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Forums - The lounge
Subject: discussion over fire and beer
Original Message Date: 20-Feb-03 @ 05:13 AM - discussion over fire and beer
okay...for one...i never trust a man who doesn't drink a beer now and then.
ah...screw politics but we know bush couldn't handle his so he became a mad bible thumper and...now the avowed NEXT bomb and missile dropper...
talk about ancient enemies.....those who can't trust the honest swagger of the tongue versus the age-old rehtorical bs of greed in the guise of propriety.
hey psy! you told me!
now don't leave me hangin>
ah...screw politics but we know bush couldn't handle his so he became a mad bible thumper and...now the avowed NEXT bomb and missile dropper...
talk about ancient enemies.....those who can't trust the honest swagger of the tongue versus the age-old rehtorical bs of greed in the guise of propriety.
hey psy! you told me!
now don't leave me hangin>
Message 11/38 20-Feb-03 @ 01:04 PM - RE: discussion over fire and beer
i just so wholeheartly agree with that kind of naivety, psy. i think we're due to spin out of the wheel of anguish. we have to stop as individuals, looking back in anger. amybe we can then reverse the cascade and have a fontain.
i know flat out utopic, but still, very tempting.
cheddar wrote:
"If we have space flight then this is a bit of a moral cleansing before the expansion, if not then we are seeing the queue forming at the waterhole"
allow me an analogy: when i was a kid, i did a lot of wild canoe camping in northern ontario. whenever we would leave a camping site, we'd make sure we brought back all our trash and ressuplied the firewood the people before us had left.
i think we're at that time now, and while we're at it, we could take some time to make a canoe that can actually go somewhere.
i know flat out utopic, but still, very tempting.
cheddar wrote:
"If we have space flight then this is a bit of a moral cleansing before the expansion, if not then we are seeing the queue forming at the waterhole"
allow me an analogy: when i was a kid, i did a lot of wild canoe camping in northern ontario. whenever we would leave a camping site, we'd make sure we brought back all our trash and ressuplied the firewood the people before us had left.
i think we're at that time now, and while we're at it, we could take some time to make a canoe that can actually go somewhere.
Message 12/38 20-Feb-03 @ 02:48 PM - RE: discussion over fire and beer
influx....i hear ya as to the freedom of speech bit.....but we're treading unexplored turf as we did
in the early eighties (reagan/bush) when a progressive bumper sticker could mean your windows bashed all over your baby-seats etc....all-fights...concert disruptions in mexican universities by black-hat wearing caballeros...i've seen plenty.
i'm not talking about mass demonstration or freedom to dissent on the net.....these are all good things and yes...they're being done daily.
anyway....there's sheer beauty in a site that encourages discussion of music AND politics as if they were part of an inseparable whole.
but back to god.
when did big-oil become the big preacher man of the house as well as judge/henchman/executioner/etc?
i wrote an article more than twenty years ago in a punk-zine i did>
it started by saying:
if god exists he is green and has three eyes.
last sentence:
for christ's blood we shall kill.
anyway....morality....fire....brimstone.
war's been delayed again til mid march.
enjoy.
psy's naivete is wisdom on a level which those who stand to profit can never manage to even hear.
and so they won't.
in the early eighties (reagan/bush) when a progressive bumper sticker could mean your windows bashed all over your baby-seats etc....all-fights...concert disruptions in mexican universities by black-hat wearing caballeros...i've seen plenty.
i'm not talking about mass demonstration or freedom to dissent on the net.....these are all good things and yes...they're being done daily.
anyway....there's sheer beauty in a site that encourages discussion of music AND politics as if they were part of an inseparable whole.
but back to god.
when did big-oil become the big preacher man of the house as well as judge/henchman/executioner/etc?
i wrote an article more than twenty years ago in a punk-zine i did>
it started by saying:
if god exists he is green and has three eyes.
last sentence:
for christ's blood we shall kill.
anyway....morality....fire....brimstone.
war's been delayed again til mid march.
enjoy.
psy's naivete is wisdom on a level which those who stand to profit can never manage to even hear.
and so they won't.
Message 13/38 20-Feb-03 @ 04:41 PM - RE: discussion over fire and beer
ok, the once and for all thing...there are limited resources, and this is still a game of selection, but this time the traits are much more subtle than simply whether your nose is a certain shape or your skin a certain color. The traits are artificially created. They are things like who you know, and what you know. It's all a knowledge thing. It really is. If you know enough secrets, and know how to use them, you have power. That's the only power there is. The only reason why certain people are still alive is that others do not hold the secrets.
An example: If somebody held the secret of the home addresses and last names, and whereabouts of the family memebers of all of the secret security officers on duty at any one time guarding the president, he wouldn't live very long. That is a secret. Same with the cops. If you knew the chief's vices, and the aforementioned secrets of the above...you'd hold power over the cops, cuz all of a sudden, the cops lose their advantage, and a BIG vulnerability is exposed, cuz you know how to scare them, and only you hold the secret of where you are going to be, and they can't be everywhere at once.
The other thing is having the power to diperse the secret into the open if anything happens to you that you don't want to happen.
The Pope has power cuz he hold the secrets of the Vatican. So do others, in it, many even more so, but he holds quite a few.
I could go on for hours with examples, but this is the prize. In this case, it's the oil, and its currency value that are the secret, along with the military might, and hiding the truths from the troops who are doing the fighting to take and keep this resource. You think a soldier is going to fight and die if his superiors tell him that he's not going out to fight for what he believes in, but simply the greed of a few that want to stay in power? THAT's a secret.
Ok, enough telling of secrets, time for you to come up with some of your own.
Ape
An example: If somebody held the secret of the home addresses and last names, and whereabouts of the family memebers of all of the secret security officers on duty at any one time guarding the president, he wouldn't live very long. That is a secret. Same with the cops. If you knew the chief's vices, and the aforementioned secrets of the above...you'd hold power over the cops, cuz all of a sudden, the cops lose their advantage, and a BIG vulnerability is exposed, cuz you know how to scare them, and only you hold the secret of where you are going to be, and they can't be everywhere at once.
The other thing is having the power to diperse the secret into the open if anything happens to you that you don't want to happen.
The Pope has power cuz he hold the secrets of the Vatican. So do others, in it, many even more so, but he holds quite a few.
I could go on for hours with examples, but this is the prize. In this case, it's the oil, and its currency value that are the secret, along with the military might, and hiding the truths from the troops who are doing the fighting to take and keep this resource. You think a soldier is going to fight and die if his superiors tell him that he's not going out to fight for what he believes in, but simply the greed of a few that want to stay in power? THAT's a secret.
Ok, enough telling of secrets, time for you to come up with some of your own.
Ape
Message 14/38 20-Feb-03 @ 06:42 PM - RE: discussion over fire and beer
k said:
"So my question is, how come the terrorists have gone so quiet and dont attack?
that's why I think it's all a load of old crap. "
ok i can think of 3 possible answers for your question...
1) there are no more terrorists
2) the terrorists are awaiting orders and its part of a larger strategery on the part of the terrorists cheifs
3) bushes plan is working and they are scared to do anything because they know he will come after them
i am sure there are more but your number 1 answer isn't looking like a candidate in my mind. i think its probably number 2.
any others out there?
as for the religious overtones of bush since 911 it doesn't bother me so much (samish religion) but you guys don't have room to bash him over the alcohol bit. as if each one of you don't struggle with addictions of some sort.
fyi between the catholics and the orthodox and anglicans there are probably 70% or more of all christians on the planet who enjoy a beer or liquor so its not the 'christian' bit, its the what was right to keep him from screwing up his life bit.
thats like making fun of a crack addict because he was strong enough to overcome his challenges and go straight, get a job, take care of his family etc.
jamey
"So my question is, how come the terrorists have gone so quiet and dont attack?
that's why I think it's all a load of old crap. "
ok i can think of 3 possible answers for your question...
1) there are no more terrorists
2) the terrorists are awaiting orders and its part of a larger strategery on the part of the terrorists cheifs
3) bushes plan is working and they are scared to do anything because they know he will come after them
i am sure there are more but your number 1 answer isn't looking like a candidate in my mind. i think its probably number 2.
any others out there?
as for the religious overtones of bush since 911 it doesn't bother me so much (samish religion) but you guys don't have room to bash him over the alcohol bit. as if each one of you don't struggle with addictions of some sort.
fyi between the catholics and the orthodox and anglicans there are probably 70% or more of all christians on the planet who enjoy a beer or liquor so its not the 'christian' bit, its the what was right to keep him from screwing up his life bit.
thats like making fun of a crack addict because he was strong enough to overcome his challenges and go straight, get a job, take care of his family etc.
jamey
Message 15/38 20-Feb-03 @ 07:49 PM - RE: discussion over fire and beer
"as if each one of you don't struggle with addictions of some sort"
i'd like to point out that i don't rule any super power of any sort.
thank you
i'd like to point out that i don't rule any super power of any sort.
thank you
Message 17/38 20-Feb-03 @ 08:29 PM - RE: discussion over fire and beer
I'll agree with Jamie on the addiction thing. If you're in this culture there's something F+cked up about you... and our leaders are human... They can only do the best they can, just like the rest of us, and when their best isn't enough they'll get fired... (at least that's how it could be).
The terrorist thing,
There are terrorist's... I'd posit the unfashionable opinion that they're part of a greater plan to keep fear in the heart of the western world so that unreasonable behaviour is seen as OK. Fear is the running theme here...
You have power when people fear what you know...
Decisons are made by those afraid of what others might do...
Decision makers are supported by those afraid they may be hurt or have their lives altered in some significant way.
If you're smart you'll see that it's all about fear. And with that understanding those who desire to control and serve their personal interests will seek new and more efficient ways of generating fear. Even to such an extent that you might "sick the Dogs" on people to keep them in support of your selfish and immoral policies.
Who gained the most from 9-11? Who stands to gain the most from war in Iraq? Who gains the most from people being afraid? The answer is all the same...
e
The terrorist thing,
There are terrorist's... I'd posit the unfashionable opinion that they're part of a greater plan to keep fear in the heart of the western world so that unreasonable behaviour is seen as OK. Fear is the running theme here...
You have power when people fear what you know...
Decisons are made by those afraid of what others might do...
Decision makers are supported by those afraid they may be hurt or have their lives altered in some significant way.
If you're smart you'll see that it's all about fear. And with that understanding those who desire to control and serve their personal interests will seek new and more efficient ways of generating fear. Even to such an extent that you might "sick the Dogs" on people to keep them in support of your selfish and immoral policies.
Who gained the most from 9-11? Who stands to gain the most from war in Iraq? Who gains the most from people being afraid? The answer is all the same...
e
Message 19/38 20-Feb-03 @ 08:55 PM - RE: discussion over fire and beer
it doesn't excuse anything, i'm just underlining the fact that i'm in no position to kill x thousands.
"i like to drink therefore i walk"
eerrr, i was born a -up dude. freelove
"i like to drink therefore i walk"
eerrr, i was born a -up dude. freelove
Message 20/38 21-Feb-03 @ 06:06 AM - RE: discussion over fire and beer
jamey....with the alcohol thing....what i was getting at is that we're dealing with a guy who had no self-control....he can't drink and have fun and chill after a day of hard work and go to bed and be reasonable the next day. it got in the way of things.....as such i believe this lack of self-control governs his apetite for power and...this equates with the power to control and/or destroy.
i'd never fault a man for cutting back on the drink....or even quitting entirely......but i do fault a man who'd quit so he might more effectively rule over others.
and i believe that's putting it mildly.
i'd never fault a man for cutting back on the drink....or even quitting entirely......but i do fault a man who'd quit so he might more effectively rule over others.
and i believe that's putting it mildly.
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