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Subject: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

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Original Message 1/12 19-Dec-03 @ 04:20 PM - Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

hkrydell

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Ok, here goes the long winded question about latency issues and the PC. First, here is my system:

1. Computer: PC with an AMD 1.1Ghz board, 512 MG ram, Win XP, a inexpensive Mad Dog sound card.
2. Hardware: USB Midiman 2x2, E-MU XK-6 controller keyboard, Triton Rack
3. Software: Reason

Now, here are my questions regarding latency from the pc and midi (the guys at my local music store don't seem to agree or even be correct on some of these issues).

I am having a serious latency problem triggering the sounds in Reason from my keyboard. I have changed latency settings etc., but can only get down to about 40ms. I don't know the best solution, so I am asking you smart people for help.

At first, I thought it may be my USB midi connection, since USB be is fairly slow. Then I realized there are too many USB midi products for this to be the issue or they wouldn't make them. Now I have concluded it is either a sound card or processor speed problem or both. Would a better PCI sound card such as M-Audio solve this or a Hardware /Firewire system like MOTU 828. Does Firewire work well, compared to a good PCI audio card? And do the dedicated PCI audio cards handle all or most of the audio processing or is my CPU taking the brunt of the power hit?

I am planning on buying Cakewalk Sonar 3 as my main sequencer/audio program (using Rewire to connect Reason). I know the audiocard is a major culprit. But I don't know that just upgrading the card will solve my problem and I would hate to shell out the money for a card or hardware and not have the problem go away.

I won't be really be using this set-up to do any serious multi-track HD recording, so I don't think my HD speed should be an issue for now (or am I wrong about that?). I am mainly looking to sequence the audio and midi from my hardware and softsynths in Reason, etc. I am also looking for a better mixer, and have read that the MOTU 828 can handle that as well (for my computer audio), but am not sure that Firewire is the way to go.

Do you know of any good solutions? Firewire based, Audiocard based. Do I need a faster CPU?

Sorry for soooo many questions, but I want to get this straight once and for all.
I look forward to your replies, as I have yet to find the definitive answers to some of these questions.

Thanks in advance.
Headkick

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Message 2/12 19-Dec-03 @ 04:41 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

hkrydell

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One other thing I should be clearer about - The Latency I am getting is the time it takes from me hitting a note on my keyboard to the activation of a sound or sample on my computer. Thanks again

Headkick

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Message 3/12 19-Dec-03 @ 04:42 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

Yonce N Mild

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It's your soundcard a 1.1 ghz processor isn't exactly blazing fast by todays standards but it is more than enough.

For example I have two computers that I use regularly one in my laptop from work 1.4ghz pentium m 512 mb ram the other is a desktop that I built myself Athalon 1.4ghz 512 mb ram. similar machines but one huge difference I have a m-audio delta 44 in my desktop and the latency isn't even an issue even after piling on the softsynths and effects I can't remember exactly but I'm thinking it was around 8ms ....can't even notice. With my lappy I can't even do one softsynth without crackeling at 30ms with the crappy built in soundcard.

A new soundcard would make a world of difference Iv'e heard good things about the motu but I don't think you even need to spend that much loot to drop your latency to a reasonable level.

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Message 4/12 19-Dec-03 @ 05:56 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

hkrydell

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Thanks for your insite. This is the kinda info and help I was looking for.
HK

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Message 5/12 19-Dec-03 @ 06:33 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

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it'lll be the soundcard - the midi might get in quick, but the issue here is the time it takes for the audio to get transfered to the card & out of the card converters - there's your latency.

try a Hoontech dsp24/96 value package or a delta audiophile or something like that...

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Message 6/12 19-Dec-03 @ 06:54 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

queasy00

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just to let you know there's a bunch of audiophile's on ebay for 150. they juuust ended but the guy still has like.. 8 of 'em left.

-j

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Message 7/12 19-Dec-03 @ 09:50 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

hkrydell

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Thanks for the tip queasy.

HK

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Message 8/12 19-Dec-03 @ 09:57 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

psylichon

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That's standard retail price for an audiophile tho innit? I bought one over a year ago for that price from zzounds.

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Message 9/12 19-Dec-03 @ 10:16 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

queasy00

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shrugs.. cheaper than what it retails here in canada.

-j

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Message 10/12 19-Dec-03 @ 10:17 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

hkrydell

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I think I am going to go for the m-audio delta 44 as -Yonce N Mild- suggested. Good price ($229) and solid specs. It will do for my needs at the moment. Thanks for all your guys help so far. Still curious as to the speeds of firewire based hardware compared to PCI cards. USB audio devices (not midi) seem useless to me. Any thoughts?

HK

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Message 11/12 19-Dec-03 @ 10:45 PM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

psylichon

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at work, we regularly stream up to 64 tracks of 24bit/96k audio from a firewire drive (if it's defragged), so the format is definitely up to the task of audio recording.

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Message 12/12 20-Dec-03 @ 12:29 AM - RE: Latency and PC/MIDI/CARD/USB

Optofonik - AKA, mick, rhyze, etc.

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I'm going to add my problem to this instead of starting a new thread. I would like to try using softsynths using a keyboard (Oxygen?) with my laptop, a 600mHz PIII.

As soon as a part is recorded to a MIDI track in Cubase I'll be rendering it to audio so I won't have a lot of synths running at the same time and I'm rather minimalist so 16 tracks (8 stereo) will be the max. My latency using sofsynths with the US428 is abysmal but I don't want to blow the farm on another interface; stereo, 16 bit, 44.1 is all I need. I have USB1 integrated into the lappy and an Orange Firewire cardbus adapter so I can go either way. What are my options if any? I'd like to keep the price around $200.00US.

I can't really afford another lappy so if that's the issue I'll stick with actually writing the music in Cubase as opposed to performing it on a keyboard. I'm not saying that's a bad thing because it forced me to think differently and use an entirely new (for me) approach on my last four pieces but I would like to take what I learned from that and apply it using a keyboard. It may not work for all I know, I may fall back into the same habits and end up returning what ever interface or interface/keyboard I try, but I'd like to give it a shot.

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