Give me 0 unity or give me death - Music techology forums

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Subject: Give me 0 unity or give me death

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Original Message 1/17 29-Jan-04 @ 07:33 AM - Give me 0 unity or give me death

brad

Posts: 154

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So I'm just about to record a new livePA mix. As usual, all my gear goes to my
Mackie, then out to my sparkly new m-audio ozone going into my laptop. Problem
is, I can't figure out how to adjust the recording level on the ozone!

Ideally I want to set the mackie mains to 0dB, and then adjust the ozone level
accordingly. But for now 0dB is way too hot for the Ozone and I get massive
clipping.

I have to lower the mains all the way down to -20dB to get proper levels, i.e. no
clipping, around -1 to -2dB headroom. So the question is, will this give me a bad
signal/noise ratio? is this a bad way to record?

I did a 10min test recording, burned it and played it on the monitors and it sounds
fine.

Are there any other reasons why recording at -20dB would be bad? It feels funny
to see my output meters so low...also I fell like I have less control, b/c duh, I do.

Thoughts?

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Message 2/17 29-Jan-04 @ 08:54 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

dARKSTATe

Posts: 1584

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[adopts influx "voice of god"]

M I X I N G F O R U M.....

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Message 3/17 29-Jan-04 @ 09:17 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

influx

Posts: 7627

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heh.

yeah, well. I stopped doing that shit a long time ago

(and my voice is actually kinda nasal "whitey" voice)

anyway...-20db?

the levels are all good _within_ the mackie? ie..not clipping at the channels (unless its intentional) and not clipping at the outputs?

and...youre running the inputs on the Ozone in Line mode?...not...jeez...I dont even know...

well, heres another one:

RTFM? I mean..doesnt it tell ya how to adjust the input gain on the Ozone?

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Message 4/17 29-Jan-04 @ 09:55 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

GrooveMonkey

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Is the gain on the ozone pre or post AD?

If its pre then fine, adjust it as much as you like. If its post, just leave it set at max coz otherwise you are just loosing bits.

And check the levels through the rest of your gear, especially the desk (PFL)

G

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Message 5/17 29-Jan-04 @ 03:31 PM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

mcc>

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if it sounds fine...go with it until you figure out how to control that ozone's gain.
no sense having the fader at some number because you've always been told it sounds best that way and have it go extreme-red and distort like mad and end up with nothing.

play a test recording back and if it works....do that.
if it's digital....stay on the lower side of the red.

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Message 6/17 29-Jan-04 @ 03:37 PM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

queasy00

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i dunno.. i have a behringer and the manual says that the tape-outs are good for recording. also there might be a switch at the back that switches the oiutput level (perhaps from consumer to -10v).

-j

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Message 7/17 29-Jan-04 @ 07:45 PM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

brad

Posts: 154

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yeah I RTFM and yes it clearly states what to do but my unit's not doing it. there
are a few other suspicious things going on w/ my ozone and I'm hoping it's not a
faulty piece...

Anyway, it sounds fine, so I'm gonna go for it, despite unusual settings.

thanks,
B

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Message 8/17 30-Jan-04 @ 01:14 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

brad

Posts: 154

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oooooh breaking news from m-audio tech support:

Hi Brad,

If your device is in need of repair and you have had it longer than 30 days please
contact our RA Department by phone (626) 633-9050 9:00 AM to 5:00 PM to
receive your Return Authorization number. We will test, repair and/or replace the
device and ship it back to you. The RA Department will give you all the details
concerning shipping. If you have had the unit for less than 30 days then you are
within your right to return the device to the original vendor for an exchange or
refund. However this may depend on individual store policies.

Please do not delete prior email

SS

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Message 9/17 30-Jan-04 @ 03:39 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

mcc>

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i'm not surprised.

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Message 10/17 30-Jan-04 @ 04:39 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

queasy00

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man... now i wonder if i have the same problem! but tommy has to drop it too -15 too.. hmm...

-j

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Message 11/17 30-Jan-04 @ 04:40 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

queasy00

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oops... i meant to add:

when you get the new one back, please tell if that solved your problems.

-j

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Message 12/17 30-Jan-04 @ 05:51 AM Edit: 30-Jan-04 | 05:54 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

psylichon

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Are you sure you're not sending a balanced output to an unbalanced input? This would account for at least 14 dB of that overshoot. What trusty mackie do you own? Most have tape outs... have you tried those? Cause those are likely unbalanced, definitely so if they're RCA's.

And yeah, bottom line is, burn a CD, put it in yer discman, put on the eargoggles, close your eyes, and evaluate. You know how it should sound.

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Message 13/17 30-Jan-04 @ 11:33 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

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hold up Brad - when you 'record' off the mackie, where are you taking the line OUt from (assuming the master l/r is going to Front-of-house

?

this sounds like you simply are taking a +20 output

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 14/17 30-Jan-04 @ 11:42 AM Edit: 30-Jan-04 | 11:54 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

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if you look at a VLZ spec the outs are set to +20dbu (0dBfs = +20dBu)

___________________________________

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Message 15/17 30-Jan-04 @ 11:54 AM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

milan

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"Problem is, I can't figure out how to adjust the recording level on the ozone!"

input gain controls dont work or does it still clip when you turn them all the way down? did you connect the mackie to the aux inputs?

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Message 16/17 30-Jan-04 @ 11:21 PM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

brad

Posts: 154

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wow- thanks for all the replies. FYI, I'm using the tape outs from a mackie 1404.
The input gain control doesn't work at all so to compensate, I bring the mackie
down to -20dB. I know my mackie levels are "normal" b/c I've recorded via tape-
output (rca) to a stand-alone CD-R deck several times before, with excellent
results.

So, short answer= I'm sending my ozone back to m-audio. After m-audio emailed
that first response above, I got a second one saying;
"Normally you will want to adjust this at the Source (in this case your Mackie) so
you may just be sending too hot of a signal through. If the input gain on the Ozone
is not working, lets verify a clean install of the Ozone driver:" [long detailed ozone
driver installation instructions that I know by heart anyway]

But then I talked w/ a cool guy from the RA Department and we both agreed this is
a h/w problem, not s/w. B/c if you think about it, wtf does a s/w driver have to do
with a hardware knob?!? Nothing. I'd go so far to guess that the gain input knob
would work even if it wasn't connected to the lappy.

Sooo...luckily they are here in califonia, and my man said turn-around time would
be a week. s'cool, I'll just dust off the old stand-alone CDR and get busy ;-)

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Message 17/17 31-Jan-04 @ 01:41 PM - RE: Give me 0 unity or give me death

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have you tried lloking for the input level in your windows mixer? (start/accessories/multimedia I think it's in) - it might be linked as it often is and ....

___________________________________

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