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Forums - Music techology
Subject: what new features for dancetech ???...
Original Message Date: 25-Mar-98 @ 09:47 PM - what new features for dancetech ???...
well, the sampler section is gonna get updated, so each sampler manufacturer has it's own section, with a dedicated chat room....... and I'm gonna add RA audio files to the fx section to demo fx so people can hear them........ but... what would you like to see....... er..... and forget the..."downloadable cracks& warez" idea....... ideas ??
Message 11/34 26-Mar-98 @ 07:01 PM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
strange how such informed opinions always have no email address...... ......also I cant help it if you're running cubase on a P60 with 16mb ram...... the reason FT isnt listed here is that it only works with certain soundcards right.... err.... anyway....why are you so aggressive about it anyway..??.....do you have shares in the FTracker company or something ??.... or are you 16 and didnt get a fuck for 6 months or something ??
Message 12/34 26-Mar-98 @ 07:03 PM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
PPS I need demo tape quality or higher.
Message 13/34 26-Mar-98 @ 08:03 PM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
well...... it all depends really....... I too like and prefer hardware....... but... with something like the yamaha dsp system, or the Event, or Korg 12-12 whatever.... you CAN still have the audio (loops vocals & whatever) sent to a hardware mixer for mixing live... hands on, along with your midikit outputs......
I think the thing for me is, I can still bring in an external mix to blend with the pc audio.....
now.... pc systems..... I've been plugging them for over a year here now...... and you'll notice there is nO mac stuff..... why.... cos I TRULY believe, it will take over....
check it....... and you know full well, that we're gonna see an akai sampler etc on a card within a year... if they dont, they are gonna loose out BIG-TIME financially...... I CAN TELL YOU...... that in the trade right now..... the bottom has fallen out of the keyboard market... and what do you expect.... brit-guitar-etc pop has taken over from keyboard pop...... there are already enuff decent models available for any keyboard style music...... so the manufacturers are busy addressing the dance style sector......
the money has shifted to computers......
now,........ for bands, guitar etc etc.... there's nothing wrong with tape either analog or adat...... in fact.... I WOULD ALWAYS WANT TO TRACK A ROCK BAND WITH ANALOG TAPE as an engineer, cos it's the best for drums and guitars... loverly tape saturation..... nothing like it......
good sound quality IS NOT GOING TO GET A DEAL for you........ record companies dont like finished demo's........ they want to add their own input and record you themselves..... so for demo's frankly.....the material is the most important..... but
for dance... we are going for product from home.... and pc systems are ideal for the medium.....
now for me.... i do play acoustic, rock, metal, etc etc..... and I do want to do some songs with guitar etc....... so for me, I think that the pc is a viable medium.......
right now, we are at a stage where i can pick up the phone, and have a P2-233 with 64mb sdram in my house the next day for about a grand or less........ definately NOT more.....a P200mmx is gonna be even less.....
ok.....if i add a yamaha or event or korg system to this, I can pull in a pc system with multi-outs for the same price as a hardware unit.....
hardware units are great !!..... very immeadiate..... and frankly, i dont want to edit audio for guitar stuff...... i want to drop-in and record it ....or do it in one take..... so for that type of stuff, they are very good........ the only thing is....... ability to addd more starage space.... and in this area, you have to spend more money...... or get a cart system like the zip or jazz or minidisk units... they are all cool....... and alot of them read and wirte MTC, so for example my mate has a Fostex unit, and his sequencer cahses it around all day....... excellent.... and they are portable.... and that is probably the biggest point, cos you CAN zip round to your mates place to do some work......
but....... pc's are getting more powerful... and cheaper at the same time.... and with the type of stuff in/out wise that is already available, it is a good option..... cheap storage... onscreen operation.... and if you like, you can still simply hit record and multi-track like on a conventional tape unit.... you dont have to use any of the editing facilities...
dont overlook the adat..... if you look in the articles and features section...... I've explained a piss-easy way to get tracks over from your adat to the pc... and get them in sync on a pc multitrack......WITHOUT an adat 8 channel card...... now...... you'll loose a tad of quality.... but to prepare a demo compilation for cassette use to send out..... it wont make a fart of difference, cos casettes only have about 65bd of dynamic range anyway..... so it's easy to do, and you get great x-fades etc....
dont underestimate the adat...... they are cool..... but you'll loose a track when you add the timecode.....
i guess it's up to you really..... I can guarantee.... once your pc system is set-up and working..... if you DONT fuck with it...it'll work.... and it will keep on working... my pc hardly ever crashes..... and never when doing audio.... usually if it's going to crash, it'll do it when I'm doing graphics....... trouble is..... most of the problems are from SB awe users who are installing every freware game they can find on the web and magazine cover cdroms etc........ in the end.... if you are prepared to spend 1300 on a hardware unit... that WILL NOT play games, do graphics... browse the web etc... then why the fuck are people NOT willing to spend the same on a dedicated music pc ??....... even if you cannot afford a 2nd pc... it's a piece of piss to get a secod hard drive, and add a cheap 10 quid removeable tray system.....
I picked up a 3.5gb Fujitsu UDMA drive brand new last saturday for 90 quid !!.....add a tray/removable h/d kit for 10-12 quid.... and have 2 boot drives... one for music... and one for the rest.... simple..... then add permenant drives fro storage ......
obviously it seems loony to NOT take advantage of the web, and other apps...... so if audio is critical to you... get a dual boot drive setup.....
your choice is down to your pocket, and wether you want easy portability......anyway.... this whole myth about pc's NOT being portable..... fucks sake..... take it apart and rebuild it better !!....... here's how I insatlled my motherboard in the machine I'm building right now....
I bought a pck of BLU-TAK.. and added a decent blob to the foot of every m'board suppot peg.... then I rolled up 3 or 4 balls of blu-tak, and seated the M'board onto those so they compressed as the m'board was mated home with the locating legs.... then added 2 screws... ROCK SOLID !!
next up...... really lock in all your drives with plenty of bolts.....next up.... (optional).... if you have a simple soundcard with shitty minijack connectors... (THEY SHOULD BE FUCKING OUTLAWED !!)..... grab a spare slot blanking plate..... drill 2 holes in it to take a couple of cheap 1/4" jack- sockets...... and then solder some wires to it from the minijack connectors where they hardwaire to the board.... then screw in the blanking palte.... hey presto....1/4" outputs... SOLID !!......
if you're paranoid about the drive getting vibrated...... add some neoprene pads between the chassis and the drive... then screw it home.....
in the last 5 weeks, I've been lugging my P100 unit too and from my house (8 mile X-london card journey...on roads worse than those in Cairo !!!.... and I speak from experience, cos I lived in Cairo for almost a year !!!)..... and belive me... it's never failed once..... Graham (Freakuency Generator) plays all his RTSorce gigs and others with a PC... no problems.... he built a padded flightcase for the pc..... hey... YOU CAN GET RACKS for pc's y'know !!..... just check out say a RS catalog !!.... well solid Military spec rack cases......
so..... your call........ but bear in mind the now avalable card/system options..... and the fact that as I said.... a P2 233 (lowest available model) is now about 800-1000 and obviously, with 400mhz chips already out, you can upgrade to a 500MHZ processor in about 18 months for less than a P2 233 costs now....(I belive that IBM have made a working 1100mhz chip already !!)......it could be an investment.....cos it doent matter what else comes along.... if the system gets you the audio tracks you need NOW... why even bother to upgrade !!?......
Anyway.... I know several folks getting 8 tracks with a P200mmx, or an AMD K6 233....... so that means all you need is the s/w.... and a multi-in card (IF, you need to record more than stereo input at once..... .... and I'd say... it's well gonna be worth waiting for the yamaha system if you DO need multi in's..... otherwise, an Event Darla for a measly 299 (UK) will get you 8 outs for live hands-on mixing.........
so it's down to the portability issue really....and that extra choice factor that can't be explained... the feel factor...... do you want to sling it in a rucksack and take a bus...... take it on holiday etc etc.....
I would say.... DO NOT assume that thses hardware units are more reliable... my mate just had to send one back... and lost a song or 2.... and I know a guy with 3 sync'd Fostex units runjing as a commercial 24 track... who came intio the studio on monday to find to his horror that the Units had decided to paste 6 tracks over from one machine to another, deleting a bunch of drum & guitar tracks on the other unit..... IRRETRIEVABLE !!!........ ok... i wasnt there, and it's possible that he fucked up and didnt even realise.... but he said he didnt and that the track was fine when he powered down !!.......
tough descision I know..... compounded by the fact that music shops that sell the cards and s/w know fuck all about pc's !!!.... (this i can tell you is also a dilema for the manufacturers........)
so..... for demo's...... where noise isnt an issue..... even a Fostex A8 is a good buy.... BUT... problem is... a new set of heads costs more than a P200MMX machine !!!!.......
all i can say is...... a hardware unit being chased by an atari or whatever sequencer is a great system for guitar and other live-playing -audio type recording...... you choose......
the final option is...... hire a studio and concentrate on your live perfoming, and shows...... I FIRMLY BELIVE IN THIS FOR GUITARISTS AND OTHER LIVE PERFORMERS...... i've witnessed SO MANY good artists fget into a home studio and dissapear forever up their own arse-hole....
they cease doing shows.... they end up hardly ever playing a song all the way thru any more.... they loose finger strength etc etc..... but worst of all..... they never get out and meet people..... they are just stuck inside taliking about the next upgrade they are going to get ..... and ..."when i get the alex reverb..... then my tracks will be good enuff".....etc etc etc..... IT'S BOLLOX.....AND DANGEROUS.........
if you have a talent for performing/playing.... develop it.... nurture it... get out there and play and perform... let some other sad wanker look after the technical worries, and loose all their hair and suntan !!....... believe in yourself.... and it'll happen.......if you need to work out ideas for reference.... get a cheap portastudio....... sayonara
I think the thing for me is, I can still bring in an external mix to blend with the pc audio.....
now.... pc systems..... I've been plugging them for over a year here now...... and you'll notice there is nO mac stuff..... why.... cos I TRULY believe, it will take over....
check it....... and you know full well, that we're gonna see an akai sampler etc on a card within a year... if they dont, they are gonna loose out BIG-TIME financially...... I CAN TELL YOU...... that in the trade right now..... the bottom has fallen out of the keyboard market... and what do you expect.... brit-guitar-etc pop has taken over from keyboard pop...... there are already enuff decent models available for any keyboard style music...... so the manufacturers are busy addressing the dance style sector......
the money has shifted to computers......
now,........ for bands, guitar etc etc.... there's nothing wrong with tape either analog or adat...... in fact.... I WOULD ALWAYS WANT TO TRACK A ROCK BAND WITH ANALOG TAPE as an engineer, cos it's the best for drums and guitars... loverly tape saturation..... nothing like it......
good sound quality IS NOT GOING TO GET A DEAL for you........ record companies dont like finished demo's........ they want to add their own input and record you themselves..... so for demo's frankly.....the material is the most important..... but
for dance... we are going for product from home.... and pc systems are ideal for the medium.....
now for me.... i do play acoustic, rock, metal, etc etc..... and I do want to do some songs with guitar etc....... so for me, I think that the pc is a viable medium.......
right now, we are at a stage where i can pick up the phone, and have a P2-233 with 64mb sdram in my house the next day for about a grand or less........ definately NOT more.....a P200mmx is gonna be even less.....
ok.....if i add a yamaha or event or korg system to this, I can pull in a pc system with multi-outs for the same price as a hardware unit.....
hardware units are great !!..... very immeadiate..... and frankly, i dont want to edit audio for guitar stuff...... i want to drop-in and record it ....or do it in one take..... so for that type of stuff, they are very good........ the only thing is....... ability to addd more starage space.... and in this area, you have to spend more money...... or get a cart system like the zip or jazz or minidisk units... they are all cool....... and alot of them read and wirte MTC, so for example my mate has a Fostex unit, and his sequencer cahses it around all day....... excellent.... and they are portable.... and that is probably the biggest point, cos you CAN zip round to your mates place to do some work......
but....... pc's are getting more powerful... and cheaper at the same time.... and with the type of stuff in/out wise that is already available, it is a good option..... cheap storage... onscreen operation.... and if you like, you can still simply hit record and multi-track like on a conventional tape unit.... you dont have to use any of the editing facilities...
dont overlook the adat..... if you look in the articles and features section...... I've explained a piss-easy way to get tracks over from your adat to the pc... and get them in sync on a pc multitrack......WITHOUT an adat 8 channel card...... now...... you'll loose a tad of quality.... but to prepare a demo compilation for cassette use to send out..... it wont make a fart of difference, cos casettes only have about 65bd of dynamic range anyway..... so it's easy to do, and you get great x-fades etc....
dont underestimate the adat...... they are cool..... but you'll loose a track when you add the timecode.....
i guess it's up to you really..... I can guarantee.... once your pc system is set-up and working..... if you DONT fuck with it...it'll work.... and it will keep on working... my pc hardly ever crashes..... and never when doing audio.... usually if it's going to crash, it'll do it when I'm doing graphics....... trouble is..... most of the problems are from SB awe users who are installing every freware game they can find on the web and magazine cover cdroms etc........ in the end.... if you are prepared to spend 1300 on a hardware unit... that WILL NOT play games, do graphics... browse the web etc... then why the fuck are people NOT willing to spend the same on a dedicated music pc ??....... even if you cannot afford a 2nd pc... it's a piece of piss to get a secod hard drive, and add a cheap 10 quid removeable tray system.....
I picked up a 3.5gb Fujitsu UDMA drive brand new last saturday for 90 quid !!.....add a tray/removable h/d kit for 10-12 quid.... and have 2 boot drives... one for music... and one for the rest.... simple..... then add permenant drives fro storage ......
obviously it seems loony to NOT take advantage of the web, and other apps...... so if audio is critical to you... get a dual boot drive setup.....
your choice is down to your pocket, and wether you want easy portability......anyway.... this whole myth about pc's NOT being portable..... fucks sake..... take it apart and rebuild it better !!....... here's how I insatlled my motherboard in the machine I'm building right now....
I bought a pck of BLU-TAK.. and added a decent blob to the foot of every m'board suppot peg.... then I rolled up 3 or 4 balls of blu-tak, and seated the M'board onto those so they compressed as the m'board was mated home with the locating legs.... then added 2 screws... ROCK SOLID !!
next up...... really lock in all your drives with plenty of bolts.....next up.... (optional).... if you have a simple soundcard with shitty minijack connectors... (THEY SHOULD BE FUCKING OUTLAWED !!)..... grab a spare slot blanking plate..... drill 2 holes in it to take a couple of cheap 1/4" jack- sockets...... and then solder some wires to it from the minijack connectors where they hardwaire to the board.... then screw in the blanking palte.... hey presto....1/4" outputs... SOLID !!......
if you're paranoid about the drive getting vibrated...... add some neoprene pads between the chassis and the drive... then screw it home.....
in the last 5 weeks, I've been lugging my P100 unit too and from my house (8 mile X-london card journey...on roads worse than those in Cairo !!!.... and I speak from experience, cos I lived in Cairo for almost a year !!!)..... and belive me... it's never failed once..... Graham (Freakuency Generator) plays all his RTSorce gigs and others with a PC... no problems.... he built a padded flightcase for the pc..... hey... YOU CAN GET RACKS for pc's y'know !!..... just check out say a RS catalog !!.... well solid Military spec rack cases......
so..... your call........ but bear in mind the now avalable card/system options..... and the fact that as I said.... a P2 233 (lowest available model) is now about 800-1000 and obviously, with 400mhz chips already out, you can upgrade to a 500MHZ processor in about 18 months for less than a P2 233 costs now....(I belive that IBM have made a working 1100mhz chip already !!)......it could be an investment.....cos it doent matter what else comes along.... if the system gets you the audio tracks you need NOW... why even bother to upgrade !!?......
Anyway.... I know several folks getting 8 tracks with a P200mmx, or an AMD K6 233....... so that means all you need is the s/w.... and a multi-in card (IF, you need to record more than stereo input at once..... .... and I'd say... it's well gonna be worth waiting for the yamaha system if you DO need multi in's..... otherwise, an Event Darla for a measly 299 (UK) will get you 8 outs for live hands-on mixing.........
so it's down to the portability issue really....and that extra choice factor that can't be explained... the feel factor...... do you want to sling it in a rucksack and take a bus...... take it on holiday etc etc.....
I would say.... DO NOT assume that thses hardware units are more reliable... my mate just had to send one back... and lost a song or 2.... and I know a guy with 3 sync'd Fostex units runjing as a commercial 24 track... who came intio the studio on monday to find to his horror that the Units had decided to paste 6 tracks over from one machine to another, deleting a bunch of drum & guitar tracks on the other unit..... IRRETRIEVABLE !!!........ ok... i wasnt there, and it's possible that he fucked up and didnt even realise.... but he said he didnt and that the track was fine when he powered down !!.......
tough descision I know..... compounded by the fact that music shops that sell the cards and s/w know fuck all about pc's !!!.... (this i can tell you is also a dilema for the manufacturers........)
so..... for demo's...... where noise isnt an issue..... even a Fostex A8 is a good buy.... BUT... problem is... a new set of heads costs more than a P200MMX machine !!!!.......
all i can say is...... a hardware unit being chased by an atari or whatever sequencer is a great system for guitar and other live-playing -audio type recording...... you choose......
the final option is...... hire a studio and concentrate on your live perfoming, and shows...... I FIRMLY BELIVE IN THIS FOR GUITARISTS AND OTHER LIVE PERFORMERS...... i've witnessed SO MANY good artists fget into a home studio and dissapear forever up their own arse-hole....
they cease doing shows.... they end up hardly ever playing a song all the way thru any more.... they loose finger strength etc etc..... but worst of all..... they never get out and meet people..... they are just stuck inside taliking about the next upgrade they are going to get ..... and ..."when i get the alex reverb..... then my tracks will be good enuff".....etc etc etc..... IT'S BOLLOX.....AND DANGEROUS.........
if you have a talent for performing/playing.... develop it.... nurture it... get out there and play and perform... let some other sad wanker look after the technical worries, and loose all their hair and suntan !!....... believe in yourself.... and it'll happen.......if you need to work out ideas for reference.... get a cheap portastudio....... sayonara
Message 14/34 26-Mar-98 @ 08:15 PM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
i'll just add to that above..... a portastudio with a sync'd drum box..is all you need to make demo's of songs.....
Message 15/34 26-Mar-98 @ 10:05 PM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
Er, Kulo, there must be a misunderstanding...
My note really wasn't intented agressive; it must be because of the large font I used. All I intented to say was that for audio only, trackers rule big time (altho it must be said that they lack stuff like eq's, volume mixers etc.) and that Making Waves is really a sad program if you look at how simple it is programmed. Fortunately, Fast Tracker for Windows is on the way and it should kick Making Waves and Cubase for audio only (and support all soundcards of course)... And you didn't have to rub it in that I had no sex since... er... good question... when did I have sex for the last time? Well now apalogize Kulo...
Btw, do you *really* want to know my e-mail address?
My note really wasn't intented agressive; it must be because of the large font I used. All I intented to say was that for audio only, trackers rule big time (altho it must be said that they lack stuff like eq's, volume mixers etc.) and that Making Waves is really a sad program if you look at how simple it is programmed. Fortunately, Fast Tracker for Windows is on the way and it should kick Making Waves and Cubase for audio only (and support all soundcards of course)... And you didn't have to rub it in that I had no sex since... er... good question... when did I have sex for the last time? Well now apalogize Kulo...
Btw, do you *really* want to know my e-mail address?
Message 16/34 26-Mar-98 @ 11:53 PM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
Sequencing tips, like how to control perameters of
your synth from your sequencer, filters and such, 16 and
32 note sweeps things like that.
your synth from your sequencer, filters and such, 16 and
32 note sweeps things like that.
Message 17/34 27-Mar-98 @ 02:56 AM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
A public domain patch and sample bank, listed by model
Message 18/34 27-Mar-98 @ 03:05 AM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
A public domain patch and sample bank, listed by manufacturer
and model, and with comments of the programmer/samplist
with tips of how to get this kind of sound. Then all of us
that loves sound dessign can interact with others who
likes the same tasks.
This thing would be a very didactic form of learn about
programming and everybody will access to know the
REAL power of some machines underestimated because
200 sucking factory presets.
Dan
Also the chat search facility would be cool
and model, and with comments of the programmer/samplist
with tips of how to get this kind of sound. Then all of us
that loves sound dessign can interact with others who
likes the same tasks.
This thing would be a very didactic form of learn about
programming and everybody will access to know the
REAL power of some machines underestimated because
200 sucking factory presets.
Dan
Also the chat search facility would be cool
Message 19/34 27-Mar-98 @ 04:17 AM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
Wow, is there a 400 available now? But damn, that 1100mhz chip sounds alright. One of them and an Ultrawide scsi setup would really rip.
Another way of doing the interview thing would be to send an email with a load of questions that they can respond to and send back.
Another way of doing the interview thing would be to send an email with a load of questions that they can respond to and send back.
Message 20/34 27-Mar-98 @ 04:17 AM - RE: what new features for dancetech ???...
Wow, is there a 400 available now? But damn, that 1100mhz chip sounds alright. One of them and an Ultrawide scsi setup would really rip.
Another way of doing the interview thing would be to send an email with a load of questions that they can respond to and send back.
Another way of doing the interview thing would be to send an email with a load of questions that they can respond to and send back.
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