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Forums - Music techology
Subject: The Posers leave the floor...
Original Message 1/37 09-Sep-03 @ 02:12 AM - The posers leave the floor...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1026308,00.html
Anybody get hurt by this apart from the Super Clubs and the Magazines?
Sorts the wheat from the Chaff, I suppose...
Anybody get hurt by this apart from the Super Clubs and the Magazines?
Sorts the wheat from the Chaff, I suppose...
Message 2/37 09-Sep-03 @ 02:58 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Good.... now maybe some new styles will evolve...
Message 3/37 09-Sep-03 @ 03:04 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Exactly. While they're not totally to blame for lack of progression, I do think they nurtured a whole bunch of Cowboy cheese meister producers in it for a quick buck.
Message 4/37 09-Sep-03 @ 03:07 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
its funny how the mainstream always calls something that isnt in the mainstream "dead"
its only valid if its on radio one or KROQ?
pshaw!
its only valid if its on radio one or KROQ?
pshaw!
Message 5/37 09-Sep-03 @ 07:25 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Viv Craske, the editor of Mixmag: ".....people no longer want to listen to cheesy anthems that are nothing to do with clubbing."
i cant believe even mixmag got it!
i cant believe even mixmag got it!
Message 6/37 09-Sep-03 @ 06:01 PM Edit: 09-Sep-03 | 06:28 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
What will be left over is an audience raised on an electronic aesthetic, waiting for its evolution. Its already happening.
Its happening on WREK. A college radio station in Atlanta whose electronic music playlist, the bulk of their peak programming, is more akin to post WWII electronic avant-garde than to post-techno "IDM". It could also be seen as an evolution or continuation of the aesthetic that was evolving in the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's. Having a closer relationship to Steve Reich, Coum Transmissions, Cabaret Voltaire, and Foetus than Kraftwerk (That's not meant derisively. In my estimation Kraftwerk have the important and oft misinterpreted distinction of bridging the gap between academic electronic music and popular electronic music, popular being the operative word, specifically "dance" in all its post 70's Kraftwerkian flavors from New Wave to the latest incarnation of House/Techno/DnB) this is music that truly begins to blur the line between academic electronic music and popular electronic music by sheer number of up and coming practitioners and program directors potentially willing to accommodate them.
Electronic music's audience over the past fifteen years is getting older. Instead of watching them defect artists should be trying to find ways to grow with them, to cater to the tastes of their audience and what should have been from the start, their own tastes as well (assuming a maturing of one's tastes). It would be nice to see the evolution of the what was perceived as the anti-rockstar aesthetic of the early 90's. A rekindling of the relationship between electronic music and performance art would be a breath of much needed fresh air for an audience that has grown to want more than a DJ spinning records or lone "artist" twiddling knobs on a stage. I would rather see all this evolve into a new form of theater exclusive of rock-and-roll and the overblown vapid ponderousness of Broadway theater.
While I'm not saying that many of the people losing interest aren't poseurs I'm sure there are many who are simply bored with the same old thing and with "artists" who really aren't. Artists evolve and change, sometimes radically. For many who got turned onto electronic music over the past fifteen years it was seen as an exciting alternative to the tired sameness of the sound of RnR. The timbres used were different and, at times, the rhythm was different but after awhile its all started to adhere to a formula that, by definition, is no different than the RnR model.
I realize that dancing is one of if not the oldest form of creative human expression and this is after all Dancetech, so it can safely be said that we, especially on this website, like dance music. However, current dance music is dying in the same way that, for example, Ska died. One or two co-opted or prefabricated artists will remain as figureheads for the mainstream ala "No Doubt". Others, more true to the particualar tradition, will continue to carry the torch becoming respected but nostalgic acts - there will always be some incarnation of "The Skatalites" touring. Dance music will "go underground" but its the artists who choose to redefine dance music that will make it interesting again in no small part because of dance music's relationship with electronic music in general and because of electronic music's long history.
In redefining dance music I think it will be important to take into account electronic music's history and its relationship to Dada, the Futurists, the early avant-garde AND, perhaps most importantly, its overlooked relationship (accidental or premeditated) to nonwestern musics because while dancing implies rhythm, throughout the world those rhythms encompass a vast spectrum of metric division. Couple electronic music's inherent strength to redefine timbre and, through micro-timbral options on some commercial synths, experiment with tonality, to an acknowledgment of metric diversity and an opportunity can be created to redefine the rhythmic aesthetic thereby redefining contemporary "dance" music (from the standpoint of rhythm - I have always been amazed at the hold that the kick and snare timbres have on the popular rhythmic aesthetic). I think that the first step will come from artists who do not set out to create "dance music". I think that these artists will simply write electronic music outside current dance music convention that will inspire people to dance even without glowsticks and baggy pants.
Its happening on WREK. A college radio station in Atlanta whose electronic music playlist, the bulk of their peak programming, is more akin to post WWII electronic avant-garde than to post-techno "IDM". It could also be seen as an evolution or continuation of the aesthetic that was evolving in the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's. Having a closer relationship to Steve Reich, Coum Transmissions, Cabaret Voltaire, and Foetus than Kraftwerk (That's not meant derisively. In my estimation Kraftwerk have the important and oft misinterpreted distinction of bridging the gap between academic electronic music and popular electronic music, popular being the operative word, specifically "dance" in all its post 70's Kraftwerkian flavors from New Wave to the latest incarnation of House/Techno/DnB) this is music that truly begins to blur the line between academic electronic music and popular electronic music by sheer number of up and coming practitioners and program directors potentially willing to accommodate them.
Electronic music's audience over the past fifteen years is getting older. Instead of watching them defect artists should be trying to find ways to grow with them, to cater to the tastes of their audience and what should have been from the start, their own tastes as well (assuming a maturing of one's tastes). It would be nice to see the evolution of the what was perceived as the anti-rockstar aesthetic of the early 90's. A rekindling of the relationship between electronic music and performance art would be a breath of much needed fresh air for an audience that has grown to want more than a DJ spinning records or lone "artist" twiddling knobs on a stage. I would rather see all this evolve into a new form of theater exclusive of rock-and-roll and the overblown vapid ponderousness of Broadway theater.
While I'm not saying that many of the people losing interest aren't poseurs I'm sure there are many who are simply bored with the same old thing and with "artists" who really aren't. Artists evolve and change, sometimes radically. For many who got turned onto electronic music over the past fifteen years it was seen as an exciting alternative to the tired sameness of the sound of RnR. The timbres used were different and, at times, the rhythm was different but after awhile its all started to adhere to a formula that, by definition, is no different than the RnR model.
I realize that dancing is one of if not the oldest form of creative human expression and this is after all Dancetech, so it can safely be said that we, especially on this website, like dance music. However, current dance music is dying in the same way that, for example, Ska died. One or two co-opted or prefabricated artists will remain as figureheads for the mainstream ala "No Doubt". Others, more true to the particualar tradition, will continue to carry the torch becoming respected but nostalgic acts - there will always be some incarnation of "The Skatalites" touring. Dance music will "go underground" but its the artists who choose to redefine dance music that will make it interesting again in no small part because of dance music's relationship with electronic music in general and because of electronic music's long history.
In redefining dance music I think it will be important to take into account electronic music's history and its relationship to Dada, the Futurists, the early avant-garde AND, perhaps most importantly, its overlooked relationship (accidental or premeditated) to nonwestern musics because while dancing implies rhythm, throughout the world those rhythms encompass a vast spectrum of metric division. Couple electronic music's inherent strength to redefine timbre and, through micro-timbral options on some commercial synths, experiment with tonality, to an acknowledgment of metric diversity and an opportunity can be created to redefine the rhythmic aesthetic thereby redefining contemporary "dance" music (from the standpoint of rhythm - I have always been amazed at the hold that the kick and snare timbres have on the popular rhythmic aesthetic). I think that the first step will come from artists who do not set out to create "dance music". I think that these artists will simply write electronic music outside current dance music convention that will inspire people to dance even without glowsticks and baggy pants.
Message 7/37 09-Sep-03 @ 06:26 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
marianimal
Posts: 448
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Wow. That could be cool. I was just thinking about this middle eastern traditional group I saw that had the whole audience of a couple hundred clapping out the basic beat, while the drummers never actually play on those beats. The dancers or clappers must provide the skeleton, and the drummers put flesh on it, I spose. And I was wondering how that could work with sequenced electronic music. Hm. But yeah, you know, 6/8, that's a really danceable beat, even for westerners. Definately good to explore.
Message 8/37 09-Sep-03 @ 06:48 PM Edit: 09-Sep-03 | 07:04 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
"And I was wondering how that could work with sequenced electronic music."
I think that that is one of the things that must change about electronic dance music. I'm not saying that sequencing should be completely eliminated from performance - tape loops and reel-to-reel machines were (and still are) a tradition in electronic music before computer sequencing, however, I think the reliance on sequencers should be severely curbed to the point where not every piece an artist performs uses them. The sequenced electronic duo needs to give way to ensembles of however many performers are needed to accomplish the performance without relying on sequencers.
I recently saw this and was intrigued:
http://www.infusionsystems.com/press/computermusic96winter.html
An interesting discusison here:
http://beepsnort.org/archives/000039.html
I think that that is one of the things that must change about electronic dance music. I'm not saying that sequencing should be completely eliminated from performance - tape loops and reel-to-reel machines were (and still are) a tradition in electronic music before computer sequencing, however, I think the reliance on sequencers should be severely curbed to the point where not every piece an artist performs uses them. The sequenced electronic duo needs to give way to ensembles of however many performers are needed to accomplish the performance without relying on sequencers.
I recently saw this and was intrigued:
http://www.infusionsystems.com/press/computermusic96winter.html
An interesting discusison here:
http://beepsnort.org/archives/000039.html
Message 9/37 09-Sep-03 @ 07:12 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Hmmmm...
I think part of the beauty of techno (generic) is that it's essentially faceless, imageless and whole albums can be created by just one person.
While I do like the idea of stage shows, I think the idea of people just enjoying the music for music's sake rather than any idol worship is a far more important thing.
People should just enjoy the music, interact with the people around them and the DJ should just sit quietly in the background and not draw attention to themselves.
I think part of the beauty of techno (generic) is that it's essentially faceless, imageless and whole albums can be created by just one person.
While I do like the idea of stage shows, I think the idea of people just enjoying the music for music's sake rather than any idol worship is a far more important thing.
People should just enjoy the music, interact with the people around them and the DJ should just sit quietly in the background and not draw attention to themselves.
Message 10/37 09-Sep-03 @ 07:40 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
but the DJ isnt the artist, and the interaction of live show...genuine transfer of energy between performer and audience...or the lack of that interaction...maybe thats whats keeping/kept e-music from getting any further.
dunno...I sure miss the whole jamming thing. Dont miss the egos and attitudes tho
dunno...I sure miss the whole jamming thing. Dont miss the egos and attitudes tho
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