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Forums - Music techology
Subject: SH-32: yet another warning.
Original Message 1/13 18-Dec-03 @ 04:54 AM Edit: 19-Dec-03 | 02:09 AM - Roland SH-32: yet another warning.
I know, I'm a gear whore. Whatever. Here's the thing, if a piece of gear looks like a good deal ($200.00 or less) I'm not averse to checking it out. The DX200 and AN200 are good examples of what happens in these circumstances. The next series of pieces I'll be working on will include them. They will not, however, include the SH32. Oh, I also like to "find out for myself".
I read the reviews. Filter stepping was a big concern for most but it seemed to only show up when using the knobs in real time. When using the LFO's or filter EG I didn't detect a problem. The problem for me is not having enough modulation options to overcome the inability to use knobs to create complex "envelopes" using real time tweaking while recording to MIDI. Perhaps I could draw envelopes into the sequencer tracks and to overcome the limited resolution of the knobs. So, the filter resolution doesn't seem to be the problem, its the knobs. Someone corroborate or rebut, I have no intention of going into Cubase and start drawing envelopes when I have other gear that doesn't require me to do so.
Assuming you CAN draw complex envelopes into your sequencer tracks and overcome the knobs resolution one would be led to believe that this is a classic, "if you have more time than money...", situation. Fair enough.
So, okay. We got a tasty long form envelope going, the kind of thing that evolves over a period of four or five minutes, constantly changing and becoming as much a part of the piece as the melody. Oh but wait, you aren't interested in melody. The envelope acts as a surrogate melody. Being a bit experimental eh? Perhaps a little ring & PW mod, sync the oscillators, and throw in over the top wicked rez. Hmmm, not so much maybe. Sync = no filter. It also makes the patch monophonic. I can actually live in a monophonic world, however, because there are so many other things to try out besides harmony. But wait, there is EVEN MORE! Ring mod = no PW mod!
Look, to be fair, I read about these limitations but I thought to myself, "So what, surely there will be other things to compensate for such limitations." Heh, heh. Ho ho. Hee hee hee. HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW......
"Bob, as if all the above weren't enough...."
Not only is the filter unavailable during sync BUT when it is available it will provide you with CLASSIC digital distortion at certain settings, certain settings which are wholly, that's right, COMPLETELY unpredictable (well I guess you can call saying, "anytime I go for something like an long or extreme filter sweep I can predict that at some point, several actually, it will distort", a sort of prediction).
In the digital world we now live in there is one cardinal rule that can never be broken, it's breaking creates that which has no redeeming value, no workaround, it cannot be "used creatively". It is a one dimensional phenomenon whose character is implacable, unusable. Digital distortion is NOT acceptable and no amount of justification will ever change that.
So I hereby add my opinion to the long list opinions about the SH32. The long list of negative ones. The SH32 has no redeeming value. Honestly, I and many others can lived with a lot of things when finding a synth for $200.00. Digital distortion will never be one of them. It would have been nice to even be able to say, "If the more conventional dance oriented stuff is what you're going for, as opposed to experimental sounding noises from the ether, then this will be a passable synth." but I can't. I'll say it again, "digital distortion". Roland knows what a Romper Room no no digital distortion is. There will be a good number of sixteen years old kids this Christmas that don't. By the time they figure it out their "30 days" will be long gone. Shame on Roland for not recalling every single one of these units.
I read the reviews. Filter stepping was a big concern for most but it seemed to only show up when using the knobs in real time. When using the LFO's or filter EG I didn't detect a problem. The problem for me is not having enough modulation options to overcome the inability to use knobs to create complex "envelopes" using real time tweaking while recording to MIDI. Perhaps I could draw envelopes into the sequencer tracks and to overcome the limited resolution of the knobs. So, the filter resolution doesn't seem to be the problem, its the knobs. Someone corroborate or rebut, I have no intention of going into Cubase and start drawing envelopes when I have other gear that doesn't require me to do so.
Assuming you CAN draw complex envelopes into your sequencer tracks and overcome the knobs resolution one would be led to believe that this is a classic, "if you have more time than money...", situation. Fair enough.
So, okay. We got a tasty long form envelope going, the kind of thing that evolves over a period of four or five minutes, constantly changing and becoming as much a part of the piece as the melody. Oh but wait, you aren't interested in melody. The envelope acts as a surrogate melody. Being a bit experimental eh? Perhaps a little ring & PW mod, sync the oscillators, and throw in over the top wicked rez. Hmmm, not so much maybe. Sync = no filter. It also makes the patch monophonic. I can actually live in a monophonic world, however, because there are so many other things to try out besides harmony. But wait, there is EVEN MORE! Ring mod = no PW mod!
Look, to be fair, I read about these limitations but I thought to myself, "So what, surely there will be other things to compensate for such limitations." Heh, heh. Ho ho. Hee hee hee. HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW......
"Bob, as if all the above weren't enough...."
Not only is the filter unavailable during sync BUT when it is available it will provide you with CLASSIC digital distortion at certain settings, certain settings which are wholly, that's right, COMPLETELY unpredictable (well I guess you can call saying, "anytime I go for something like an long or extreme filter sweep I can predict that at some point, several actually, it will distort", a sort of prediction).
In the digital world we now live in there is one cardinal rule that can never be broken, it's breaking creates that which has no redeeming value, no workaround, it cannot be "used creatively". It is a one dimensional phenomenon whose character is implacable, unusable. Digital distortion is NOT acceptable and no amount of justification will ever change that.
So I hereby add my opinion to the long list opinions about the SH32. The long list of negative ones. The SH32 has no redeeming value. Honestly, I and many others can lived with a lot of things when finding a synth for $200.00. Digital distortion will never be one of them. It would have been nice to even be able to say, "If the more conventional dance oriented stuff is what you're going for, as opposed to experimental sounding noises from the ether, then this will be a passable synth." but I can't. I'll say it again, "digital distortion". Roland knows what a Romper Room no no digital distortion is. There will be a good number of sixteen years old kids this Christmas that don't. By the time they figure it out their "30 days" will be long gone. Shame on Roland for not recalling every single one of these units.
Message 2/13 18-Dec-03 @ 06:28 AM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
Hahahahah class rant! You guys are putting me in the mood to go off on something... it's been a while.
---"In the digital world we now live in there is one cardinal rule that can never be broken, it's breaking creates that which has no redeeming value, no workaround, it cannot be "used creatively". It is a one dimensional phenomenon whose character is implacable, unusable. Digital distortion is NOT acceptable and no amount of justification will ever change that."---
methinks Trent Reznor would disagree with you. Though I would largly disagree with him, to be honest.
---"In the digital world we now live in there is one cardinal rule that can never be broken, it's breaking creates that which has no redeeming value, no workaround, it cannot be "used creatively". It is a one dimensional phenomenon whose character is implacable, unusable. Digital distortion is NOT acceptable and no amount of justification will ever change that."---
methinks Trent Reznor would disagree with you. Though I would largly disagree with him, to be honest.
Message 3/13 18-Dec-03 @ 08:15 AM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
0dB
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Top rant!!!!
I traded in my SH-32, I didn't play with it enough in the shop (a lesson now learnt). Agree with everything you say. All in all I came to the conclusion that while it should be a good synth, certainly on paper, there are just some glaring 'features', most of which you mention, that make it total and utter arse.
I think Roland went for quantity over quality with the voices and ended up not actually having enough DSP power to cover it all.
I traded in my SH-32, I didn't play with it enough in the shop (a lesson now learnt). Agree with everything you say. All in all I came to the conclusion that while it should be a good synth, certainly on paper, there are just some glaring 'features', most of which you mention, that make it total and utter arse.
I think Roland went for quantity over quality with the voices and ended up not actually having enough DSP power to cover it all.
Message 4/13 18-Dec-03 @ 08:21 AM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
Hmmm... I figure there is something wrong with yer sh-32. Yes its a bit limited but what do you expecy for such a low price...
I've had mine for a while and the limitations have never really bothered me. I guess its more of a "starter" synth or a synth that fits in well when you've got a fair few other hardware synths.
I've certainly never heard the filter distort in the way toy say it does. oh well
G
I've had mine for a while and the limitations have never really bothered me. I guess its more of a "starter" synth or a synth that fits in well when you've got a fair few other hardware synths.
I've certainly never heard the filter distort in the way toy say it does. oh well
G
Message 5/13 18-Dec-03 @ 09:37 AM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
I was tempted a bit....now that they are gettting cheaper and cheaper...but I guess this won't be a steal like the dx200 was (at 149 euro)...
Message 6/13 18-Dec-03 @ 09:43 AM Edit: 18-Dec-03 | 09:43 AM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
--"Product Description
New! Wave Acceleration synthesis creates a variety of synth waves — 67 total"--
That alone should have valued it weeeell under $200 in this day and age.
New! Wave Acceleration synthesis creates a variety of synth waves — 67 total"--
That alone should have valued it weeeell under $200 in this day and age.
Message 7/13 18-Dec-03 @ 09:50 AM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
Hehe...mij Bass-Station only has 2 waves....So it would have to sell for like 3 bucks? Hehe....the Bass-Station still kick major ass if you ask me...
Message 8/13 18-Dec-03 @ 12:13 PM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
yeah, but does it offer digital distorsion? 
Message 9/13 18-Dec-03 @ 02:14 PM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
im getting one for christmas, it gets delivered today.
Message 10/13 18-Dec-03 @ 03:10 PM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
baastain you know it! ive loved mine since ive had it..strangely better for leads than it is for bass (well that really low bass anyways)
greg
greg
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