy
I have a TOA electronics rx5 mixer Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: do you mind?
what's up with all these cussing and bad words.. let Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: zosimo
I have a behringer SX2442FX but I want to connect from the two main output which are XLR (L/R) to the cross over and the other output TRS (L/R) connect to the power amps. It is possible at the same time? Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating
Name: chartsounds
I am using a Behringer DDX3216 but I am getting some serious latency which makes it very difficult when it comes to recording overdubs Article 'ratings' were added September 2008, so most articles have no viewer rating Note: To cut down on spammers, cookies must be enabled to post comments to this page.
With 3 Aux Sends, we can record all our stereo stuff to the soundcard using 2 of the aux-sends ..... We can also set up a Vocal on the mixer with the 3rd Aux sending an output to a reverb input so the vocalist or whatever can listen to the stereo mix, and the mic, with at least one fx on it as he/she sings.....
You might think... "Hey.. I can just send the L/R Out from the mixer to the soundcard !"....
There is a downside to having the mixer master L/R sending to the soundcard inputs in this kind of set-up..... and that is this....
The mixer master out always presents to the soundcard input, the ENTIRE mix of ALL the outboard...... if you want to ONLY record a single synth in the mix, or a vocal whilst the midi outboard backing is playing.... you'll have to mute anything OTHER than the sounds you want to record... NOT practicle for multi-tracking at all..... That is why it's best to learn how to compromise if you're on a broke budget with the Aux-Sends...... or get a mixer with a minimum of sub-groups....
OK....This kind of mixer will have between 4 & 16 mono input channels, all routing into a main stereo output fader. This kind of mixer will sometimes be described in the Ad's as a "Live" mixer. Slightly more expensive versions will have a monitor output which feeds the amp + speakers, and a L/R button on every channel to select whether the signal goes to the main stereo out.
To record a STEREO vocal with a stereo FX (reverb) on the vocal as the singer performs, and ALSO recording the stereo FX (with 3 Aux Sends)
Ok....This type of mixer is exactly the same as the basic model, but it has SUBGROUPS. The cheapest kind will have 4 Subgroups, such as some of the earlier cheap Fostex mixers which were designed to compliment the early Fostex 8 tracks which could only record on 4 tracks simultaneously. This ones very obvious but for you total beginners.....
EXCELLENT......Now we have 2 choices.........
This method allows us to record stuff only if it is plugged into the Main-Mixer....not a big deal really to just plug whatever you want to record into the Main-Mixer...and you dont waste two input channels on the Main-Mixer.....
Now the Aux 1 & 2 sends on both mixers feed the AUX 1 & 2 master out sockets on the main-Mixer........Simply assign your Delay & reverb units to these sends.......Simple huh ?.....
MIXING TIPS
Mixing is the make 'n' break for a track (unless it's just a pile 'o' crap anyway !!!) But especialy in Dance stuff, it is pretty thin air stuff...... Any how, here's a few tips.....
Once you've got a good groove goin', GET OUT OF THE ROOM !!......I mean it....Just piss-off out, and go into the kitchen or something with the door open.....Make some coffee or tea, or grab a beer, and try not to pay too much attention to the track thats looping around.
You will find that if you just have the thing playin' in the background, you start to notice stuff.....Hmmmmm...That hi-hat's a bit too loud really....Or that synth needs bringing out a touch.....
So just go in, and tweak it then GET OUT AGAIN....don't stay pratting around with stuff 'til you'ved fucked it up. This REALLY WORKS....
2.
"OK...But I can't hear the......." ....This is a deadly mistake, and always made worse when your mixing a band, an they all want to hear their bits....Y'know...." I can't hear that hi-hat slice at bar 39"...!! (fuck off 'n' die !!...bloody drummers...Well actually, bloody musicians PERIOD !!),...Anyhow.....Trying to get everything so it can be heard clearly is a classic fuck-up, and will make the track sound like crap.
At some point when you bring up the KIK or Snare or synth or whatever, the track will groove....THAT'S WHERE YOU LEAVE IT !
3.
TAKE BREAKS.......Very very regularly...especially if it's loud ! (which it shouldn't be for more than 1/2 a minute at a time...... The ears can play ALL kinds of tricks if you don't take breaks.
4.
Get your cassette machine set up !!......You can mix stuff onto cassette, and take it round your mates' yards to check it out on different systems. The more you do this, the more you will get to understand the effect the room you work in has on the sound. But there's no point takin a cassette if the EQ of your cassette machine is totally different from the actual mix before taping.
Get it set up !!......You can get the BIAS & Head AZIMUTH set for about 20 quid or dollars. Get it set to one brand and model of cassette, then stick to it. The machine will be optimised to that tape, and what you stick on cassette should be a fair representation of the Eq curve of the actual mix.
Obviously, your mates' machines will have different eq, but if you listen to it on enuff systems, you start to get a good picture. F'rinstance.....If it sounds too Toppy everywhere you play it, then it's you adding to much top. One thing tho'.....when you do play it at someones yard, make sure you take OFF any eq on the amp, especially the Bass/Loudness switch....
5.
And while we're on the subject........Y'know the Bass/Loudness switch, & the Treble 'n' Bass controls on yer amp......DON'T F***IN' USE 'EM WHEN YOU'RE MIXIN'....That's all I'm goin' t' say on that subject.....
6.
Adding.....Adding....ADDING.......Y'see, when people mix, they seem to only think about adding Eq, or FX to a sound......So lets say the guitar is not bright enuff......People always just ADD more treble to the guitar......HEY...How about removing some top end from the other stuff instead.......This goes for all the frequencies......Sometimes all a sound needs to bring it out, is to Eq some space out from the other sounds.....
The same goes for FX....especially reverb.........The classic beginers tape is always drowning in a swamp of reverb......Well if you want that Little synth line to be deeper in the reverb, how about takin' some reverb OFF the other sounds.......In other words....when mixing, thing SUBTRACTIVE....Not just ADDITIVE....!!!!!
Contrary to public opinion, Eggboxes stuck on the wall don't do alot,...Also don't try to pad the room where you work out with loads of soft wall stuff, cos all it's goin to do is absorb the high frequencies, causing you to add MORE top end to your mix.
Get your Gain setting right at the beginning...,The gain controls at the head of each mixer channel are amplifiers used to bring the incoming signal level up to a strength that the circuitry of the mixer can usefully employ. Some mixers will have a SOLO button or PFL (Pre Fade Listen) button, or a peak LED light indicator to tell you the signal level at the gain control.......If you do have these, then AFTER you have set some basic EQ on a channel, solo the channel, and, adjust the GAIN control to get as high an input level as possible without distortion....either by checking the levels with the PFL or SOLO facility, or if you do not have these switches or indicators on the mixer, then by LISTENING !!.....
Of course, with an analog mixer, it can be ok to overdrive the channels a bit, as long as distortion does not become too heavy.....but remember.....Some sounds CAN be made better by a bit of overdrive, such as kik drums etc...so go with the indicators AND your ears......
Using this technique, helps you to get the best possible signal to noise ratio from your mixer.....Think of it like this: when you are recording onto a cassette; if the record level is too LOW, then you get a higher proportionate level of tape hiss because the music is recorded low in relation to the background noise. Just as with the gain on a mixer, increasing the incoming signal gain on a cassette machine, will make the background electrical hiss & noise seem proportionately quieter !! COMMENTS FOR:
'MIXERS & MIXING'
There are a total: 24 comments posted to this page.
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Activity: part-timer
Date: 17-Apr-99
my compliments to your mixing tips! Especially the quote :substractive not only additiv. Maby add in that parapraph that it can also be applied with fader/volume levels.
My tip. Wenn starting to set a channel, set the fader to nominal (0 dB) and do not open it fully. Then set the gain till your pfl-meter hits the 0 dB led(not more!!). The rest you've already explained.
Keep up doin' the good work!!!
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 09-Jun-99
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 29-Jun-99
I make music with my synth and rebirth
in Cakewalk 8. Now i want to buy a mixer
to mix these sounds together. I was thinking of buying the Behringer MX1604a.
Is this a good choice for a beginner.
And when i want to record it on minidisc, can i just connect my minidiscrecorder on the l/r out of the mixer?
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 27-Jul-99
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Activity: part-timer
Date: 12-Aug-99
Tony
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Activity: Professional
Date: 29-Aug-99
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Activity: Professional
Date: 31-Aug-99
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 13-Oct-99
it would be nice if you could include something about live mixing. I had my
first live gig yesterday, and believe
me that when you are alone on stage you
have absolutely no time to EQ, to set
levels 100% accurately. So if I can
give you a hint : when playing live
just get simplest of mixers. (I use
a Roland M-160 line mixer). Then stick
the WHOLE mix through an eq and
set high bass and high treble as this
is what people want to hear. But then
this is just my opinion. Anybody
willing to share experience of playing live ?
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 10-Nov-99
I am from Romania ,Some day I want to be
more than a Hobbyist,I'm crazy about mixing and audio stuff.Who can tell me
what I must do to get in the business
the producers industry.I must tell that
I've not been working in the industry so
how do I get experience?
So please give me some back stage tips to be succesfull.
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Activity: part-timer
Date: 11-Nov-99
some bands are quite surprised , cos it sounds so polished, like they are in say a rehearsal room, but it's all been mic'ed and balanced and is blasting out of the stereo speakers at them to augment the backline hum...
like i say, for some musics certain backline will be so loud to get the vibe, then you go for blending any PA into it FOH only and concentrate on individual monitor chains for the musicians....
when i do that sortof mix, i deaden the kit alot, obviously you might get protest - try to get the drummer happy - if he's wacking out in a big drum sound stereo feild, then the others will want to get on ...
sometimes ive taken out the kayboard/synth players amp/cab completely, and pumped it thru the sidefills so it is 'all over the band' as they move around the stage with stereo fx ! - heh heh - it makes the event special for the band too cos they are hearing it 'polished' too - so y'know makes a nice vibe - the bass should be ok with the cab only cos it radiates, but if you put bass into the sidefills roll off bass end and add a tweak of short 'verb maybe, to accent the treble edge of licks
boxes...
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Activity: Professional
Date: 12-Mar-00
Thanks, Yellowman
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Activity: Professional
Date: 30-Jul-00
i want to add a DJ desk to my kit with the FolioNotepad.
Its got 4 mono ins 2 stereo ins.
I have to run the Line out fx to the Soundcard to record.
I run the Soundcard to the FX ins on the Folio;
Thats what i got to mix with now.
I want to get a dj desk so i can Record EQ movts ,grab switch ,stuff like that.
Now,i want to just connect the stereo outs of the XP30,and the Mono out from the DBX.
I will be adding a Nova,so thats 6 mono.Have to change the Folio too?
I want to be able to run the sampler from the soundcard thru the DJ too so the sampler can be fx,d and recorded too.
I looked at the Roland DJ2000,but its way too pricey,and has a buggy dsp apparently_ clicks on the Master out when u change fx.
I tried to get 2 consoles to run back into the Soundcard in my mind,but with the Folio its not possible,only one line out.I could do it with just the DJ2000,but its too pricey.It has 5 pairs of stereo RCA tho.
Thats I for the XP30,One for the Soundcard and 3 for the Nova.Means i would have to connect the DBX instead,when i wanted to record vocals unless i can connect some stuff to another desk.
So,i need info on either getting 1 big DJ desk with as many cool features as poss,getting an FX hw Processor to use with it,and if i need 2 mixers to get a recording chain back to the In on the soundcard,what bigger analog desk can i get?
I keep getting confused trying to go in and out as the actress said to the bishop.
I,ve seen other threads about using hw fx boxes into 2 mixers,but nowt on one of the mixers being a DJ type.
I thought and thought,and i can,t see another way of getting these dj effects into my mixes.
The XP30 only lets u use 1 fx on All 16 parts.Otherwise,just Rev and Chorus.
Yeah,the Nova is much better.
So i want to run at least 11 channels into a DJ desk,or 2 desks,and use a hw fx box too.Record into VST
I know i sound dumb,its cos i started with PC,not hardware,i,m just not able to see how these things go.
I,ll go test a DJ console soon as i understand a bit more.
Thanx Guru.
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 27-Aug-00
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Date: 30-Oct-00
FOR MY HOME STUDIO IM LOOKING FOR A MIXER THAT IS THE DOGS NUTS £200 IS MY LIMIT DONT LAUGH THE MUSIC IM DICING WITH IS PROGRESSIVE HOUSE IM RUNNING OFF VST V. 5 CU-BASE HOPE TO HEAR FROM U SOON.
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 30-Oct-00
FOR MY HOME STUDIO IM LOOKING FOR A MIXER THAT IS THE DOGS NUTS £200 IS MY LIMIT DONT LAUGH THE MUSIC IM DICING WITH IS PROGRESSIVE HOUSE IM RUNNING OFF VST V. 5 CU-BASE HOPE TO HEAR FROM U SOON.
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Activity: part-timer
Date: 19-Jun-01
I'd like to see some more Mixing/Mastering articles if you have the time - it's an artform that takes some guidance sometimes. :)
-z
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 09-Sep-03
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Date: 05-Mar-05
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Date: 19-Apr-05
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Activity: Hobby-ist
Date: 23-May-05
Many thanks.
Meanwhile, I remain sincerely yours,
John.
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Activity: part-timer
Date: 18-Jun-05
Do you know if it any good for mixing and recording with a computer
Do you a scematic for it as well? or know where i can get one?
Tracy
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Activity: Professional
Date: 30-Aug-05
people learn stuff without all those stupid stuff ok!?
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Date: 04-Apr-12
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Date: 01-Apr-13
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