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Original Message 1/80 28-Jan-04 @ 05:13 PM - swing and groove secrets

James Burnett

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A question on swing and groove if anyones prepared to give up their secrets. You'll get good karma, I promise. How do you people go about injecting some groove in your club tracks. I've been using swing B in Logic and it works OK but I'm not entirely sure how to use swing properly. If I decide to move the 2 and 4 16th notes later by 21 ticks (swing B), then should I make sure that I use this swing setting on everything including all the drums and the bass and all the music?

I was reading that classic hip hop tracks keep the drums strictly quantised but swing the bass whereas classic funk tracks swing the drums but have a strictly quantised bass. I'm making (trying) underground house tracks and I reckon having everything strictly quantised is the best groove but this can't be right cos when I cut up all my favourite tracks (of CD, not vinyl), they seem to have some of their snares, percussion, etc that fall on the 2nd and 4th 16th notes (from what I can make out) on 21 and 41 ticks but when I attempt to do it, its sound sloppy and not tight.

Maybe I'm over analysing but surely groove can't just be about velocity and compression? How do you guys swing your tracks, have everything on the same swing setting or maybe slightly swing the main drums by say 6 ticks and swing the hats and shakers by 21 ticks? Do you think that�s the best way of looking at it?

I'm using my ears, I promise!!!

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Message 2/80 28-Jan-04 @ 08:16 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets

mcc>

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you're overanal~yzing.
every song is different and you should play with formula and then let it go
so to do something else next time.
it sounds like you're really letting things swing way out of sync if you're talking 41 ticks and such.

and...if you don't mind me asking.....are you the doctor?

he's a funny fellow....a man of disguises who just don't quit.
and he always comes here with the best of questions....and he promises! a lot.

he might even be up for an oscar this year if he can keep it up.

sorry for the intrusion....but i had to ask.

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Message 3/80 29-Jan-04 @ 01:59 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

Garuna

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Some tracks work with no swing at all: The beats seem to groove because of their respective percussive sounds. For example shakers have a soft attack and will often work with quantized beats because these beats have a harder attack. Sometimes alternating velocity will do it. Some tracks you can move beats wildly and it still seems to flow: I.e. the 4th beat later or the 3rd and 4th beat later than the snap. Often a mix of live drums (non quantized) and quantized beats create a groove. Experiment.

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Message 4/80 29-Jan-04 @ 03:21 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

mcc>

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and for best supporting actor even when the shoot is over.....

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Message 5/80 29-Jan-04 @ 03:52 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

Garuna

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Huh?

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Message 6/80 03-Feb-04 @ 05:41 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets

Noz

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For for the drums in hiphop style beats, by far the best way (IMO) is to hear the groove mentally and just draw it in by hand until it does what you want. It's not like there are more than a few bars to do anyway so you aren't saving much effort using the quantise.

Swing etc are useful for getting other bits like little arps etc in sync quickly but the interest in a swinging breakbeat is the slight offness which may change over 4 bars. You're not gonna get that using a preset.

Having said that Logic's presets are pretty cool for bouncing 4/4 housebeats.

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Message 7/80 04-Feb-04 @ 01:01 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets

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James... name some tracks with this 'swing'

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Message 8/80 04-Feb-04 @ 02:09 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets

DJ Cos

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What a crock of crap. Some people talk shit on DT. Some people talk sense. Don't you know that 41 ticks (Swing C) in Logic is THE classic house groove swing. There is even a London underground house producer called swing C Jeez��...

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Message 9/80 04-Feb-04 @ 05:44 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets

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yeah... but also we can read

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....hip hop tracks keep the drums strictly quantised but swing the bass whereas classic funk tracks ....

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now if he said House... well... I assumed he was talking something else - and mate - dont tell me to get a 'swing' in funk you just slap on some C groove in logic please

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Message 10/80 05-Feb-04 @ 09:06 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

dubmunkey

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can anyone tell me where the ticks/beats fall with this famous c-swing?

if a straight beat falls like this: 0, 24, 48, 72- what ticks do the beats fall on with the c-swing?

ive been using a couple of settings on mpc and would like to know how they compare and what this c-swing sounds like....

cheers

greg

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