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Forums - Music techology
Subject: Cakewalk over VST
Viewing all 12 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
Original Message 1/12 14-Aug-98 @ 06:38 PM - Cakewalk over VST
No, thank God I don't own it for the PC, but I have to say that Kilo was right, VST has a very
pretty colourful setup but does seem to be very crappy on performance. I bought the Producer Pack
and after checking up on it(WEb,stores) I returned
it right away before I could start messing with its potential problems. My opinion is that some
music manuf. do not take the PC platform very seriously or why would they release such sloppy
software, is it just to satisfy all the people who
own a PC, give us all a bone to feed on, then get
right back to work there MAC stuff!!!, making sure that baby runs JUST Perfect....
So anyway I got Cake 7 - and its pretty good - the
latency thing sucks and the Pitch to Midi thing is
a fucking joke. I would rather they put more into
audio stuff and skip a little on all those 'features' , anyone agree. SAW and Samplitude look
interesting - but aren't really MIDI sequencers.
All in all it is good , has a more sterile look about it - I guess they spent more time on actually making the thing work then painting pictures.
To recap just a bit, I don't know, but around me
most musicians swear by the Mac and look at me funny cause I use a PC, they always point out that
pros only use Macs(I have to say this seems to be true from what I've read) so whats going on ??
Responds and comments very welcome
pretty colourful setup but does seem to be very crappy on performance. I bought the Producer Pack
and after checking up on it(WEb,stores) I returned
it right away before I could start messing with its potential problems. My opinion is that some
music manuf. do not take the PC platform very seriously or why would they release such sloppy
software, is it just to satisfy all the people who
own a PC, give us all a bone to feed on, then get
right back to work there MAC stuff!!!, making sure that baby runs JUST Perfect....
So anyway I got Cake 7 - and its pretty good - the
latency thing sucks and the Pitch to Midi thing is
a fucking joke. I would rather they put more into
audio stuff and skip a little on all those 'features' , anyone agree. SAW and Samplitude look
interesting - but aren't really MIDI sequencers.
All in all it is good , has a more sterile look about it - I guess they spent more time on actually making the thing work then painting pictures.
To recap just a bit, I don't know, but around me
most musicians swear by the Mac and look at me funny cause I use a PC, they always point out that
pros only use Macs(I have to say this seems to be true from what I've read) so whats going on ??
Responds and comments very welcome
Message 2/12 14-Aug-98 @ 06:53 PM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
Good point....after adding another soundcard to my system I'm finally able to run making waves and rebirth together.
Unfortunatly my little Cyrix chip just can't hang! I have 40megs of ram.....So how fast of a processor/ram do I really need so I can twist virtual knobs and just go about my business without a hangup? Itr does this with cakewalk too!.......
Unfortunatly my little Cyrix chip just can't hang! I have 40megs of ram.....So how fast of a processor/ram do I really need so I can twist virtual knobs and just go about my business without a hangup? Itr does this with cakewalk too!.......
Message 3/12 14-Aug-98 @ 08:03 PM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
Well, I do know somehow, someway you have to get a Pentium
Pro or P II with MMX to really have a decent setup. You
know the friggin Macs have the Motorola chip with dual
backside cache etc., this makes them good for Digital Audio and Effects processing - that chip handles well. I'm
not to keen on the other alternatives to the P II on PC,
what I mean is I don't know enough about them just yet.
As you know get 64 ram - SDRAM is fast, you all know this already I'm sure.
Still curious about others comments On Cake, VST and Mac and PC stuff(see 1st message)
Pro or P II with MMX to really have a decent setup. You
know the friggin Macs have the Motorola chip with dual
backside cache etc., this makes them good for Digital Audio and Effects processing - that chip handles well. I'm
not to keen on the other alternatives to the P II on PC,
what I mean is I don't know enough about them just yet.
As you know get 64 ram - SDRAM is fast, you all know this already I'm sure.
Still curious about others comments On Cake, VST and Mac and PC stuff(see 1st message)
Message 4/12 15-Aug-98 @ 01:20 AM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
it's an option... sequencers, and limited audio facility sequencers fiunction OK... so do audio mutitracks... it's the new midi & audio stuff that sucks the power... but they may suck PERIOD!!....... I really dunno..... there is of course... the wunderbar ATARI FALCON with Cubase Audio running 16 tracks... SoundPool do an 8 output unit... scis is standard for adding audio drives & cdroms etc.... it works..... yup...with 10 or 14mb RAM !!.... you mix on a mixer.. or use the built in stereo In-Out...(similar to mac quality standard audio connections...minijacks).... it works... it is cheaper than a mac... and it's cubase.....mac's?... i'm getting bloody tempted I tell you !!... Cake -7 seems the best PC alternative... it is an OK proggie really.... and I find it ok, apart from the totally shite drum editor..... however...whilst working on Cubase atari the other day... i started to miss the Cakes ability without changing edit tool, to move a note across or up/down/.... hmm... it's just the velocity thing that is a pain... but you can put drum patterns on different tracks...... compose it, then re-compile it... you can use that SPLIT-NOTE.CAL to dump the drum notes for each drum on a new track......I also MUCH prefer the Cakewalk audio file handling.. it is faster.... I dunno... I'd prefer VST.... simply cos I know it.... but I can live with cakewalk.... give the Pc another year I reckon....I mean a P2 300 with 128mb, and a 9 gb scsi drive ...plus boot drive and all the rest with VST or cake-7 now is about 1600..... that is favourable for what it MAY give you... compared to a Mac price for a similar system.... VST timing is not so great on the mac apparently.... compared to Logic.....
Message 5/12 16-Aug-98 @ 03:55 AM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
Well, to tell you the truth Kilo, I have a strong attachment to my PC and cause its a bit of the underdog at
the present time(I know its getting better) I really do
want to see it gain a bit more respect. I think the PC needs a Pro Tools type of thing, its seems Cake 7 is the most powerful MIDI/Audio program out there and still doesn't support 24 bit. We need to get away from this Soundblaster bullshit and get real stuff in there, more of
this mentality could only help the PC music community not hurt it.
Kilo I'm figuring you have lots of gear, Do you own a Mac
or what and if not do you want one ? , be honest.
Also Macs are getting cheaper here in the US, my guess that they may get cheaper over there in the UK.
the present time(I know its getting better) I really do
want to see it gain a bit more respect. I think the PC needs a Pro Tools type of thing, its seems Cake 7 is the most powerful MIDI/Audio program out there and still doesn't support 24 bit. We need to get away from this Soundblaster bullshit and get real stuff in there, more of
this mentality could only help the PC music community not hurt it.
Kilo I'm figuring you have lots of gear, Do you own a Mac
or what and if not do you want one ? , be honest.
Also Macs are getting cheaper here in the US, my guess that they may get cheaper over there in the UK.
Message 6/12 17-Aug-98 @ 12:47 AM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
well, frankly.... i'm getting right fucked off with PC's, now that we've gone beyond the single streo card output s/wares... you can use SoundScape.. it works a treat.... does it's own audio processing, and has built in hard drives etc..... not cheap of course.. but not too over the top....... but yes.. I am frankly thingking of a mac now at last... simply because i like to work fast and efficeient... but.... from the stories I've heard, the mac is no better frankly for running vst as far as timing goes, and has many problems of it's own........ so i dunno...... I have to visit my mates VST/Gina/P2 system I rebuilt to see what it's going like now he has new drivers etc.... if i can run it all day... it doesnt glitch to fuck when i record incoming midi as a loop's playing... if it doesnt crash... if it runs with SOLID midi clock... i may get a P2.... otherwise, frankly, I'm looking at a Falcon with 14mb ram, and cubase audio with a big scsi drive, and a SoundPool 8 out unit... anyways.. I'm off down to system Solutions fater my holiday to check out ALL of this junk in a head-to-head tester day.... in the end, frankly i couldnt give a flying fuck if the falcon is older, and doesnt have pluggins and all that shite.... what I want is reliability, coupled with the best timing... and no glitching or missing notes when i record something live.. (cos that is my fav way to work)...... buty I'm fucked if I'm gonna spend 1500 quid just to find out if the system I choose works ok !!.... then again... I WOULD prefer to stick with a PC frankly... but there is too much complication now to windows... to many versions... to many possible configs... too many active-x versions etc etc etc... and lets face it... we're the bloody ginuea-pig testers now... fore the s/ware AND hardware companies now !!!,..... any answers??.......either that, or I'll stick with Cakewalk.....
Message 7/12 17-Aug-98 @ 04:05 AM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
So, it appears to me you're a bit confused and pissed at the same time with all this gear out there and the 3 million possible configs. Well, you really should just get
the system that will make you get your music done, fuck
all the extras and all the hype, cause I think VST gets too much fuckin hype,(Pro Tools seems to deserve it a little more). But I myself am thinking about the high end hardware stuff (Layla,Audiowerk,DSP factory) cause I know
it relieves the CPU of some hassle and work, in a situation like that maybe the computer of choice is less of an issue. Sure I would be curious to operate a Mac, and
by the way I totally agree about Windows and things, the operating system is too flimsy and mass consumer based for PCs. I mean I got the WIn 98 upgrade in the mail and have not installed it, probally won't fo a while. Its all the fuckin Internet Explorer which sucks balls, pure bollocks, shite, whatever, thats my opinion. And all it does is load stuff into memory and system checks which is awful for recording music. We can't have all that overhead.
The truth is, for me at least, is there are soo many programs, plug-ins and great hardware and stuff, I can't seem to actually get anything done cause all of it gets to
me, too much information. I hate pouring money into something if there is something better out there sometimes. REsearch, research, oh fuck it all right ?
the system that will make you get your music done, fuck
all the extras and all the hype, cause I think VST gets too much fuckin hype,(Pro Tools seems to deserve it a little more). But I myself am thinking about the high end hardware stuff (Layla,Audiowerk,DSP factory) cause I know
it relieves the CPU of some hassle and work, in a situation like that maybe the computer of choice is less of an issue. Sure I would be curious to operate a Mac, and
by the way I totally agree about Windows and things, the operating system is too flimsy and mass consumer based for PCs. I mean I got the WIn 98 upgrade in the mail and have not installed it, probally won't fo a while. Its all the fuckin Internet Explorer which sucks balls, pure bollocks, shite, whatever, thats my opinion. And all it does is load stuff into memory and system checks which is awful for recording music. We can't have all that overhead.
The truth is, for me at least, is there are soo many programs, plug-ins and great hardware and stuff, I can't seem to actually get anything done cause all of it gets to
me, too much information. I hate pouring money into something if there is something better out there sometimes. REsearch, research, oh fuck it all right ?
Message 8/12 17-Aug-98 @ 07:00 AM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
The problem with Cubase is that it started out as an
Atari program(right?) that was ported to the mac and
then ported to the PC. That's why it runs like shit on
the PC while Cakewalk runs good. Cakewalk has always
been a PC only product(I'm pretty sure). Steinburg needs to just start from scratch with a TOTALLY re-wrote version of Cubase for the PC. Come to think of it, I think that ALL the major sequencers except for Cakewalk
we're wrote first on Mac and then ported to the PC.
THAT'S the problem! (porting)
Anyway, I'm ready to just go the hardware route. I wish
I could live with Cakewalk but it's drum editing sucks.
Cakewalk is wrote for making dumbass conventional music
from what I can tell. It doesn't seem to work the way
that I want to work(and cubase doesn't work all that much
like how I want to either!).
Atari program(right?) that was ported to the mac and
then ported to the PC. That's why it runs like shit on
the PC while Cakewalk runs good. Cakewalk has always
been a PC only product(I'm pretty sure). Steinburg needs to just start from scratch with a TOTALLY re-wrote version of Cubase for the PC. Come to think of it, I think that ALL the major sequencers except for Cakewalk
we're wrote first on Mac and then ported to the PC.
THAT'S the problem! (porting)
Anyway, I'm ready to just go the hardware route. I wish
I could live with Cakewalk but it's drum editing sucks.
Cakewalk is wrote for making dumbass conventional music
from what I can tell. It doesn't seem to work the way
that I want to work(and cubase doesn't work all that much
like how I want to either!).
Message 9/12 17-Aug-98 @ 07:00 AM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
The problem with Cubase is that it started out as an
Atari program(right?) that was ported to the mac and
then ported to the PC. That's why it runs like shit on
the PC while Cakewalk runs good. Cakewalk has always
been a PC only product(I'm pretty sure). Steinburg needs to just start from scratch with a TOTALLY re-wrote version of Cubase for the PC. Come to think of it, I think that ALL the major sequencers except for Cakewalk
we're wrote first on Mac and then ported to the PC.
THAT'S the problem! (porting)
Anyway, I'm ready to just go the hardware route. I wish
I could live with Cakewalk but it's drum editing sucks.
Cakewalk is wrote for making dumbass conventional music
from what I can tell. It doesn't seem to work the way
that I want to work(and cubase doesn't work all that much
like how I want to either!).
Atari program(right?) that was ported to the mac and
then ported to the PC. That's why it runs like shit on
the PC while Cakewalk runs good. Cakewalk has always
been a PC only product(I'm pretty sure). Steinburg needs to just start from scratch with a TOTALLY re-wrote version of Cubase for the PC. Come to think of it, I think that ALL the major sequencers except for Cakewalk
we're wrote first on Mac and then ported to the PC.
THAT'S the problem! (porting)
Anyway, I'm ready to just go the hardware route. I wish
I could live with Cakewalk but it's drum editing sucks.
Cakewalk is wrote for making dumbass conventional music
from what I can tell. It doesn't seem to work the way
that I want to work(and cubase doesn't work all that much
like how I want to either!).
Message 10/12 17-Aug-98 @ 08:57 AM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
Ah... BUT IT IS TOPS FOR CONTROLLER STUFF AND the like.... i did find i missed the abiliuty to drag a note around after inputting it on cubase... but there ya go...... I think all this simply says is.... NO-ONES MADE A DECENT SEQUENCER FOR DANCE MUSICIANS.... that does what we want it to..... however, i have no probs with cakewalk 5... cake-7 is ok too, although a bit more delicate i find.....as I said... I'l have to check it out on me mates gina system.... I've gotta get it going for september whatever i choose.....
Message 11/12 26-Aug-98 @ 10:34 PM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
This is waht I did.. I bought a MPC2000 studio model for Sequencing, and Midi control. I am using my PC with a mixer and a Turtle Beach Maui Surround 64. With the mixer you get the 1/4" jacks you need, and the digital out for samples to go into the MPC. You all might want to check out the Hardware accelerators to support PC based sample editing (Wavelab or Cool edit), and get the extra outs to do CD mastering and connecting other external hardware.
I agree, its A LOT of information. Took me months to figure out what I need. However I agree, for sequencing, use hardware. Its more direct, and don't "forget" waht your idea was when you had it! Hardware also had better timing.
Anyone have any other thoughts?
Motai
P.S. Kilo--Thanks for putting up this site, and getting me up to speed with all of this stuff!
I agree, its A LOT of information. Took me months to figure out what I need. However I agree, for sequencing, use hardware. Its more direct, and don't "forget" waht your idea was when you had it! Hardware also had better timing.
Anyone have any other thoughts?
Motai
P.S. Kilo--Thanks for putting up this site, and getting me up to speed with all of this stuff!
Message 12/12 30-Aug-98 @ 05:54 PM - RE: Cakewalk over VST
I have cubase on a 8600/200 powermac and I'm just getting into it. Timing problems I've yet to encounter -- does
one do the effects to master track and reimport, thereby
sparing CPU? Is that the workaround? Because I assume
it's effects that gum up the works...also: anyone got 4.0?
one do the effects to master track and reimport, thereby
sparing CPU? Is that the workaround? Because I assume
it's effects that gum up the works...also: anyone got 4.0?
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