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Forums - Music techology
Subject: SH-32: yet another warning.
Original Message Date: 18-Dec-03 @ 04:54 AM Edit: 19-Dec-03 | 02:09 AM - Roland SH-32: yet another warning.
I know, I'm a gear whore. Whatever. Here's the thing, if a piece of gear looks like a good deal ($200.00 or less) I'm not averse to checking it out. The DX200 and AN200 are good examples of what happens in these circumstances. The next series of pieces I'll be working on will include them. They will not, however, include the SH32. Oh, I also like to "find out for myself".
I read the reviews. Filter stepping was a big concern for most but it seemed to only show up when using the knobs in real time. When using the LFO's or filter EG I didn't detect a problem. The problem for me is not having enough modulation options to overcome the inability to use knobs to create complex "envelopes" using real time tweaking while recording to MIDI. Perhaps I could draw envelopes into the sequencer tracks and to overcome the limited resolution of the knobs. So, the filter resolution doesn't seem to be the problem, its the knobs. Someone corroborate or rebut, I have no intention of going into Cubase and start drawing envelopes when I have other gear that doesn't require me to do so.
Assuming you CAN draw complex envelopes into your sequencer tracks and overcome the knobs resolution one would be led to believe that this is a classic, "if you have more time than money...", situation. Fair enough.
So, okay. We got a tasty long form envelope going, the kind of thing that evolves over a period of four or five minutes, constantly changing and becoming as much a part of the piece as the melody. Oh but wait, you aren't interested in melody. The envelope acts as a surrogate melody. Being a bit experimental eh? Perhaps a little ring & PW mod, sync the oscillators, and throw in over the top wicked rez. Hmmm, not so much maybe. Sync = no filter. It also makes the patch monophonic. I can actually live in a monophonic world, however, because there are so many other things to try out besides harmony. But wait, there is EVEN MORE! Ring mod = no PW mod!
Look, to be fair, I read about these limitations but I thought to myself, "So what, surely there will be other things to compensate for such limitations." Heh, heh. Ho ho. Hee hee hee. HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW......
"Bob, as if all the above weren't enough...."
Not only is the filter unavailable during sync BUT when it is available it will provide you with CLASSIC digital distortion at certain settings, certain settings which are wholly, that's right, COMPLETELY unpredictable (well I guess you can call saying, "anytime I go for something like an long or extreme filter sweep I can predict that at some point, several actually, it will distort", a sort of prediction).
In the digital world we now live in there is one cardinal rule that can never be broken, it's breaking creates that which has no redeeming value, no workaround, it cannot be "used creatively". It is a one dimensional phenomenon whose character is implacable, unusable. Digital distortion is NOT acceptable and no amount of justification will ever change that.
So I hereby add my opinion to the long list opinions about the SH32. The long list of negative ones. The SH32 has no redeeming value. Honestly, I and many others can lived with a lot of things when finding a synth for $200.00. Digital distortion will never be one of them. It would have been nice to even be able to say, "If the more conventional dance oriented stuff is what you're going for, as opposed to experimental sounding noises from the ether, then this will be a passable synth." but I can't. I'll say it again, "digital distortion". Roland knows what a Romper Room no no digital distortion is. There will be a good number of sixteen years old kids this Christmas that don't. By the time they figure it out their "30 days" will be long gone. Shame on Roland for not recalling every single one of these units.
I read the reviews. Filter stepping was a big concern for most but it seemed to only show up when using the knobs in real time. When using the LFO's or filter EG I didn't detect a problem. The problem for me is not having enough modulation options to overcome the inability to use knobs to create complex "envelopes" using real time tweaking while recording to MIDI. Perhaps I could draw envelopes into the sequencer tracks and to overcome the limited resolution of the knobs. So, the filter resolution doesn't seem to be the problem, its the knobs. Someone corroborate or rebut, I have no intention of going into Cubase and start drawing envelopes when I have other gear that doesn't require me to do so.
Assuming you CAN draw complex envelopes into your sequencer tracks and overcome the knobs resolution one would be led to believe that this is a classic, "if you have more time than money...", situation. Fair enough.
So, okay. We got a tasty long form envelope going, the kind of thing that evolves over a period of four or five minutes, constantly changing and becoming as much a part of the piece as the melody. Oh but wait, you aren't interested in melody. The envelope acts as a surrogate melody. Being a bit experimental eh? Perhaps a little ring & PW mod, sync the oscillators, and throw in over the top wicked rez. Hmmm, not so much maybe. Sync = no filter. It also makes the patch monophonic. I can actually live in a monophonic world, however, because there are so many other things to try out besides harmony. But wait, there is EVEN MORE! Ring mod = no PW mod!
Look, to be fair, I read about these limitations but I thought to myself, "So what, surely there will be other things to compensate for such limitations." Heh, heh. Ho ho. Hee hee hee. HAW HAW HAW HAW HAW......
"Bob, as if all the above weren't enough...."
Not only is the filter unavailable during sync BUT when it is available it will provide you with CLASSIC digital distortion at certain settings, certain settings which are wholly, that's right, COMPLETELY unpredictable (well I guess you can call saying, "anytime I go for something like an long or extreme filter sweep I can predict that at some point, several actually, it will distort", a sort of prediction).
In the digital world we now live in there is one cardinal rule that can never be broken, it's breaking creates that which has no redeeming value, no workaround, it cannot be "used creatively". It is a one dimensional phenomenon whose character is implacable, unusable. Digital distortion is NOT acceptable and no amount of justification will ever change that.
So I hereby add my opinion to the long list opinions about the SH32. The long list of negative ones. The SH32 has no redeeming value. Honestly, I and many others can lived with a lot of things when finding a synth for $200.00. Digital distortion will never be one of them. It would have been nice to even be able to say, "If the more conventional dance oriented stuff is what you're going for, as opposed to experimental sounding noises from the ether, then this will be a passable synth." but I can't. I'll say it again, "digital distortion". Roland knows what a Romper Room no no digital distortion is. There will be a good number of sixteen years old kids this Christmas that don't. By the time they figure it out their "30 days" will be long gone. Shame on Roland for not recalling every single one of these units.
Message 11/13 18-Dec-03 @ 03:27 PM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
well...there's one tight bass-sound i like which i still want to use.....and a handful of leads.
no i don't think this one was about being the wright brothers and going to too many new places.
but it's fun quotient isn't totally non-existant either.
i'd think if that's where you really wanted to go...you'd check the fizmo or reactor...or even absynth.
no i don't think this one was about being the wright brothers and going to too many new places.
but it's fun quotient isn't totally non-existant either.
i'd think if that's where you really wanted to go...you'd check the fizmo or reactor...or even absynth.
Message 12/13 18-Dec-03 @ 06:11 PM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
didn't follow your s/w experiences, but it beat the hell outta me why you didn't just d/l pure data or cps or synthedit or ??
Message 13/13 19-Dec-03 @ 02:06 AM Edit: 19-Dec-03 | 02:15 AM - RE: SH-32: yet another warning.
Xoxo, I have synthedit and few other software synth erector sets that I'm testing but at $200.00 and I figured the SH-32 wouldn't be stocked for long. I bought the Yamiiies for the same reason but when I test drove them I found them to be a real steal at the price. They didn't stay in stock long so I'm glad I didn't wait because used ones go for more than I paid new.
Clay, Absynth is a cruel piece of software, its one of my favs now. I haven't had a chance to play much with Reaktor.
The irony here is that I held off on experimenting with softsynths and FX for a long time. Having writen everything on "The Well Tempered Oscillator" with softsynths has made me very picky about hardware ones. There are so many routing options with the softsynths I've used that any lust for hardware ones is tempered by my softsynth experiences. My hardware synths are currently quivering in their keyboard stands and racks, waiting for the day when I can afford a blazing fast laptop and low latency interface.
As far as the "digital distortion" its clipping. I should have explained that a little clearer but I literally went from testing it to the rant.
< Look its Mick last night!
"Think his head will explode???"
"Whew, I hope not because as fast as its spinning it'll be a horrible mess all over."
"Quick, COVER THE GEAR!!!
Clay, Absynth is a cruel piece of software, its one of my favs now. I haven't had a chance to play much with Reaktor.
The irony here is that I held off on experimenting with softsynths and FX for a long time. Having writen everything on "The Well Tempered Oscillator" with softsynths has made me very picky about hardware ones. There are so many routing options with the softsynths I've used that any lust for hardware ones is tempered by my softsynth experiences. My hardware synths are currently quivering in their keyboard stands and racks, waiting for the day when I can afford a blazing fast laptop and low latency interface.
As far as the "digital distortion" its clipping. I should have explained that a little clearer but I literally went from testing it to the rant.
< Look its Mick last night!"Think his head will explode???"
"Whew, I hope not because as fast as its spinning it'll be a horrible mess all over."
"Quick, COVER THE GEAR!!!
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