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Subject: anyone else ever wonder?

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Original Message 1/107 19-Mar-04 @ 08:13 PM - anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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this is a post I threw up somewhere else. Didnt know what forum...go ahead and razz me if you think I chose the wrong one:

"I just spent the last few weeks doing some major changes in my studio setup. soundproofing, new desk, new audio interface.

and now I cant write jack shit. Ive had less and less hardware over the last few years, and my output has dropped significantly. The sound quality is much _cleaner_ now, and I have far more power at my disposal than ever before, but...

everything feels so cold and clinical now! That feeling of grabbing my old akai AX-60, juno106, waldorf pulse...gone. Now its just a mouse and a screen. I still have my virus of course, but somehow even that isnt as exciting anymore because I just make some sounds and then record them into cubase.

some of you are gonna shit their pants, but I actually kinda miss sequencing in midi. I dont miss HW sequencers, but...my old Atari Falcon! Yes, Im serious.

midi sequencing, realtime mixdowns (sending to effects, channel fades, playing with mutes)

I know Im definitely going against the grain here, as everyone is so in love with all that computers offer (heh, the thought of not having a UAD-1 anymore gives me the shakes I tell ya!)

but...anyone else think that maybe, truly, honestly, technology is slowly but surely removing the humanity from the music making equation?

Im not only talking about the "anyone can do it" aspect even though that is clearly true, but...just..the spontaneity, the hands on feel? the..."realness" of it?

oh and btw...nectarios..PLEASE...we know where you stand so...if youre gonna pull the "digital sucks" thing..just save it, ok? "

(the last part is for this guy there that CONSTANTLY throws his "yeah well, my ____ analog sounds WAY better than ____"

gets fckin old, so I dropped a preemptive strike on 'im

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Message 2/107 19-Mar-04 @ 08:27 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

milan

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i think know how you feel... get a knob box and twiddle away? maybe it will bring some of that hands on feeling back. oh... and some blank panels with built in leds, if it makes you feel better

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Message 3/107 19-Mar-04 @ 08:31 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

* compulsary

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atari = silence = bliss

*raises finger to the fans*

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Message 4/107 19-Mar-04 @ 08:56 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

GrooveMonkey

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Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. WHilst moving house I packed away all my hardware and was left wift just my pc, cubase and a bunch of plugs.

I worked like that for like 8 weeks and couldn't do jack! definately need to twiddle nobs and slide faders.

G

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Message 5/107 19-Mar-04 @ 09:37 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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thing is...the power available is hard to turn away from

even if the PC was used for just mixing..but even then...you have to track everything, and fckin cubase always puts a little bit of fcking silence at the front of files, so they need to be fixed after that

and this, that and the other thing

seemed like with the falcon and my keys and boxes..I just turned it on and went. I mean..it crashed once or twice, but...

this still doesnt quite hit at what my feelings are

milan..I dont think a knob box is gonna do it...you still have to set up templates, get the thing working with your seq, etc etc...

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Message 6/107 19-Mar-04 @ 09:52 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

milan

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yeah, but once you're done with programming you just fire it up and its there at your fingertips, almost like the real thing.

or fuck it... why not go back to your roots for sound sources? then track them and use the power at your disposal for trechnical tasks like mixing...

but what do i know... persionaly, i dont care what i use as long as it gets the job done. had a friend over for a first time few weeks ago and we got makings of a track going in a few hours using nothing but s/w. him banging on the keys with different sounds/samples, and me doing the techie shit in front of the pc. then again... i guess it might work as long as SOMETHING is there for the inspiration...like interaction of humans or interaction with gear helped by blinking lights... i'd agree that just sitting in front of a screen is not really inspiring in itself... feck if i knoiw... get some talking aibos for company or something :D

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Message 7/107 19-Mar-04 @ 11:41 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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a studio partner might help, but then theres the "chair" issue...

I dunno dude. might just be thinkin too much again

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Message 8/107 20-Mar-04 @ 12:22 AM Edit: 20-Mar-04 | 01:35 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

BluStudio

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*edit*

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Message 9/107 20-Mar-04 @ 12:29 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

steve

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both have thier downsides, I guess. a tidy hardware setup coupled with a fairly well stacked computer would be pretty much ideal, but once you've made the switch to mostly sw it's kinda hard to find the money and inclination to start filling the room with shit you've no space for again.

my way around the problem has been just to leave everything to gather dust and do something else instead.

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Message 10/107 20-Mar-04 @ 01:01 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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go snowboarding

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Message 11/107 20-Mar-04 @ 01:37 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Pongoid

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the thing is that computers just are not that much fun to jam on. great composing tools, but there's just something about getting totally stinky on hardware, jammin knobs, buttons, sliders, and the visual thing as all these little lights and screens talk to you while the circuits sing. You know it's true.

Ape

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Message 12/107 20-Mar-04 @ 01:57 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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yeah, Id have to say I agree.

its all about the middle ground, I know...just gotta figger it out.

thinking about it doesnt help, thats for sure

btw...trippy track you posted with the evolver. a bit too...heh...techno...sounding for my tastes, but interesting for sure

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Message 13/107 20-Mar-04 @ 02:17 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

nyte333

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for me its the leds. And the rack mounting. I mounted my computer in a rack so I would like it more. Helped a bit. I like the compartmentalized nature of hardware. a dead hd isnt going to kill everything. And the OS of hardware doesnt decide to fart for like half a second randomly every now and then. And I'm not tempted to email or play games or surf the internet on my hardware. and installing a new piece of real hardware doesnt affect everything else in a bad way if the drivers arent completely friendly. I mainly like the pretty lights though. The pulsating LFOs of the virus are great. Reminds me of the space shuttle console I always wanted when I was a kid.

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Message 14/107 20-Mar-04 @ 02:21 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

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yeah, snowboarding, or a trip somewhere. clear the old head out. gotta have shit that inspires you to play. I like bangin' on shit. bang on yer bass!

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Message 15/107 20-Mar-04 @ 02:59 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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i think with hardware it's this sense that you're almost surrounded /
outnumbered sort of and it's like okay> you little fokks....you're gonna listen to me> and they're blinking back at you going huh?!
you got this mess of wires and they all gotta go somehwere and end up making sound.

whereas with the software stuff.....all these things are already in their box pre-cabled for you...they're not gonna jump out at you or surprise you tooo much.

it really is psychological but sterility of environment may be conducive towards creativity for some but a doctor's office is not where i prefer to rock.

thinking back on the crazy energies of the animals, hendrix, stones....imagine richards out of his mind with a cig dangling as he mumbled through his wailing riffs and...mick pouting and rambling.....all in a doctor's office?
i don't think so.

maybe you oughtta think in terms of trying to wreck the place.

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Message 16/107 20-Mar-04 @ 04:17 AM Edit: 20-Mar-04 | 04:26 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

sitar

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you're right Influx. Wrong forum. This belongs in the PC Music forum.

Hope that helps :P

Seriously maybe things would've been different for me had I had space for things like a Juno and a space where I could really play out without worrying about neighbors. Maybe things would've been different if I had someone to seriously collaborate with and learn from to fill in my weaknesses and visa versa. But apart from those 'might haves' I don't think music is going to die because it's become computer do-able. In the last few years those of us who've been working on music via puter have kind of been the guinea pigs for a totally new era which is just beginning to arrive. I think with P4s and directX 9 things are starting to get there. Certainly in 50 years nobody would think of doing music another way except for the odd collector here and there. Personally, although my tracks have sucked, I still love doing music on a computer.

But still none of the last paragraph changes the fact that this belongs in the PC Forum.

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Message 17/107 20-Mar-04 @ 09:41 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Purple Haze

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I don't know if this belongs in the pc forum.

Last time I moved (year and a half ago) I didn't hook everything back up. Not even half of the channels on my desk (24 mono 4 stereo) are in use right now. My equipment takes about 7-8 square metres of floor space and it will have to be cut down to about 2 because in a few months I'm going to be a dad and my working space will be moved to the living room because I want to give the kid it's own proper space right from the time it's born.

This means having to really cut down on my equipment, leaving 1 or 2 keyboards, getting a smaller rack with wheels I can slide under the desk and probably getting a smaller mixer too. But then, I haven't been using much of it lately so although it emotionally sucks that I'll have to make music not surrounded by my gear, practically it's what I've been doing for the last one and a half year.

And although I've missed for example the crunchyness of my roland W30, I can't be bothered anymore to convert every sample to 14bit/30Khz W30 format, put it on floppy, load it in the W30, make a program for it before being able to use it. Or when I want to work on another track taking 30 or so minutes to write down mixer channels/patches used/fx box settings and adjusting everything for the new track. It feels like having to do a total check up of your car each time you want to drive it.

Now, am I less productive ? I guess not. I've never been very productive though. I also never confined my ideas to 1 genre but have made triphop, trance, techno, dnb, idm, breakbeat, ambient...

Ohwell... I'm babbling here. Basically what I think I want to say is that 'real' gear gets the creative juices flowing more easily and works faster in the heat of the creative process, but the software aproach works easier and faster in general.
Unfortunately the best ideas and most exquisite moments in a track are being created in the heat of the creative process.
I think also that part of the problem of the soft-studio is that there's so much softsynths and fx around, and if you translate the average soft-studio to a 'real' equivalent you're probably in a room full of gear where most of it only gets used for one track or even never at all, and everytime something new gets released that looks halfway decent it's added to the room and you can't help playing with it and a lot of time is wasted just keeping the room tidy and playing with the new equipment. I sometimes think for example my zoom 1201 fx box, althought it's noisy, is the equivalent of at least 20 fx plugins, while the zoom only has 6 knobs and 1 switch, 20 plugins are a lot messier (and even slower) to work with. But you can use a lot of them at the some time while there's only 1 zoom 1201 (well, actually I've got 2 but you get the point).

I *think* that the future in software studio's lies in softsynths/samplers/fx having a dedicated hardware control surface. Not just some general knob/slider box but more dedicated control gear. Or maybe modular systems with sliders/knobs/buttons/leds/lcds so you can design your own control surface.

Summary::
I'm full of shit... it's too early to think clearly... need some coffee first... I don't have the answers Influx, but I know what you're saying.

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Message 18/107 20-Mar-04 @ 10:51 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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you know...part of it?

musicality.

somehow...direct interaction seems more conducive

Im really diggin clay's analogy about the doctors office. Like back in the 50s when they were testing psychedelics, and they were doing it in these white, clinical rooms...

errr...ok.

"think about breaking stuff"

"bang on your bass"

yup...back to square one, sorta?

d...Ive talked to you about this shit..and its not a new mindframe for me. I think too much, I know

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Message 19/107 20-Mar-04 @ 03:40 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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another thing i recommend for inspiration is to break out-of-the-box for musical inspiration by listening to stuff from foreign sources. styles of music which you haven't paid close attention to.
right off the bat, i'd recommend a fair dose of african music....and i'm not talking reggae. the way rhythms and melodies interweave in surprising manner....often around very basic motifs.
this might inspire some experimentation on your own.

another thing i recommend is simply playing the keys with no beat or nothing but the simplest of beats.
stop writing tracks for a minute and simply make music. explore. enjoy the process of making sound happen on the black&whites as if it's ALL ABOUT learning new things.

when you get fired up by some small discovery (and sometimes it comes down to two notes)....then go for it....build on that.
then wreck the joint.
to put it simply...always try new things.

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Message 20/107 20-Mar-04 @ 04:15 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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and if african music is too inaccessible for you....there's always a lot to be gained from a good dose of the celtic.

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Message 21/107 20-Mar-04 @ 08:18 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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another thing one might consider doing for a bit of inspiration is to check out the stories of some of the great early composers...i.e. beethoven, mozart, brahms etc.....
see what they went through...what their lives entailed and what it meant for them to want to create music on an ongoing basis.

and ask yourself what your relationship to music is.

is it a groovy thing which makes you part of a cool scene?
or is at a way to make some dough...get chicks?
...or is it a way to cry to the universe? or cry FOR the universe? or laugh>
or to show how great your licks and chops are?
what a genius you are.
or what?!

hopefully at some point you're making stuff...the universe laughing and crying with you to your phat and varied beats and sounds.
and the ghosts of the old guys nodding their heads too.

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Message 22/107 21-Mar-04 @ 11:17 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Me!

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Im currently workin on a prog which can allow you to control anything midi with anything else midi. If you could hit a button, move a harder slider (or knob or whatever) then a software slider and have em instantly connected would that help a bit? im working on making the pc music thing as quick and spontaneous as possible. i know how ya feel so i would welcome any ideas as to how a music making experience should be.. Im also working on a live midi sequencer for pc (basically 'abelton live!' for midi with the intention of making live acts with pc as spontanteous as possible).

Ideas anybody?
How does automatically transposing patterns activated by keyboard presses sound? what about live recording of loopable midi patterns which are of course automatically transposed? Hmm I could even make it transpose to different scales (traditional, blues). The basic codes there... just the hard stuff that needs doing! I'll finish it one day!

Whatta ya think?

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Message 23/107 21-Mar-04 @ 11:22 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Me!

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Oh and unlimited tracks at extremely low latencies of course!
At last check i couldnt even measure latency in my prog (it was too low < 1ms). Guess it wont stay that way if VST's and stuff are added though (but still very low of course!)

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Message 24/107 21-Mar-04 @ 04:34 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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automatic transpose by selectable buttons would be very cool!!!....like 2 buttons in either direction up or down..... from your mouse or computer keyboard.

also...if it's possible to heighten the visual equation by say having a small row of leds (tiny) for each midi channel. whereas a single-note kick might flash one led.... chords might flash a couple and rapid arpeggios or hat/snare patterns might have 3 or more lights blinking to the patterns.
i know it sounds silly but it just adds to the fun and adds to the input/stimuli reminding you where your activity is at.
a small window with a moving squiggly-wave indicating controller message...is that too much?

rewiring ableton live and reason together is nice where you can have all these meters bumpin at different intervals.....especially with 2 reason mixers going atop each other.....it can get quite fun.

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Message 25/107 22-Mar-04 @ 12:03 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Audio Alchemist

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I feel like i cant do sh*t when I try to stay rock steady on one genre. Sometimes I will make a hip-hop beat, sometimes ambient, mostly deep house, but if I become too rigid on what I produce I feel like the fun is gone. Thats what it is..fun, no?

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Message 26/107 22-Mar-04 @ 04:44 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Optofonik

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Influx, if you're using a laptop I would suggest taking it out of the studio to compose. When it comes time to arrange and mix then settle back down in the studio. I can't adequately describe how inspired I became once I started using plugins outside the studio environment. Everything changes - literally, you find yourself in environments that are constantly in flux and out of your control; all you can do is continue to write or stop and take it in for a time while real life moves around you, enveloping and influencing in sometimes subtle sometimes drastic ways the entire creative process as its happening. While this may sound distracting its not because you are forced to direct your concentration on either the inspiration around you or the product of that inspiration in your headphones and on the screen in front of you. There is an immediacy to the process - no longer do you need rush back to the studio after being inspired by something out in the real world. In front of you isn't a blank wall nor is the world framed by a window and kept at distance, you are in the middle of it all - its there with you.

Since my laptop's memory slot crapped out on me I don't have enough memory to do anything more taxing than word processing and all my hardware is in storage now. Guess what I miss more.

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Message 27/107 22-Mar-04 @ 11:00 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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nah influx, not everyone here loves pc based music composition....

im happy with my hardware set up...il use a pc for fine edits, as a tape recorder and for stuff that hardware cant do as well like the waves noise removal stuff....but i never use a pc when composing music...your not alone...

one of my mates used to rock the rm1x...he was good on it but then his psu broke and he's been playing with pcs since and now his music is just shite....cold, uninspired, ok clean but he just cant get it with a pc....then again the opposite is probably truer for most people...

also my uncles mate who is one third of the space monkeys has recently given up on music production stating that the days of doing it all in a mac are boring him...and he is a pro and his latest release i love so i believe in him....

ill trade my mpc/mixer/juno for fan noise/software conflicts/keyboard-mouse combo any day.......for me pc's will only be worth using when they've sorted out the control interface...

my two penneth

greg

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Message 28/107 22-Mar-04 @ 08:44 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

craig

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Another devoted hardware guy here.. I would just find it really hard to bring myself to fire up the PC to make music with... So much more satisfying to flip on the Nord and start playing

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Message 29/107 23-Mar-04 @ 12:49 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

roller8

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You did some soundproofing? nice.

I can't seem to get into the plugz approach too much. But I gotta say that the DR-008 is dope as sh!t

Anyway, got me that new desk and painted the walls a color other than white. Got some dim, softer lighting and some heavy curtains. And passing some things through those Electrix boxes is just like champagne for my creativity - it adds a sparkle to the day.

Even tho I may not use anything that comes out of them lots of times.

Thing that messes me up the most is feeling disconnected from listeners. I mean, if I feel like no one knows what I'm doing then I really don't exist musically speaking, right? That's the real downer.

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Message 30/107 23-Mar-04 @ 01:33 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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well roller8....that's why WE'RE here> and the birds up above....

bang it out.

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Message 31/107 23-Mar-04 @ 02:03 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

chroma

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yeah back to basics!

the power supply on my pc blew up. i made a few half hearted attempts at writing on my kawai q80 and my hardware (sampler, analogs etc). it sucked. i got to work with acid 3 on my old amdk6 pc (128mb ram) and just a cd of old loops. i also installed cubase 3.75 and used xgedit with my crappy waveforce soundcard. just loops and xg sounds, no vsts no nothing. been writing more than i have in months. just churning out loop after loop. now i have quite a few bits to dump to my hardware rig when i get my main pc up.

funny how i was happy with this setup for years, just wanted a *little more power. hten i got the power and you know the rest

i dont think spontaneity/lack of has anything to do with knobs, sliders, hardware, plugs etc. which is what milan said i guess

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Message 32/107 23-Mar-04 @ 02:39 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

xoxos

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Me!

transpose is good - key/scale force is nice - don't know if you've seen my arp2midi or q generators, but my suggestion is go for a complete no-source sequence generation system.. (and add some maqamat and non-western scales

zone the keyboard to switch between various params, add mode/chord forcing motif generation stuff.. working on a new vsti environment for this stuff.. atm i'm thinking i want to have sequence generation work on a dual sequence system, guaranteeing that one sequence with have a nice cross-rhythm with at least one other.

my goal atm is to quit making stuff and do music again.. but the two go very nicely together..

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Message 33/107 23-Mar-04 @ 03:08 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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yeah...stop building stuff and make music again.

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Message 34/107 23-Mar-04 @ 08:04 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

cydonia cell

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I've finaly caved and started mixing and doing some track sequencing on PC. But I could never create there.. it's so stagnant, structured... there's something profoundly disappointing about always thinking everything through before you do it.

With hardware, sometimes, the amazing stuff happens because you're rockin' out... the gear moves with you, and you have to respnod in real time. It makes a HUGE creative difference.

Look at this way, painting got way more creative with the advent of photography.

Not being able to be perfect is what best brings forward the humanity of creativity.

e

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Message 35/107 25-Mar-04 @ 12:29 PM Edit: 25-Mar-04 | 12:32 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

sitar

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nothin new here, but if you listen to Bach there is a lack of drama compared to Beethoven. In Bach's time they composed a lot on and wrote a lot for harpsicord. Harpsichord has 2 volume levels (or was it clavichord?) loud and soft so they never thought in terms of swelling to build up or gradually softening the music and having levels in between. Also the notes played on a harpsichord didn't sustain so each note is disconnected from the ones around it. Bach was brilliant at writing counterpoint and harmony but was very much confined compared to Beethoven in the above sense and his music was molded by what he had to work with. It's very obvious when you listen to the 2 composers. The piano was invented just before or during Beethoven's life. Beethoven could think and compose in terms of what a harpsichord could do with the huge addition of notes that could melt into eachother when he wanted them to, and volume which could gradually increase and decrease within a volume range and note range that was much broader than it's predecessor.

We are very influenced, inspired, and sometimes thwarted by the tools we have to work with. Choose them wisely.

And I'm sure that both Bach and Beethoven would've insisted this thread belongs in the PC Music forum.

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Message 36/107 25-Mar-04 @ 12:48 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

milan

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heheh... great thread guys, just what was missing around here lately!

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Message 37/107 25-Mar-04 @ 12:49 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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great points sitar....so what do you reckon beethoven would use a mac or pc?

greg

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Message 38/107 25-Mar-04 @ 12:57 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

milan

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i dunno, but i BET he'd be doing some euphoric trance!

(and miles davis would kick herbie hancock's ass by doing a better dnb album!)

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Message 39/107 25-Mar-04 @ 02:28 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

RagnarOk

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The crazy thing is my preferences toward a creative environment are continously changing. There are times when the best for me if I render evrything into audio and arrange those parts, but other times I really need everything in realtime, so I can modify every tiny bit in a song. And I usually end my "fruitless" periods with changing my approach (although sometimes I just have a month or two, when nothing good comes out).

But I've used software and only software and that will probably stay that way. (I'm afraid of complex things when it comes to making music.)

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Message 40/107 25-Mar-04 @ 02:34 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

xoxos

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"..there's something profoundly disappointing about always thinking everything through before you do it.

With hardware, sometimes, the amazing stuff happens because you're rockin' out... the gear moves with you, and you have to respnod in real time. It makes a HUGE creative difference.

Look at this way, painting got way more creative with the advent of photography.

Not being able to be perfect is what best brings forward the humanity of creativity."

so that's how you're going to cut me, eh? i think in my entire history of midi composition, it has been my process to create what i envision.

you're telling me i can't envision something w/o it being stagnant? now i know you're not going to tell me that...

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Message 41/107 25-Mar-04 @ 06:07 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

cydonia cell

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Nope, I'm not going to tell you that. I am instead going to clarify... I'm simply saying that the persuit of perfection is childish in that it's based on an insistance that this shit be exactly what we expect it to be. That's not to say that we shouldn't make it as good as it can be... indeed everyone I've worked with has been frustrated at my refusals to tolerate "good enough" in the studio. And however we do it, it's the result that moves us. And, I'm no friggin' jazz masturbator who feels that the magic only happens when we get in the "zone" or some other silly crap. We can MAKE magic!!!

My comment wasn't meant to be taken so literaly... fundamentalist interpretations are usualy furthest from what humans actualy mean. But I did mean that getting "clinical" in our music by excersizing these tools too meticulously throws out the organic aire of human creativity. Which is sometime's cool in and of itself.

And.. back to my photo/painting analogy... Prior to photography the pursuit of most artists was to make things as lifelike as possible... even to the extent that they simply COPIED what the saw in reflections! Creativity was subtle, and often hidden in the pursuit of "exactly" what they saw. We can learn from that in music. The tools for music making are literaly democratizzing genuis these days... every one has the opportunity to plum those creative waters.... I'm simply saying that we can abuse those tools by insisting on shoehorning the creative process into our preconceived notion of what we want our music to be... or we can tap that "thing" that so many creative people point to, by allowing the muse to work within us.

And I am suggesting that too firm a hand on the wheel might be just what causes our creativity to go careening out of control and leaves us with these little noizy tunes that do very little to excite the spirit in those who listen!

that's all

e

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Message 42/107 25-Mar-04 @ 11:19 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

panama

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I'm at the point where my setup is driving me nuts! Octave Cat, Juno-106, Sh-101, Korg MicroKorg, JV-3080, and a ER-1!!! With so many synths it's getting to be a bit complicated in a small bedroom (time to sell!). I'm at the point where I want things to be clinical; white room example. But, I still like the amateurish feel of geared piled around a room. hmmmm... Maybe I just need organization... lots o keyboard stands, mixers, patchbays and crap... I prolly spend 15 % of the time setting up gear, getting things right, disconnecting cables, problem-solving, mic placement, all that crap.

I'd say go back and get some old gear! not much to lose when you buy gear and sell it back for the same price.

I think a lot has to do with focus of the mind. You got a nice chair, a nice computer monitor, and a nice desk, all ya need now is a mind that can focus and forget. 100's of times I'd just sit and tool around for hours doing nothing when I know in the back of my mind, I'm not focused. 90 % inspiration sir. The setting usually doesn't inspire you, nor should it. Sure, some musicians go off to far countries and become inspired... but the lot of us dont have that... we just focus the mind and use that inspiration we get from other places (mind, soul, life, people). Lots of folks like famous ones, goto a forest or a bridge or an ocean and write lyrics, guitar music, and such... does that apply with us? Just gotta use the inspiration and go after things.

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Message 43/107 26-Mar-04 @ 12:04 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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i quite like the mess the array of gear i have causes.....its the best looking corner of my room.....

greg

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Message 44/107 26-Mar-04 @ 01:30 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

sitar

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Something nobody's touched upon here...you can't rest a beer can on Albino.

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Message 45/107 26-Mar-04 @ 02:06 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

craig

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From: panama
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Date: 25-mar-04 - 11:19 pm
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I'm at the point where my setup is driving me nuts! Octave Cat, Juno-106, Sh-101, Korg MicroKorg, JV-3080, and a ER-1!!! With so many synths it's getting to be a bit complicated in a small bedroom (time to sell!). I'm at the point where I want things to be clinical; white room example. But, I still like the amateurish feel of geared piled around a room. hmmmm... Maybe I just need organization... lots o keyboard stands, mixers, patchbays and crap... I prolly spend 15 % of the time setting up gear, getting things right, disconnecting cables, problem-solving, mic placement, all that crap.

I used to have this problem, so I spent a good amount of time getting everything wired up to patchbays with the cabling running in nice, neat bundles, all in racks where it's easy to get at. The rack synths are accessible from the keyboards and the racked recording type stuff is an easy reach from mix position... It's really worth doing. Now I don't spend hardly any time in "setup", unless I'm actually recording parts from the synths and utilizing multiple outputs.

-Craig

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Message 46/107 26-Mar-04 @ 02:19 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

a pedant

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Just a note re the above Bach/Beethoven thing; the piano was readily available in Bach's lifetime too but he just preferred the sound of his clavi, which also allowed for variable dynamics on a smaller scale.

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Message 47/107 26-Mar-04 @ 04:03 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

xoxos

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> Nope, I'm not going to tell you that. I am instead going to clarify... I'm simply saying that the persuit of perfection is childish in that it's based on an insistance that this shit be exactly what we expect it to be.

hmm.. dude. i'm not speaking against your method, but look at it from my point of view -

one time i took some mushrooms, and this big ball of noise drifted out of the sky - sounded like 2 jet engines slightly off beat with each other with harmonic beating going on..

we had a conversation that translated thoughts directly into musical phrases. real phrases, eg. i sequenced some of them.

that's how i work with music - i get a concrete image in my mind and then i recreate it. there's no need ot call it childish or anythnig jsut because it's not the method you use.

it seems like your use of terminology accepts the imperfection of life - mine accepts the perfection. maybe my tunes don't do it for you, but they do it for me, and occasionally for others. i just wanted you to know you're wrong about your 'recreation is bad' thing you're on here, cos it's not always bad.

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Message 48/107 26-Mar-04 @ 06:32 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

cydonia cell

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you're right, the childish thing was flippant, and dismissal. Totaly unnecesarry. Sorry.

I tend to wax on about my notions like they're facts that we all must live with. I don't believe that! Whatever works is great.

Ultimately, i believe that there is an inherent perfection in everything that we muddy up with our opinions (yes I get it that that's an opinion as well). My approach is in allowing it to be perfect without getting so far into forcing perfection on it that I screw it up with my bullsh+t. That's all.

e

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Message 49/107 26-Mar-04 @ 09:43 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

jeffy

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I'd like to take the idea of listening to different music a bit further, by suggesting going to show that you might not normally go too. World music or jazz is usually sufficient for me. (Check out your local university for free concerts, its always a good source.) I find that getting my ass out of the house and checking out what other people do differently is always an enlightening experience. Not only that, usually a good show is enough to get me excited about new projects, more often than not, it get me REALLY excited. Plus its fun.

I saw a middle eastern trio a few month back and still get chills just thinking about them. Just a dude on tablas, a dude on sitar and a girl on the cello. Way simple but so different I couldn't wait to get back to my studio at the end of the night.

Word

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Message 50/107 26-Mar-04 @ 09:47 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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good idea

I think Ive been too myopic lately, and...a lot of the stuff in the "scene" Im in is...well...getting pretty fcking boring

mediocre or worse DJs playing mediocre music...

and yeah, I kinda miss the live thing.

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Message 51/107 27-Mar-04 @ 09:18 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

roller8

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I've been spending a lot of time listening to and going to world music type shows. It's really changing my whole view on how I feel about music and the creation of it. I mean the diversity of the world at large really lifts off the invisible boundaries that your creative mind has about what sounds good, what's acceptable to the audience and what I scrap and keep from my writing sessions.

It may not make you write faster, or more etc etc (then again it might) but it can sure raise the level of the creative patterns IMO. At least it has for me. Plus seeing and experiencing what humans have done and are still doing musically with the most rudimentary instruments is mind blowing and a reminder of the power you have sitting in your seemingly modest or even inadequate studio...

Good advice up there. I hope to be on the prolific wagon agin very shortly.

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Message 52/107 29-Mar-04 @ 06:51 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

jeffy

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Of course, when I have a creative slump it usually means I'm not smoking enough marijuana...

Ok, only kidding.

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Message 53/107 29-Mar-04 @ 12:44 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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of course.....there came a time when everything failed to make sense and one of those was my reason for doing music. i was convinced i completely sucked and had no right to even suggest i had anything to offer and was merely going through the motions etc.
so i disconnected every piece of wire and equipment and disconnected the pc for about 3 months....and read and absorbed film.

i think reading is a great source of inspiration.
kesey
vonnegut
huxley
adams
terkel
twain
vidal
all the old yippies
biographies of the great and notorious
etc.
probably our richest source of knowledge is the cheapest and still the most-neglected.

of course...nothing tops personal pain and tragedy for inspiration....
but that's not something you can turn on and off like a switch.

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Message 54/107 29-Mar-04 @ 03:26 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

craig

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Yeah, I second that. I've been pretty inspired by Tolkien and Frank Herbert lately... Not that I'm going to start making Hobbit music

But the scale and depth and detail of their work captivates me.. I try to make my songs as detailed and captivating too.

Obviously I'm no Tolkien

but I have fun trying.

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Message 55/107 29-Mar-04 @ 04:25 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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big sf fan myself at one time.....i still have tons of books i should sell.

you ever check out ursula le guin?

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Message 56/107 29-Mar-04 @ 06:48 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Battleship

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disconnecting really isn't a bad idea.

(this thread has kept me thinking all weekend.)

If you feel like you have too much control over shit, maybe you need to handicap yourself. Make a song with only a sequencer and drum machine, or try doing something without drums all together. Try making only childrens music for a bit. I had a friend you only let himself sample classical music. Try that. Try sampling only records that you can buy in a 50 cent bin. Write only in alternate timings.

I'm also a big believer in playing with others. If you can play guitar or something, even a bongo drum or some shit, find a couple of buddies and jam. You don't have to make anything of it, but it might help you break out of your zone and let you enjoy the creative process in new ways.

Personally I think it is difficult to program with others, unless you have two people working with relatively close setups, but running live instruments and jamming on a simple tune that everybody knows can be done in an afternoon.

Do your friends suck and think that a jam session is lame? Ditch em and go join a taiko drumming group. Find a capoira school and see if you can drum with them. Take a course in piano technique at a community college. Sit in with a choir. Just get yourself out of the studio for a while and make music in different ways.

Your in a rut. Crank the wheel a bit and get off road.

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Message 57/107 29-Mar-04 @ 07:05 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Audio Alchemist

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Nice thread influx...
I have read a few posts within the forums of people producing tracks live w-h/w.
I love working like this and almost always do. Definately more creative flow..for me anyways.

xoxo..got any more shrooms? =)

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Message 58/107 29-Mar-04 @ 07:11 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

cydonia cell

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AHhhhhh, Craig

Beware... Tolkein Rock died in the 70's....

Yes, ELP, hell even Led Zeppelin were guilty. Don't go down that moss covered road!

;)

e

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Message 59/107 29-Mar-04 @ 09:18 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

craig

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No no no, I'm not interested in making music that's lyrically inspired by these works.. There's too much juicy shit in the here and now

Besides I don't write lyrics.

-Craig

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Message 60/107 29-Mar-04 @ 09:50 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Battleship

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I think, if gear manufacturers sold little trained monkeys to do all the stupid crap we have to do--like trim samples, set up gains, dial through all those lame factory presets that suck, pack our bongs, alphabetize or records, hit the reset buttons on the power strip, do our laundry, etc--everything would be a whole lot better. When are they gonna come out with those?!?

Ok sorry, I'm not helping again...

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Message 61/107 29-Mar-04 @ 10:09 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

battleship

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Oh yeah, and as for all the people who did tolkien rock, you can't forget the KLF!

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Message 62/107 30-Mar-04 @ 01:13 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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did they have hairy feet too?
: )

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Message 63/107 30-Mar-04 @ 08:18 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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tolkien rools....tolkien rock doesn't (even though i love led zep!)...i could def be inspired by tolkien but it wouldn't be elves, orcs, the fall of numenor etc...moreover the landscapes and countryside it all happens in....

his dark materials was v inspiring

currently reading the dark tower by s king (hhhhhmmmmm am not quite sure about this one)

greg

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Message 64/107 30-Mar-04 @ 03:03 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

craig

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I love that series. In fact, I just love Stephen King. Also read The Talisman and Black house (they go together), and also Eyes of the Dragon and The Stand. All of these books, and a few more (it's been a few years) all fit together into a grand scheme of sorts with the Dark Tower series.

Great shit. I still have Nightmares and Dreamscapes sitting on the shelf I haven't read yet..

-Craig

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Message 65/107 30-Mar-04 @ 04:03 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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i think the DT series has to start to deliver (apparantly WOTC does) but yeah have heard they are all inter connected....my mates gonna read the stand to get a proper handle on the whole flagg thing.....

its a bit confusing though when he sets himself in these stories...couldn't the hero's of the DT series just pick up the DT books to see what happens to them?

luckily they'll never make a film of them (soooooo wouldn't work)

greg

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Message 66/107 30-Mar-04 @ 05:07 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

battleship

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Funny you guys are reading DT. I just picked up the series again and I'm right in the middle of book four. I don't know what king was trying to do with three, cause that story sucked serious ass, (a talking train? whatever!). Books one and two, I thought, were pretty good, and four is doing a bit to redeem some of that with all the prehistory stuff, but I'm still pissed about that stupid talking train.

What's all this stuff about putting himself in the story, is that in five? nevermind, I'll find out soon enough. If its as lame as the talking ing train though, I'll be really upset.

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Message 67/107 30-Mar-04 @ 06:02 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

milan

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Dark Tower eh? i just finished book five, read them all in the course of last 10 years or so

talking train? aw come on, blaine the pain was cool!

ya... i think king is just trying to connect all the stuff he wrote together, like some greater masters have done in the past, but dunno if he can pull it off. apparently *he himself* will be in the next book which comes out in summer. whether or not he pulls it off, DT makes for a nice read (and a nice acronym. lol!)

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Message 68/107 30-Mar-04 @ 06:05 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

milan

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oh btw... stephen king is the only writer i know who puts real world music and songs into his books, copyright tags and all... and supporting his favorite artist in that way. respekt!

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Message 69/107 30-Mar-04 @ 06:52 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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get your own thread, geeks

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Message 70/107 30-Mar-04 @ 07:54 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

battleship

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Hey what do you guy think of the new Harry Potter?!?

Sorry influx, I couldn't resist...

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Message 71/107 30-Mar-04 @ 11:33 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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I REALLY liked the first two Dark Tower books. third got lame IMO, havent read since

The Talisman is one of the most incredible stories Ive ever read

King used to be able to express the depth and breadth of the human experience incredibly

to be honest..right around misery/dark half/dolores claiborne I lost interest

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Message 72/107 31-Mar-04 @ 04:56 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

overheard

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King just wasnt the same after his accident....

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Message 73/107 31-Mar-04 @ 08:31 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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battleship- i soooo agree. no spoilers but although the idea was lame and he did nothing with it to make it great....

i havent read book five yet but in book two eddie makes reference to the shining....

greg

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Message 74/107 31-Mar-04 @ 08:34 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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blaine let the whole thing down as it was built up through the whole book then v quickly dealt with and it just seemed like an easy vehicle (sic) to get the guys half way accross mid-world....

me and my mates have argued loads about this- they liked blaine buit still thought the beginning of book 4 was a cop out....

anyone read the revised ed of the gunslinger? i started with that and well basically it gives away half of book four...wasn't happy i tell thee.....

greg

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Message 75/107 31-Mar-04 @ 02:44 PM Edit: 31-Mar-04 | 02:45 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

craig

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Wow, I can't agree that King's gone downhill.. Dreamcatcher, Tales from a Buick 8, Insomnia, and Black House were excellent books. Black House ties into the gunslinger books as well. Influx, Dark Half is one of my favorite King books.. But I admit I'm not much for his early "horror" fare, like It and Christine...

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Message 76/107 31-Mar-04 @ 02:55 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

Optofonik - AKA, mick, rhyze, etc.

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Clay, I like your idea about immersing oneself in other mediums like cinema & literature. Perhaps I should look at my current situation as such an opportunity becuase at the moment it just depresses me.

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Message 77/107 31-Mar-04 @ 03:10 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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craig you read the silmarillion? the begginning of that has to be my most inspired tolkien moment....

greg

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Message 78/107 31-Mar-04 @ 03:16 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

xoxos

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*whatever you do* just make sure you select a medium composed entirely of other people's thoughts presented to entertain and allure you into making their commercial choice/product... stay away from anything nature and creativity! god forbid you step outside of the giant chain of yucky human regurgitation *yawn*

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Message 79/107 31-Mar-04 @ 03:19 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

xoxos

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it's like that stupid fucking pink floyd song (as if those adjectives were necessary..) with the robot saying "just keep talking.." because if you don't, no one can tell when you might come up with a new idea that would threaten their livelihood of selling you old ideas so you're all comfy and can fall asweep pwoperwy at beddums.

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Message 80/107 31-Mar-04 @ 07:02 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

jp mac manus not the horse owner

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Read Dr Zhivago and you will know the meaning of life.

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Message 81/107 31-Mar-04 @ 07:11 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

battleship

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No no, catch 22...

Snowden's big secret, that's the meaning of life.

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Message 82/107 31-Mar-04 @ 09:54 PM Edit: 31-Mar-04 | 09:55 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

craig

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I've read the Silmarillion, and the Unfinished tales as well, but I'm not so big a geek as to read the rest of the Christopher Tolkien books... Wanker making money of of his dead dad's old notebooks if you ask me

Anyways, there're some really great stories in that book... I love the story of Turin and Glaurung especially.

I did also really like the concept of the whole universe beginning as music, and evil arising from dischordance.. Very cool concept.

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Message 83/107 01-Apr-04 @ 02:02 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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mick....i think whatever you step out of and into should be done in a spirit of earnestness and innocence....and, without question, with the goal of breaking free of anything which grants you the right to depression.
be it camping or the ballet....the deeper the immersion the deeper the reward.

as for guilt....screw that x....unless it's in your basic nature.
it's of little value unless we're passing-the-plate.
but if it's change you're after for aesthetic reasons...i say by all means go for it.

sent ya something btw....for aesthetic reasons and perhaps even as thanks...
mind you!

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Message 84/107 01-Apr-04 @ 02:14 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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of course you can't read stephen king and know who studs terkel is.

i'll give it up for the dead zone.

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Message 85/107 01-Apr-04 @ 11:13 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

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craig thats exactly what i was talking about- the creation of the universe through music....awesome concept!!!

wonder how that would have sounded?

greg

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Message 86/107 01-Apr-04 @ 12:59 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

dub-munkey

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i read the first book by chris as it is the silmarrillion but told in a more descriptive narrative style- cant see me reading all 12 though-

yeah i thought that story was damn cool too! also the one about (is it?) hourn? basically the other amjor siege story...

cool stuff....

currently the DT series is turning into a bit of a matrix 3.......soooo many big promises......little delivery...

greg

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Message 87/107 01-Apr-04 @ 04:53 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

xoxos

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"it's of little value unless we're passing-the-plate."

you mean like when you buy/rent entertainment or absorb advertising?

and would one of you "that sounds nice, music is good, dischord is evil' like to explain dischord to me in a nice, objective fashion?

is it like that industrial moaning crap you lot listen to?

you know what's evil matey, is bloody good. it stinks.

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Message 88/107 01-Apr-04 @ 05:02 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

craig

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Oh, it's not a philosophy I subscribe to, it's just a story....

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Message 89/107 02-Apr-04 @ 08:05 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

brains.

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Ahh I like this thread, alot of different opinions from a varied range of humans, all into different styles of music, and all having different opinions about hardware and software. Alot of nonsense in this thread, but it made me laugh... Alot of truth in this thread tooo... I think people have to realise that yes, everybody has an opinion, and that we just have to respect peoples opinions for what they are. For example,

I understand how people love their hardware, after all if it wasnt for hardware, there wouldnt be software? lol does that make sense?

Software comes from hardware, or is it hardware comes from software? im confused, this thread is making me think.. Farr out man, all I ever do is think, maybe i should make some music ?

example, alot of stuff is hapening in the world right now, alot of stuff is happening to me both physically and emotionally , I honestly find no better way to escae\pe from all the shit, (excuse the french) then to start up cubase, start up your controllers, start up fruity, start up whatever takes your breathe away, and concentrate on the one thing that makes you not concentrate lol. music?>

dont listen to me, im a useless person with no idea about music, and no idea about reality.

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Message 90/107 02-Apr-04 @ 08:07 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

brains

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YAY HARDWARE AND SOFTWARE !!!!!! IVE FOUNDED THE ANSWER

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Message 91/107 02-Apr-04 @ 01:28 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

sitar

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"craig thats exactly what i was talking about- the creation of the universe through music....awesome concept!!!"

Still doesn't answer the primal question about the universe. Was the universe created with hardware of software? Whichever, I believe it was created shortly after a big sale at one of the major music chains. Certainly you've heard of "The big bang for you buck" theory.

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Message 92/107 02-Apr-04 @ 04:48 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

battleship

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Brain, I think you need another bong hit...

...but I agree with you, this is a great thread.

Word up Influx. I think you've become a bit of a cult leader here. This thread is gonna be your manifesto.

...hey, have any of you ever gotten really, really stoned and listened to Del La Soul's Three Feet High album?

...Ok sorry. Once again, I don't think I'm helping.

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Message 93/107 02-Apr-04 @ 09:01 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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heh. thread aint even mine anymore!

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Message 94/107 03-Apr-04 @ 01:07 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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no one NEEDS a bong hit.

it's our thread.

i got ghosts to prove it.

music before technology.

spirit before hardware.

life before the alternative......

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Message 95/107 03-Apr-04 @ 05:05 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

battleship

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mcc,

True, bong hits really shouldn't be required for most of us, but I think Bush NEEDS one, so he can get of his rampage for a bit.

But maybe that's just me.

BS

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Message 96/107 03-Apr-04 @ 11:30 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

beds

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'fluxie a cult leader?

how's the porn music going influx? ;)

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Message 97/107 03-Apr-04 @ 03:15 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

xoxos

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you got work doing porn tunes? where?

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Message 98/107 03-Apr-04 @ 10:08 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

influx

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I was putting together a demo but didnt get it done in time...

I guess my heart wasnt in it. or something like that

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Message 99/107 04-Apr-04 @ 08:09 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

mcc>

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perhaps you came down with a temporary bout of self-respect.

that can be a good thing occasionally.

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Message 100/107 04-Apr-04 @ 09:49 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

beds

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he pulled out early

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Message 101/107 04-Apr-04 @ 10:58 AM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

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___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 102/107 04-Apr-04 @ 03:20 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

xoxos

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heart? all you need for porn music is the desire to make crap, the desire to get a paltry check for it and the desire to influence the receptive unconcious...

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Message 103/107 04-Apr-04 @ 03:22 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

beds

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where do i sign up?

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Message 104/107 05-Apr-04 @ 04:48 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

sitar

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I did a porn track once. let's start an anti-pornmusic band called condomnation.

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Message 105/107 05-Apr-04 @ 07:19 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

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porn is porn
art is art
you can�t combine these to

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Message 106/107 05-Apr-04 @ 07:25 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

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meaning you should never create art for the money alone
porn and commercialism is about the explotation of souls
Art is about the fullfilling of ones dreams and hopes

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Message 107/107 05-Apr-04 @ 08:09 PM - RE: anyone else ever wonder?

beds

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not everyone wants a chipendale

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