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Forums - Music techology
Subject: mixer confusion
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Original Message 1/17 13-Sep-98 @ 04:32 AM - mixer confusion
buggo
Posts: 8
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on my CR-1604, i'm kind of perplexed by a lot of the routing options...there's all the FX sends, plus a "5/6 Shift" button next to each of the aux sends 3 and 4...plus I'm not sure about how to really get the max from the routing options I do have...and the manual is totally cryptic and lame, shit, the promotional brochure told me more than the manual did!!!
if anyone has any experience with this mixer, lemme know; i could use the help!!
(by the way, I must say I think in terms of pure FEEL, i really like the old 1604 better than the new one...the faders are so fat and wonderful...on the new one they're all skinny to allow the bus routing options to be there...just a thought...)
if anyone has any experience with this mixer, lemme know; i could use the help!!
(by the way, I must say I think in terms of pure FEEL, i really like the old 1604 better than the new one...the faders are so fat and wonderful...on the new one they're all skinny to allow the bus routing options to be there...just a thought...)
Message 2/17 13-Sep-98 @ 11:54 PM - RE: mixer confusion
buggo
Posts: 8
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Also, how do I keep levels even throughout a set..?
like if i have a synth sound that is the right volume, but then for the next song I have to run it thru distortion, or delay, or whatever, which changes the level...how do I keep it even so i don't have to do a lot of on-the spot "problem-fix" mixing???
like if i have a synth sound that is the right volume, but then for the next song I have to run it thru distortion, or delay, or whatever, which changes the level...how do I keep it even so i don't have to do a lot of on-the spot "problem-fix" mixing???
Message 3/17 14-Sep-98 @ 09:38 AM - RE: mixer confusion
iether mark your faders for the different positions, or get a dist' pedal with an output level knob... and balance it when ON to be the right level compared to switched out....
those 5/6 button simply is a dual switch.... you go t 6 aux sends, but to make room, they switch the 3/4 knobs to 5/6.... so you can have 6 aux units permenantly patched in to your aux sends... then choose to send out to 2/4... or whern switched down, the signal is routing out of 5 & 6 sends.... obvi9ously you cant send to 3/4 & 5/6 at the same time,.....
those 5/6 button simply is a dual switch.... you go t 6 aux sends, but to make room, they switch the 3/4 knobs to 5/6.... so you can have 6 aux units permenantly patched in to your aux sends... then choose to send out to 2/4... or whern switched down, the signal is routing out of 5 & 6 sends.... obvi9ously you cant send to 3/4 & 5/6 at the same time,.....
Message 4/17 14-Sep-98 @ 01:44 PM - RE: mixer confusion
bug, if you can give a description of your kit i might be able to come up with some routing suggestions. as far as level setting goes, once you get the hang of it, it's not really that much of a pain to set the input level - becomes second nature, really. be sure to gain stage everything.
Message 5/17 15-Sep-98 @ 05:03 AM - RE: mixer confusion
buggo
Posts: 8
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yeah, that's kind of what i figured for teh 5/6 switch...not as if I even have that many effects though!!
but what are the aux sends good for? i have a whole shitload of 'em and i'm only using 2...what about the other 4?
and yes, my distortion pedal DOES have an output level knob, which i've balanced with the non-distorted signal just fine...but when i switch from, say, a single-oscillator patch with portamento and poly mode to a unison-mode, square+saw fucked up heavy bas patch, how do I keep the levels consistent? one's always gonna be louder...(i'm talking about my juno.)
so i've got the juno, my computer (temporarily) and an emax...plus for my live set i'm gonna have 2 CD players and a tape deck hooked up...if you can think of any creative routing options, let me know.
(one thing that irks me is that you really can't use the same distortion pedal for more than one signal...like if I'm making a distorted lead sound on the juno, but also want to use distortion on a bass drum or hats or whatever, it never sounds right, and you can tell they're sharing a signal...sounds strange, but i'm not sure how to put it. i just need another pedal!)
also, i'm not using an aux send for the distortion...since the only thing i use it for so far is the Juno, i haven't bothered...but when i pick the emax up tomorrow i'm going to have to rewire all that shite...damn...
but what are the aux sends good for? i have a whole shitload of 'em and i'm only using 2...what about the other 4?
and yes, my distortion pedal DOES have an output level knob, which i've balanced with the non-distorted signal just fine...but when i switch from, say, a single-oscillator patch with portamento and poly mode to a unison-mode, square+saw fucked up heavy bas patch, how do I keep the levels consistent? one's always gonna be louder...(i'm talking about my juno.)
so i've got the juno, my computer (temporarily) and an emax...plus for my live set i'm gonna have 2 CD players and a tape deck hooked up...if you can think of any creative routing options, let me know.
(one thing that irks me is that you really can't use the same distortion pedal for more than one signal...like if I'm making a distorted lead sound on the juno, but also want to use distortion on a bass drum or hats or whatever, it never sounds right, and you can tell they're sharing a signal...sounds strange, but i'm not sure how to put it. i just need another pedal!)
also, i'm not using an aux send for the distortion...since the only thing i use it for so far is the Juno, i haven't bothered...but when i pick the emax up tomorrow i'm going to have to rewire all that shite...damn...
Message 6/17 15-Sep-98 @ 09:18 AM - RE: mixer confusion
for the levels - doesn't the juno allow you to save a volume-setting with each patch? ideally you want them all peaking at about the same level - if i were you i'd just go hrough all the sounds you're going to use and get them all peaking at the right level. if you're sort of working out a setlist then just practice it until you got the fader-control right. if you're winging it, then it's just a case of geeting familiar with it. but getting all the levels right in the juno-patches will help.
aux sends. fx - which you know (but i dunno about distortion - i think you'd be better off putting that effect through the insert on the channel - you don't really want a wet/dry mix of distortion. other uses - can send signals from individual channels to another sound source - either something like a pc or a sampler where you don't want to record the whole mix - or other than that to another mixer/amp for monitoring - if you're playing live you may want various members of your group to hear different mixes.
but mostly fx....
aux sends. fx - which you know (but i dunno about distortion - i think you'd be better off putting that effect through the insert on the channel - you don't really want a wet/dry mix of distortion. other uses - can send signals from individual channels to another sound source - either something like a pc or a sampler where you don't want to record the whole mix - or other than that to another mixer/amp for monitoring - if you're playing live you may want various members of your group to hear different mixes.
but mostly fx....
Message 7/17 15-Sep-98 @ 09:24 AM - RE: mixer confusion
Buggo, with that many aux's your laughing. Remember you can use the 5/6 for stuff like tape deck play or something.. This is pretty usefull if you have a cd that you like the particular sound on. you can have your cd deck going into the mixing desk (on 5 lets say) and compare the sound of your track with the cd track easily. You can learn a lot about your own /other peoples mixes this way.
Message 8/17 15-Sep-98 @ 08:32 PM - RE: mixer confusion
uh, buggo, what you got fer FX besides the distortion pedal? what's currently on Aux 1+2?
and how many outs on the Emax? regardless it sounds like you got plenty of channel space for all your gear outputs, so you don't really need to use the extra auxs(s). get more FX... ;)
but i'll tell ya this much, if you got a delay or reverb (or multieffect, whatever...) on aux1 or 2, you should be able to do something really cool. send out 1 (or 1+2) and return it on 1 (aux return 1, that is). there should be a knob next to the return 1 volume that is for sending to aux 1. using that you can create a feedback loop that will give you mad sounds. be careful, though - the feedback keeps increasing in volume unless you keep on it, bringing it back down. very cool. dump it to tape and sample it.
you don't want to use the same pedal for your juno and drums - settings will be different and using the same signal path would just clutter everything up. so go buy another - you're a big spender now, right? you could prolly find one used for 10-20 bucks anyways.
aside from that... you got one of your subs patched to the inputs on the emax, right? patch the other to your PC. that way anything going into the mixer can be sampled (thru FX if you want) to either the sampler or yer puter (or both), just hitting a couple of buttons and moving some faders (no swapping cables, etc.).
and how many outs on the Emax? regardless it sounds like you got plenty of channel space for all your gear outputs, so you don't really need to use the extra auxs(s). get more FX... ;)
but i'll tell ya this much, if you got a delay or reverb (or multieffect, whatever...) on aux1 or 2, you should be able to do something really cool. send out 1 (or 1+2) and return it on 1 (aux return 1, that is). there should be a knob next to the return 1 volume that is for sending to aux 1. using that you can create a feedback loop that will give you mad sounds. be careful, though - the feedback keeps increasing in volume unless you keep on it, bringing it back down. very cool. dump it to tape and sample it.
you don't want to use the same pedal for your juno and drums - settings will be different and using the same signal path would just clutter everything up. so go buy another - you're a big spender now, right? you could prolly find one used for 10-20 bucks anyways.
aside from that... you got one of your subs patched to the inputs on the emax, right? patch the other to your PC. that way anything going into the mixer can be sampled (thru FX if you want) to either the sampler or yer puter (or both), just hitting a couple of buttons and moving some faders (no swapping cables, etc.).
Message 9/17 15-Sep-98 @ 08:35 PM - RE: mixer confusion
oh yeah, another ting... does the original 1604 have an aux return that can be routed to the subs? that would be cool for sampling just an effect (like a reverb wash).
Message 10/17 16-Sep-98 @ 01:41 AM - RE: mixer confusion
buggo
Posts: 8
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nah, i don't think so...(about the aux return..)
and fx-wise, i have a delay pedal, chorus pedal, and reverb unit...delay is aux 1, chorus is aux 2...that's it so far..the reverb sucks so i don't use it...
altho actually, there IS a thing that lets you solo the aux returns...not a bad effect except it only gives you the wet signal...if the fx unit had 2 outputs, 1 for wet and 1 for dry, that would work great, but if all you're doing is feeding a signal in and getting an effected signal out, it doesn't do much...
and now i'm flat broke. i actually haven't used the emax yet...i got it today and i have a sneaking suspicion this guy is fucking with me...rack ears were bent, the case was bashed up, the power button was missing, there's no power cord, the HD was wiped, the system disks don't work, there's no manual...i am, needless to say, quite pissed. and to think, i still need to pay off this shite...
and fx-wise, i have a delay pedal, chorus pedal, and reverb unit...delay is aux 1, chorus is aux 2...that's it so far..the reverb sucks so i don't use it...
altho actually, there IS a thing that lets you solo the aux returns...not a bad effect except it only gives you the wet signal...if the fx unit had 2 outputs, 1 for wet and 1 for dry, that would work great, but if all you're doing is feeding a signal in and getting an effected signal out, it doesn't do much...
and now i'm flat broke. i actually haven't used the emax yet...i got it today and i have a sneaking suspicion this guy is fucking with me...rack ears were bent, the case was bashed up, the power button was missing, there's no power cord, the HD was wiped, the system disks don't work, there's no manual...i am, needless to say, quite pissed. and to think, i still need to pay off this shite...
Message 11/17 16-Sep-98 @ 02:14 AM - RE: mixer confusion
don't know about cal, but in arizona, verbal contract is legally binding mate. (i can say that. raised in uk.)(this guy told you it was good? screw the fucker. (i just like saying that.)
xoxos.
xoxos.
Message 12/17 20-Sep-98 @ 01:58 AM - RE: mixer confusion
buggo
Posts: 8
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File?: No file
another question:
I've got stereo outs on the juno, and although I've just been using one channel on my mixer for it (thereby making it mono) I really love the stereo chorus, so I finally got some cables and hooked it up to 2 channels, panned hard right and left.
good, so now i've got my juno in stereo in the mix, but...I use distortion on the juno sometimes. I have a mono distortion pedal (aren't they all?) so obviously I can't run my stereo juno thru it...So when I'm playing a song with distortion, it's gonna be mono (which is fine, because who ever uses chorus and distortion at the same time?) But how do I set it up so all I have to do is hit the pedal and my signal is distorted and mono?
right now the setup is like this: i have the left output of the juno going into a channel dry, and the right output goes into another channel, through the pedal. So what I now have to do to get distortion is mute the left channel and pan the right channel back to the center, making one mono, distorted channel. (this way works fine, i guess, but...)
there's gotta be some better way to do this! any tips? i have no fucking clue how to use channel inserts; all i know is they have TRS jacks, and there are vague instructions on inserting the jack all the way, halfway, etc...how do channel inserts work and will they help me in this case? if not, what will?
(and aux sends are out, because as skul pointed out i'm not going to want a wet/dry distortion mix!!)
I've got stereo outs on the juno, and although I've just been using one channel on my mixer for it (thereby making it mono) I really love the stereo chorus, so I finally got some cables and hooked it up to 2 channels, panned hard right and left.
good, so now i've got my juno in stereo in the mix, but...I use distortion on the juno sometimes. I have a mono distortion pedal (aren't they all?) so obviously I can't run my stereo juno thru it...So when I'm playing a song with distortion, it's gonna be mono (which is fine, because who ever uses chorus and distortion at the same time?) But how do I set it up so all I have to do is hit the pedal and my signal is distorted and mono?
right now the setup is like this: i have the left output of the juno going into a channel dry, and the right output goes into another channel, through the pedal. So what I now have to do to get distortion is mute the left channel and pan the right channel back to the center, making one mono, distorted channel. (this way works fine, i guess, but...)
there's gotta be some better way to do this! any tips? i have no fucking clue how to use channel inserts; all i know is they have TRS jacks, and there are vague instructions on inserting the jack all the way, halfway, etc...how do channel inserts work and will they help me in this case? if not, what will?
(and aux sends are out, because as skul pointed out i'm not going to want a wet/dry distortion mix!!)
Message 13/17 21-Sep-98 @ 06:10 PM - RE: mixer confusion
that's pretty much the only way to do it...the way
you described. inserts don't help with panning or
volume, they're exactly that, "inserts". it's like
plugging the output of your juno into the distortion,
and then plugging the distortion into the board,
except it's more convenient.
you could use an aux if you've got an extra, that
way you could leave your pans alone, just mute the
two juno channels and un-mute the channel with
the return from the distortion (i'd use a channel,
not a return, if you've got an extra, because of
the eq)....
i do this often with my se-70, some patches (like
reverbs) sound good wet/dry, others (like the ones
designed for guitars) only sound good fully wet.
So then, you just mute the input channels and you're
good to go.
Oh yeah, don't use the mute button, use the channel
assigns...don't assign it anywhere. i don't know about
the mackie, but most sub-out boards allow you to assign
to 1/2, 3/4, and L/R. If you don't assign anything,
the channel isn't muted (if you mute, nothing will come
out of the aux sends either) but the aux sends still
work, and it goes nowhere else....
you described. inserts don't help with panning or
volume, they're exactly that, "inserts". it's like
plugging the output of your juno into the distortion,
and then plugging the distortion into the board,
except it's more convenient.
you could use an aux if you've got an extra, that
way you could leave your pans alone, just mute the
two juno channels and un-mute the channel with
the return from the distortion (i'd use a channel,
not a return, if you've got an extra, because of
the eq)....
i do this often with my se-70, some patches (like
reverbs) sound good wet/dry, others (like the ones
designed for guitars) only sound good fully wet.
So then, you just mute the input channels and you're
good to go.
Oh yeah, don't use the mute button, use the channel
assigns...don't assign it anywhere. i don't know about
the mackie, but most sub-out boards allow you to assign
to 1/2, 3/4, and L/R. If you don't assign anything,
the channel isn't muted (if you mute, nothing will come
out of the aux sends either) but the aux sends still
work, and it goes nowhere else....
Message 14/17 21-Sep-98 @ 06:41 PM - RE: mixer confusion
hrmm... that will probably work. i tried putting a pedal on an aux before and it was noisy as fuck, though. could just be that i wasn't paying attention to what i was doing...
ok, this is gonna sound crazy, but you could probably cable it such that both channel inserts are going into the pedal. you'd need some special connector-jobbies, or to make the cables themselves. the question is whether or not you'd want to. i mean, the solution you've already come up with is exactly what i'd do (it's the easiest way to go).
the problem is that pedals weren't exactly designed with mixing desks in mind, you know?
ok, this is gonna sound crazy, but you could probably cable it such that both channel inserts are going into the pedal. you'd need some special connector-jobbies, or to make the cables themselves. the question is whether or not you'd want to. i mean, the solution you've already come up with is exactly what i'd do (it's the easiest way to go).
the problem is that pedals weren't exactly designed with mixing desks in mind, you know?
Message 15/17 21-Sep-98 @ 11:43 PM - RE: mixer confusion
buggo
Posts: 8
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yeh..but nomad...i have the old 1604, which doesn't have subgroups...bad luck...oh well, i guess either i do it this way or just put up with a juno in mono!
Message 16/17 21-Sep-98 @ 11:56 PM - RE: mixer confusion
there are a few "stereo distortion" pedals, at
least i've heard of a couple made by arion, dunno
anything about them...or you could just get two pedals
although i can't imagine anything stereo about
distortion...better would be to turn the juno's chorus
off (that's all that's stereo about it anyway),
hang the distortion off of a mono output and put
a stereo chorus after that...i think it would
sound better....there's a rack chorus, the rce10 i think,
that sounded to me pretty much like the one in the juno
(i didn't have them at the same time, so i can't
say for sure), and they usually go cheap (there's one
for sale somewhere I saw for $30...)
least i've heard of a couple made by arion, dunno
anything about them...or you could just get two pedals
although i can't imagine anything stereo aboutdistortion...better would be to turn the juno's chorus
off (that's all that's stereo about it anyway),
hang the distortion off of a mono output and put
a stereo chorus after that...i think it would
sound better....there's a rack chorus, the rce10 i think,
that sounded to me pretty much like the one in the juno
(i didn't have them at the same time, so i can't
say for sure), and they usually go cheap (there's one
for sale somewhere I saw for $30...)
Message 17/17 22-Sep-98 @ 01:15 AM - RE: mixer confusion
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
yeh, i want to go that route on effects...cheap rack jobs that are stereo and sound decent. nasty sounding is fine by me! (i have a mono chorus pedal that i got for 75 cents at the thrift store...sounds fuckin great!) and for the most part i don't really use the chorus on the Juno anyway, but on some patches, that stereo image sounds so FAT!!!! oh well i guess i can't really afford to use up 2 channels of my mixer on just 1 synth anyway during a live set, at least if it's like the one i'm going to be playing at next month...half DJing, half live playing, which means i'll use 6 inputs just for my 2 cd players and a tape deck...back to mono!! (i'm glad i have the 1604 and not the 1402 i was going to get!)
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