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Forums - The lounge
Subject: guns
Pages: 1 ... 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 15
Original Message Date: 17-Oct-02 @ 04:59 AM - guns
Just saw a trailer for Michael Moore's new movie "Bowling for Columbine." It's all about guns in America and it got me thinking. Why are guns such a problem in America? How 'sacred' is the second amendment?
Personally, I don't think guns serve any purpose but to kill. You can target shoot without lethal potential and you can kill animals without firepower. I don't like the government telling us what we can and cannot own, but I really don't see the need for guns in any society.
I'm curious what you guys think. Do we need guns? Would it make a noticeable social impact to outlaw guns? I think it may... more than waiting for the average American psyche to evolve.
Quoting Linda Richomond, "Twalk amongst yahselves"
I love the smell of stirred shit.
psylichon
Personally, I don't think guns serve any purpose but to kill. You can target shoot without lethal potential and you can kill animals without firepower. I don't like the government telling us what we can and cannot own, but I really don't see the need for guns in any society.
I'm curious what you guys think. Do we need guns? Would it make a noticeable social impact to outlaw guns? I think it may... more than waiting for the average American psyche to evolve.
Quoting Linda Richomond, "Twalk amongst yahselves"
I love the smell of stirred shit.
psylichon
Message 51/147 19-Oct-02 @ 07:51 PM - RE: guns
Ok, kiddies dig this. I want to show you what happens in an almost gunless society.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49390-2002Oct18.html
That area has no guns to fight back against somebody who REALLY is embodying the term terrorist. Most this other shit was mild on the terror scale, but this is a place that has been unarmed in the interest of liberal humanistic fuckwit lefty asshole do-gooders, and now they are being fucked in the ass one bullet at a time as people die.
I can guarantee you with no hesitation whatsoever that something like this could not happen nearly this long in NH.
WHY? Because the local populace would form militias and gun every fucker down who starts taking pots shots at innocents. The only times you hear about people and guns in NH is when they rise up against the cops (as they should), or maybe in a personal grudge, but it never gets out into being the random public...why? Because folks there realise that your business is your business, and if you can't handle your business, it's your problem and not theirs until you make it so. You make it a community problem, and the community will take care of you, one way or the other.
When you start trying to run others ' lives without realizing the consequences of your good intentions, you get shit like this. Combine this with a media who loves to lie and blow shit completely out of proportion to a public that prefers terror over lack of stimulation in their dull wage slave lives, and you have the sad state of today.
People are talking about a sniper who's only shooting 250 yards tops. That's not a sniper at all!!!! That's your average military expert shooter.
Little hint for you folks. Every soldier in the army, and every Marine, (I don't know about the Navy or airforce basic training regimens) are trained to hit targets at ranges out to 300 metres. In the army there are three levels of qualification with weapons and other tools: Marksman, Sharpshooter, and Expert. Experts are not that rare, and EVERY single person you see in either an Army or Marine uniform has to at least be able to make 250 metre shots or they can't qualify to be in the military at all, period. It's part of the job description and requirements.
A Sniper on the other hand has to be able to make headshots at more than double that range. To qualify as a military sniper, one has to be able to approach a target unseen (and I mean UNSEEN! It's amazing what training and ghillie suits can do.) and make between a 600 to 1000 yard shot with a window of opportunity of about ten seconds, and then get out of the firing area undetected.
The idea of using sniper tactics is superior range and undetectability to so that even when the objective has been eliminated, all of the return fire is misdirected, and confusion ensues.
This guy/team isn't doing that.
Also in the places this guy is shooting, there isn't enough space/range to make those kinds of shots.
A white van was found with a casing a tarot card and an assault rifle of the same calibre as the shooter's bullets, and yiou know what? The owner was released without charge. Know why? Cuz all that shit about tarot cards is just hype and misinformation.
I'd be willing to put money on the goal of this operation, be it one person, or part of a larger conspiracy is to take away more guns from the law-abiding public, and leave us even more vulnerable to governmental, and zealot terrorism. And it's working, thanks to the fucking asshole shithead, dickweed idiot bastards that run the media and want better ratings so they can get that Extra special shade of red on their next Ferarri, and the ether wash on their blow instead of just acetone.
$.02
Ape
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A49390-2002Oct18.html
That area has no guns to fight back against somebody who REALLY is embodying the term terrorist. Most this other shit was mild on the terror scale, but this is a place that has been unarmed in the interest of liberal humanistic fuckwit lefty asshole do-gooders, and now they are being fucked in the ass one bullet at a time as people die.
I can guarantee you with no hesitation whatsoever that something like this could not happen nearly this long in NH.
WHY? Because the local populace would form militias and gun every fucker down who starts taking pots shots at innocents. The only times you hear about people and guns in NH is when they rise up against the cops (as they should), or maybe in a personal grudge, but it never gets out into being the random public...why? Because folks there realise that your business is your business, and if you can't handle your business, it's your problem and not theirs until you make it so. You make it a community problem, and the community will take care of you, one way or the other.
When you start trying to run others ' lives without realizing the consequences of your good intentions, you get shit like this. Combine this with a media who loves to lie and blow shit completely out of proportion to a public that prefers terror over lack of stimulation in their dull wage slave lives, and you have the sad state of today.
People are talking about a sniper who's only shooting 250 yards tops. That's not a sniper at all!!!! That's your average military expert shooter.
Little hint for you folks. Every soldier in the army, and every Marine, (I don't know about the Navy or airforce basic training regimens) are trained to hit targets at ranges out to 300 metres. In the army there are three levels of qualification with weapons and other tools: Marksman, Sharpshooter, and Expert. Experts are not that rare, and EVERY single person you see in either an Army or Marine uniform has to at least be able to make 250 metre shots or they can't qualify to be in the military at all, period. It's part of the job description and requirements.
A Sniper on the other hand has to be able to make headshots at more than double that range. To qualify as a military sniper, one has to be able to approach a target unseen (and I mean UNSEEN! It's amazing what training and ghillie suits can do.) and make between a 600 to 1000 yard shot with a window of opportunity of about ten seconds, and then get out of the firing area undetected.
The idea of using sniper tactics is superior range and undetectability to so that even when the objective has been eliminated, all of the return fire is misdirected, and confusion ensues.
This guy/team isn't doing that.
Also in the places this guy is shooting, there isn't enough space/range to make those kinds of shots.
A white van was found with a casing a tarot card and an assault rifle of the same calibre as the shooter's bullets, and yiou know what? The owner was released without charge. Know why? Cuz all that shit about tarot cards is just hype and misinformation.
I'd be willing to put money on the goal of this operation, be it one person, or part of a larger conspiracy is to take away more guns from the law-abiding public, and leave us even more vulnerable to governmental, and zealot terrorism. And it's working, thanks to the fucking asshole shithead, dickweed idiot bastards that run the media and want better ratings so they can get that Extra special shade of red on their next Ferarri, and the ether wash on their blow instead of just acetone.
$.02
Ape
Message 52/147 19-Oct-02 @ 09:20 PM - RE: guns
Steve Roughley
Posts: 1178
Link?: No link
File?: No file
Calm down mate! I certainly dislike the idea of angry people owning guns!
A couple of points to make. He's a fucking sniper mate!!! Maybe not by profession and maybe not that talented at his chosen pastime, but he is still hiding and shooting from afar. These victims wouldn't have a chance to fire back even if they all carried assault rifles. Not only that but history has proved time and time again that giving the general, untrained and quite often uneducated, public the power to run around vigilante style will result in far worse problems.
Regards.
Steve.
A couple of points to make. He's a fucking sniper mate!!! Maybe not by profession and maybe not that talented at his chosen pastime, but he is still hiding and shooting from afar. These victims wouldn't have a chance to fire back even if they all carried assault rifles. Not only that but history has proved time and time again that giving the general, untrained and quite often uneducated, public the power to run around vigilante style will result in far worse problems.
Regards.
Steve.
Message 53/147 19-Oct-02 @ 09:20 PM Edit: 19-Oct-02 | 09:56 PM - RE: guns
Zazza
Posts: 1502
Link?: No link
File?: No file
ok, so imagine everyone is armed to the teeth and terrified.. and someone is shot through the head from a range of say 250 metres?
Then what happens?
A bunch of untrained marksmen/women all start shooting the nearest white van driver or what?
Really, how does this work?
Then what happens?
A bunch of untrained marksmen/women all start shooting the nearest white van driver or what?
Really, how does this work?
Message 54/147 19-Oct-02 @ 09:53 PM - RE: guns
i knew a guy who was 'expert' shooter in panama.. had eleven kills on his record. once i said 'upright electric bass' and he starts singing 'uuuuupright eleeeectric baaaass' and cracking up.
it was funny. but also not.
it was funny. but also not.
Message 55/147 19-Oct-02 @ 11:33 PM - RE: guns
You're not getting it, dickheads. It's not from a range of 250 metres. This shit is happening at like 40 metres. Yes there is somebody out there using one bullet at a time, and hitting his targets, but that's not a fucking sniper. The media is blowing this all out of proportion and you are feeding the fire.
Zazza,
The van did NOT belong to the shooter. A van was found with what could have been the right tools and a tarot card, and a spent shell of what could be the correct bullet diameter, but OBVIOUSLY, FUCKING OBVIOUSLY, they weren't freshly fired, and thus have no bearing on the case, so this white van thing is TOTALLY irrelevant. Read your facts. Get them straight. Bets are it's either uncle sam or a gun lobbyist trying to get more guns taken away from the public by attacking a gun-free community. Fucking depraved cowardice.
Anger and its expression are not the objective, Steve. Solving the problem is, and trusting idiots with nothing more than a high-school diploma, and some legal parroting, without really even understanding what the laws are about except to justify their exertion of power and authority over others is not what stops this type of atrocity. Get it yet?
Ever owned a gun? Ever fired one? Then what the fuck do you know about them apart from what you and your fucking booksmart idealistic teachers shit into the space between your ears, because if you had, you'd realize the awesome responsibility that comes with even holding such a tool of potential destruction in your hands. For those who have, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
This anti-gun bullshit ranks up there with pro-lifer garbage from fucking assholes that have never had to deal with an unwanted, or impossible pregnancy. You don't know what it's like until you're in the situation where you need one, and then it's too late if you're not prepared.
You think it's pleasant killing another living being, be it an animal or human? You think it's nice and it's fun, and people really like that shit? It takes some serious tapping into some primal part of our being to do it, and it's almost never a good place to be for an extended period, but it is a part of us, and a necessary one from time immemorial.
Most hunters I know feel proud when they take their prey cleanly, with the minumum amount of pain or struggle. None of them I know like to watch their prey thrash about in agony or runniing for miles, trying to outdistance the reaper.
I used to be a target shooter, and I know the satisfaction that comes with willing that piece of metal and heat from the tool in my hands to the exact place that I want it to pass sucessfully, so that it's not some wild, dangerous energy, that could randomly hurt or kill any and all in its path. To do it properly, you have to train your heart to skip a bit at will. It's a very Zen act, much like archery. The mechanics are different, but the discipline is similar.
BTW, who do you think it was that shrugged off the last oppressive regime here? The fucking gun owners. Who will do it now? The drug makers, the code-breakers, the bomb-builders, the independent media wizards, the radical freaks, and the once again the FUCKING GUN OWNERS. All those folks that the government and it's ass-kissing shit-stirring media-mind-programming-suck-hounds continue to call terrorists and wacko extremists.
Think about it.
Ape
Zazza,
The van did NOT belong to the shooter. A van was found with what could have been the right tools and a tarot card, and a spent shell of what could be the correct bullet diameter, but OBVIOUSLY, FUCKING OBVIOUSLY, they weren't freshly fired, and thus have no bearing on the case, so this white van thing is TOTALLY irrelevant. Read your facts. Get them straight. Bets are it's either uncle sam or a gun lobbyist trying to get more guns taken away from the public by attacking a gun-free community. Fucking depraved cowardice.
Anger and its expression are not the objective, Steve. Solving the problem is, and trusting idiots with nothing more than a high-school diploma, and some legal parroting, without really even understanding what the laws are about except to justify their exertion of power and authority over others is not what stops this type of atrocity. Get it yet?
Ever owned a gun? Ever fired one? Then what the fuck do you know about them apart from what you and your fucking booksmart idealistic teachers shit into the space between your ears, because if you had, you'd realize the awesome responsibility that comes with even holding such a tool of potential destruction in your hands. For those who have, then you know exactly what I'm talking about.
This anti-gun bullshit ranks up there with pro-lifer garbage from fucking assholes that have never had to deal with an unwanted, or impossible pregnancy. You don't know what it's like until you're in the situation where you need one, and then it's too late if you're not prepared.
You think it's pleasant killing another living being, be it an animal or human? You think it's nice and it's fun, and people really like that shit? It takes some serious tapping into some primal part of our being to do it, and it's almost never a good place to be for an extended period, but it is a part of us, and a necessary one from time immemorial.
Most hunters I know feel proud when they take their prey cleanly, with the minumum amount of pain or struggle. None of them I know like to watch their prey thrash about in agony or runniing for miles, trying to outdistance the reaper.
I used to be a target shooter, and I know the satisfaction that comes with willing that piece of metal and heat from the tool in my hands to the exact place that I want it to pass sucessfully, so that it's not some wild, dangerous energy, that could randomly hurt or kill any and all in its path. To do it properly, you have to train your heart to skip a bit at will. It's a very Zen act, much like archery. The mechanics are different, but the discipline is similar.
BTW, who do you think it was that shrugged off the last oppressive regime here? The fucking gun owners. Who will do it now? The drug makers, the code-breakers, the bomb-builders, the independent media wizards, the radical freaks, and the once again the FUCKING GUN OWNERS. All those folks that the government and it's ass-kissing shit-stirring media-mind-programming-suck-hounds continue to call terrorists and wacko extremists.
Think about it.
Ape
Message 56/147 19-Oct-02 @ 11:46 PM Edit: 20-Oct-02 | 12:03 AM - RE: guns
Steve Roughley
Posts: 1178
Link?: No link
File?: No file
Pongoid, I used to live in Australia where I would regularily go camping in the country and hunt Kangaroos, Rabbits etc. I have used .303 and .22 Rifles as well as shotguns. When I visited my relatives in Canada, I whent on a handgun proficiency course where I learned and used several different handguns. Yet, I still hate guns! And I still believe that, due to the basic fact that humans are emotionally driven and all-to-often irresponsible creatures, giving them more guns and the power that comes with owning such a machine is plain STUPID!
Yes I believe that we need to do something to protect ourselves, but giving Jo Bloggz, who never made further education, a gun is a silly and irresponsible thing to do. Guns just make killing to easy for this to be a good idea. Not only that, but people often use guns for 'game' hunting. So many hunters don't even eat their kill and that is a bloody waste! What fun! Lets all kill endangered animals, stuff them and put them on our walls! Christ, what is the definition of dementia again?
God! Look what's happened to me. I usually try to avoid these damned debates. I have a head-ache. Where's my Carlsberg Export?!?
Regards.
And happy killing!
Steve.
Yes I believe that we need to do something to protect ourselves, but giving Jo Bloggz, who never made further education, a gun is a silly and irresponsible thing to do. Guns just make killing to easy for this to be a good idea. Not only that, but people often use guns for 'game' hunting. So many hunters don't even eat their kill and that is a bloody waste! What fun! Lets all kill endangered animals, stuff them and put them on our walls! Christ, what is the definition of dementia again?
God! Look what's happened to me. I usually try to avoid these damned debates. I have a head-ache. Where's my Carlsberg Export?!?
Regards.
And happy killing!
Steve.
Message 57/147 19-Oct-02 @ 11:50 PM - RE: guns
do you sleep with your gun?
Your poetic descriptions of death tools don't do much for a pacifist like me. Much like my pussy-ass whining and bleeding heart whatever isn't going to change your love of hot metal. To each his own. But I'm allowed to have an opinion about guns even though I've never fired one. And I'm allowed to have an opinion on killing others, even though I never have and hopefully never will. I mean jesus, you can take the experience argument only so far.
Putting a gun in my hand is not going to change my mentality. Obviously you were raised by the gun so taking it out of your hand ain't gonna do much for you either.
Get it?
psylichon
Your poetic descriptions of death tools don't do much for a pacifist like me. Much like my pussy-ass whining and bleeding heart whatever isn't going to change your love of hot metal. To each his own. But I'm allowed to have an opinion about guns even though I've never fired one. And I'm allowed to have an opinion on killing others, even though I never have and hopefully never will. I mean jesus, you can take the experience argument only so far.
Putting a gun in my hand is not going to change my mentality. Obviously you were raised by the gun so taking it out of your hand ain't gonna do much for you either.
Get it?
psylichon
Message 58/147 20-Oct-02 @ 12:42 AM - RE: guns
all I can say is pongoid my man...nuff respect in SO many areas, but you have turned into one incredibly smug, antagonistic elitist who calls people idiots and dickheads at the drop of the hat, simply for stating their opinions
this is a far cry from the guy who spent quite some time rappin with me on the phone, explaining things patiently to me with an impressive willingness to help
now all you do is call everyone fools and imply that YOU and YOU ALONE are the only one that understands the workings of the world.
sorry man but you need to come down a bit.
this is a far cry from the guy who spent quite some time rappin with me on the phone, explaining things patiently to me with an impressive willingness to help
now all you do is call everyone fools and imply that YOU and YOU ALONE are the only one that understands the workings of the world.
sorry man but you need to come down a bit.
Message 60/147 20-Oct-02 @ 01:59 AM - RE: guns
I say "a bit" because I feel like I do understand where Pongoid is coming from..its called exasperation. But throwing the baby out with the bathwater...well...
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