Forums - Mixing & FX
Subject: Seeking TRANCE
Original Message Date: 30-Nov-00 @ 12:49 AM - Seeking TRANCE
Message 21/35 30-Jan-01 @ 12:07 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
can anyone elaborate on what a home producer can use to help achieve these results.
i have a really old studiomaster mixer, 3630 compressor and quadraverb. that's it!!
so first change the mixer?? analogue or digital? this subject is now begining to grate on me, what do the pros use still, analogue i bet!?? more outboard??
my finished tunes sound to me to be a bit two dimensional if you know what i mean. and also lacking a little bit of
depth if you know what i mean.
what should i purchase in the future given i'm not a multi million pound studio.
cheers
Message 22/35 30-Jan-01 @ 03:22 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
(Equadoooooor) or Sasha.
Message 23/35 30-Jan-01 @ 06:40 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
Message 24/35 31-Jan-01 @ 02:40 PM - RE: Trance/Dance production tips
To Fink,
The key to good production is down to two things, `skill` and `experience`. I know how difficult and frustrating it is when you start out and listen to all these records and can`t work out how it is done.
You don`t say what synths you have in your studio, as the key to good dance production is sounds. You can`t write a riff without the correct sound and this should always be your starting point when writing a tune.
Build up percussion layers first, find a good drum loop and then look for bass and synth sounds to layer ontop of these, ensuring that your riffs and melodies are constructed around the groove of the percussion. Everything should sit together and there`s should be no pauses or 16th note gaps at all (this is very important in dance, riffs should play off other riffs and phrases and sounds should answer each other)
Your musical structure should always work in 8 bar segments. In dance everything changes on the 8, either an additional layer comes in, or a layer is removed, depend on where the tune is going and what stage it is at. This maintains constant interest through out the piece.
God! I`m letting out a lot of secrets here, must go now as I`m stringin together another phat cut as we speak...
See ya.
Steve
Message 25/35 31-Jan-01 @ 11:57 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
Message 26/35 01-Feb-01 @ 11:23 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
Try to think about your mix as you write. Really the mix should not be a great hassle if you have prepared for it in the earlier processes of a tune.
The key to this is selecting and programming sounds that fit before grabbing eq and fx.
Using filters, amp and filter envs to shape your sounds is all part of getting the mix spot on.
Many people wonder why their mixes sound so messing without realising that you can`t fix a badly programmed sound with eq. When all of your sounds are put together they should sound almost mixed before even approaching the desk.
Sounds and programming is the most important part of mixing as this is the source of your signal and the deskeq should only be used to gently enhance or reduce certain frequencies which may need slight attention.
I might chat about compression tomorrow as the wrong technique can fuck things up quite considerably, but the right technique can allow you to have a mix which would hardly need any work in the post production stage.
Cheers all,
Steve
Message 27/35 02-Feb-01 @ 01:40 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
People allways say that make beat and bass work together which propably means that they shouldn't overlap each other's frequencies.
Which one should (generally) be lower? and how do you know that they are "working together" besides each one can be heard clearly when playing at the same time? Is that essential?
sometimes when i drop out some part suddenly another (which i had forgotten)stands out very clearly. Is it a sign of bad mixing?
I know this is very hard to discuss when not hearing actual thing.
Message 28/35 02-Feb-01 @ 02:35 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
Message 29/35 02-Feb-01 @ 11:29 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
I think I know what your hitting on.
What your saying is how do you balance a low frequency kick drum over a low frequency sub/synth bass sound and allow the two to work together?
This all depends on what style of music you are writing. Generally for music based around break beats I would say put the kick slightly above the sub bass by tuning it up a bit and using a touch of eq.
The problem with stuff like this is there are no real rules. Another thing to be aware of is that your average listener sometimes refers to certain sounds as bass, but they arn`t actually bass.
You can put a kick in a tune and boost the lower midz and slam a really deep sub bass underneath it to fill out the bottom. Drum and Bass producers often use this approach.
Or sometimes the reverse is better. You might want to have a really muffled detuned, deep, muddy kick and a lighter bass sound (say an acoustic bass) grooving over the top. Hip hop tunes often use this technique.
At the end of the day it`s all down to the sounds you use and what effect you`re after. Sometimes if your tune is really minimal you might want to mould the kick and the bass into one and let them play off each other as each note hits the floor, as you described above. A Tribe Called Quest did this in their Find A Way track and the tune is just bass, bass, bass!! Same with a lot fo Q-Tips stuff, check Vibrant Thing.
I`ve just reread your message an noticed something else that might be causing your problem.
If sounds are jump out when other sounds are not playing then yes this is definately a mix issue. Difficult for me to answer because I don`t know what you`re monitoring on, but generally try not to boast to much bass and definately cut bass off other sounds in your tune to allow the bottom to bleed from the bass sounds and not the other instruments.
All mid range sounds will have a fundemental freqency in the bottom and you need to remove some of this with eq so the bottom end from your bass sounds are clear and not mushing up with every thing else.
Try to flatten things out nicely by cutting more than boasting and don`t over do any sounds.
If your using monitors then my rule to you is -
`Keep it flat, keep it smooth and it will transfer`.
Best regards,
Steve
p.s I actually write dance music, although I have referenced against other stuff above and maybe setting up a website soon with loads of info to try and help people through this frustrating stuff, watch this space....
Message 30/35 03-Feb-01 @ 08:14 PM - RE: Seeking TRANCE
how bout just writing articles HERE! theres space for it
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