 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Music techology
Subject: Old Gear, New Gear.....
Viewing all 18 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
Original Message 1/18 19-Aug-98 @ 02:23 PM - Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
I'm looking for another synth. I hate to ask the ubiquitous "what should I buy" question, but I do sort of have some fundamental concerns about what the fuck to do......
I have a juno106 and will probably get an s20 for drums. I want another synth to get more variety. I'm totally unsure which way to go; oldish and cheapish or newish and NOT cheapish....The an1x seems to have come down in price quite a ways....but some cheaper/older synths like the basstation are very appealing too. Aside from POLYPHONY, what can you get out of newer gear like the AN1X (or others in the price range...not expensive jp8k's and whatnot) that you can't get out of cheaper things like the basstation, in terms of practical usage...I know the Juno was totally slammed by people because the presets were lame, the chorus was noisy, there weren't enough editing parameters, the MIDI interface blew, etc. But now I have one and although it has its limitations, they are what make it unique and provide the inspiration for making new sounds and tracks.
So bottom line: There is always a lot of negative shit that gets said about all kinds of gear. In the case of the Juno, uppity whiners with huge studios full of gear complained about nitpicky little items....is all the shit i hear about most of the gear that exists (and yeh, there is a lot of it; someone always has to slag on whatever synth is at hand for some little flaw) actually true, or is it just more whining by the priveleged minority of rich studio guys?
More importantly, WHAT FUCKING SYNTH SHOULD I BUY?????
hehehe..
I have a juno106 and will probably get an s20 for drums. I want another synth to get more variety. I'm totally unsure which way to go; oldish and cheapish or newish and NOT cheapish....The an1x seems to have come down in price quite a ways....but some cheaper/older synths like the basstation are very appealing too. Aside from POLYPHONY, what can you get out of newer gear like the AN1X (or others in the price range...not expensive jp8k's and whatnot) that you can't get out of cheaper things like the basstation, in terms of practical usage...I know the Juno was totally slammed by people because the presets were lame, the chorus was noisy, there weren't enough editing parameters, the MIDI interface blew, etc. But now I have one and although it has its limitations, they are what make it unique and provide the inspiration for making new sounds and tracks.
So bottom line: There is always a lot of negative shit that gets said about all kinds of gear. In the case of the Juno, uppity whiners with huge studios full of gear complained about nitpicky little items....is all the shit i hear about most of the gear that exists (and yeh, there is a lot of it; someone always has to slag on whatever synth is at hand for some little flaw) actually true, or is it just more whining by the priveleged minority of rich studio guys?
More importantly, WHAT FUCKING SYNTH SHOULD I BUY?????
hehehe..
Message 2/18 19-Aug-98 @ 02:39 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buying an an1x for polyphony's a bit of a joke anyway - i think it's 10voice max but that's more like 5 if you put it in dual mode - but then seeing as it was you that was slagging polyphony and multitimbrality anyway, i guess that doesn't matter....
...what it does offer is just a great variety of sounds - i mean a huge huge variety - from pure analog-y bubbly synths to some limited fm-style stuff to weird atmospheric stuff - and loads of fx - three blocks VARI/delay/reverb (vari has compressor/flange/chorus/phaser/overdrive/enhancer/distortion/leslie sim/wah and others). what this means is that even just using the fx you can make lots of variations on one sound....
but i reckon the real advantage of the an1x is how easy it is to program and control. using just the synth is fine but there's also a wicked editor for it on the pc/mac - so even if you don't have a clue what the functions do you can work it all out really quick. and because the editor has its own bank format .an1 or something, there's alredy loads of banks on the web - lots of them are quite good too.
and control - not only can you control the internal stuff realtime easily from the knobs, but you can do external stuff like rebirth (wasn't it you that was trying to do that??).
but still, it's fairly expensive. you could get 3 or 4 other budget synths for that - say an fb01 for fm stuff, the basstation for, well, bass stuff, and something like a d110 or u110 from roland for those other sounds to fill out your mix. having said that, i've never used any of them for very long - and i get by with just the an1x, an sr16 and an emax - connected to cake. if your pc can handle a reasonable amount of audio you can just midi-up a line in the an1x and record it into the pc or sampler as a loop and do another line - and so on and so on....
...what it does offer is just a great variety of sounds - i mean a huge huge variety - from pure analog-y bubbly synths to some limited fm-style stuff to weird atmospheric stuff - and loads of fx - three blocks VARI/delay/reverb (vari has compressor/flange/chorus/phaser/overdrive/enhancer/distortion/leslie sim/wah and others). what this means is that even just using the fx you can make lots of variations on one sound....
but i reckon the real advantage of the an1x is how easy it is to program and control. using just the synth is fine but there's also a wicked editor for it on the pc/mac - so even if you don't have a clue what the functions do you can work it all out really quick. and because the editor has its own bank format .an1 or something, there's alredy loads of banks on the web - lots of them are quite good too.
and control - not only can you control the internal stuff realtime easily from the knobs, but you can do external stuff like rebirth (wasn't it you that was trying to do that??).
but still, it's fairly expensive. you could get 3 or 4 other budget synths for that - say an fb01 for fm stuff, the basstation for, well, bass stuff, and something like a d110 or u110 from roland for those other sounds to fill out your mix. having said that, i've never used any of them for very long - and i get by with just the an1x, an sr16 and an emax - connected to cake. if your pc can handle a reasonable amount of audio you can just midi-up a line in the an1x and record it into the pc or sampler as a loop and do another line - and so on and so on....
Message 3/18 19-Aug-98 @ 04:31 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
yeah, I was slagging off excessive multitimbrality/polyphony to the point of ridiculousness...but 8 voice ain't bad....(thats what the an1x is i think??)
that said, however, I want to get the most flexibility and live playability for my buck. For the most part, huge multitimbral workstations give you less actual value than separate units, in terms of variety and musical "flavor."
I think in fact I will go with separate units....one thing that bugs me about the basstation is that I really want the features on the rack version but then I'd have to buy a controller...I HATE MODULES! I HATE MODULES! I DO NOT LIKE THEM SAM I AM. I WILL NOT USE THEM ON A TRAIN. I WILL NOT....err....you get it. Anyway I suppose just getting a bunch of cheap old modules and a pc1600 (or whatever it's called) for cheap cheap, but...
And I object to hard disk audio by tracks/overdubbing parts from the same synth etc on principle....although I use a lot of it now, I find it kind of limiting in terms of creating a really cohesive mix.
thanks for the tips; I think tho I'm gonna go for the basstation, s20, maybe a few FM modules, maybe a banjo or sitar, maybe a grand piano, maybe a new saxophone (tenor this time), maybe a celtic harp, maybe a zither, maybe an african goat-skin drum, maybe a goat to make my own drum out of......the possibilities are endless. (the finances, in stark contrast, are not. damn.)
that said, however, I want to get the most flexibility and live playability for my buck. For the most part, huge multitimbral workstations give you less actual value than separate units, in terms of variety and musical "flavor."
I think in fact I will go with separate units....one thing that bugs me about the basstation is that I really want the features on the rack version but then I'd have to buy a controller...I HATE MODULES! I HATE MODULES! I DO NOT LIKE THEM SAM I AM. I WILL NOT USE THEM ON A TRAIN. I WILL NOT....err....you get it. Anyway I suppose just getting a bunch of cheap old modules and a pc1600 (or whatever it's called) for cheap cheap, but...
And I object to hard disk audio by tracks/overdubbing parts from the same synth etc on principle....although I use a lot of it now, I find it kind of limiting in terms of creating a really cohesive mix.
thanks for the tips; I think tho I'm gonna go for the basstation, s20, maybe a few FM modules, maybe a banjo or sitar, maybe a grand piano, maybe a new saxophone (tenor this time), maybe a celtic harp, maybe a zither, maybe an african goat-skin drum, maybe a goat to make my own drum out of......the possibilities are endless. (the finances, in stark contrast, are not. damn.)
Message 4/18 19-Aug-98 @ 04:45 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
I'd agree with Bill about all the things he's said about the AN1x but to add my own comment, I've had mine for nearly two weeks now and it's going to be a very long time before I'm ready to buy another synth. Ok it's only got a polyphony of 10 but that just forces you to get the biggest sound you can because you'll probably only be using it for one sound at a time anyway. I'm suprised by the amount of variation in sounds you can get, from cheesy bells to full blown acid belches. As for the bass station, whats wrong with it not having a keyboard? The main thing is it's got plenty of control knobs that all send control messages.
PS The Super Bass Station rocks compared to the standard rack version. I have the keyboard and it's not even in the picture compare to the rack version, (tho it's still good).
PS The Super Bass Station rocks compared to the standard rack version. I have the keyboard and it's not even in the picture compare to the rack version, (tho it's still good).
Message 5/18 19-Aug-98 @ 05:42 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
I've had the AN1X for just about a year. I've only got to grips with exploiting it properly and for the money it is now you cant really go wrong.
The only pisser as far as I can see is the lack of presets and user slots to store your sounds. (not everyone has a nice PC to save shit off on to).
The only pisser as far as I can see is the lack of presets and user slots to store your sounds. (not everyone has a nice PC to save shit off on to).
Message 6/18 19-Aug-98 @ 10:45 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
how many user slots does it have?
i know on my juno what I did (with the whopping 128 save positions) is just make some template sounds; like #14 is a standard organ, and from there I can fuck with it to tailor it to the specific track...works well....
i know on my juno what I did (with the whopping 128 save positions) is just make some template sounds; like #14 is a standard organ, and from there I can fuck with it to tailor it to the specific track...works well....
Message 7/18 19-Aug-98 @ 10:46 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
how many user slots does it have?
i know on my juno what I did (with the whopping 128 save positions) is just make some template sounds; like #14 is a standard organ, and from there I can fuck with it to tailor it to the specific track...works well....
oh.....sorry this will post twice....what exactly IS the an1x going for these days?
i know on my juno what I did (with the whopping 128 save positions) is just make some template sounds; like #14 is a standard organ, and from there I can fuck with it to tailor it to the specific track...works well....
oh.....sorry this will post twice....what exactly IS the an1x going for these days?
Message 8/18 19-Aug-98 @ 11:00 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
I say go for something sterile and digital.. Now yall know I like FM... But, whatevr, get something that will complement your already analoguey shit.. There is such a thing as too much analog.. SO get something that contrasts it in a pleasing way..
Message 9/18 20-Aug-98 @ 05:40 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
Buggo-theres a tx81 at auction soup right now for, I think, $70, and it closes tomorrow. Maybe youre interested? check it out.
Message 10/18 20-Aug-98 @ 05:42 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
holy shit!
well that would be cool, but i'm goin for a mixer now...and if I have to get it by tomorrow then i can't; no money...GGRRRRR!!
well that would be cool, but i'm goin for a mixer now...and if I have to get it by tomorrow then i can't; no money...GGRRRRR!!
Message 11/18 20-Aug-98 @ 06:26 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
It's up to $90.. If I didn't already have a 6 op FM synth, I'd be all over that like Jock on a pint.
Message 12/18 20-Aug-98 @ 08:58 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
90 still aint bad-hey bug-maybe you could bid on it and work somthin out with the guy, like wait a week or some shit---and a thought-by any chance do you have a DJ mixer lyin around? cuz you can use that for now-thats what I use until I get a good amp to run the 1622 through. All you need are 1/4 to RCAs, and itll work fine--I run my shit through (numark1260) into my cheesy little AIwa--not the most ideal setup, but its all about the makeshift right? Hil pointed out that I can use the Line/Mic switch for cool gating effects, too...
Sedusa-Im gonna call you some day, I fuckin swear! Im still a pitiful fool, and I still need friends!
Sedusa-Im gonna call you some day, I fuckin swear! Im still a pitiful fool, and I still need friends!
Message 13/18 20-Aug-98 @ 09:37 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
maybe i'll try, i dont think the guy would be too receptive to poor hs studens looking for cheap gear and wanting a loan or hiatus or wait period or something....
oh well i;m all pissed up and tonight i can be bothered but i'll see about teh tx81....'twould be a nice module to have around and no i do not have a dj mixer lyinn around, if i did i would use it...donations gladly accepted tho.....oh fuck, off to bed with me....thanks for the tip i'll look into it
oh well i;m all pissed up and tonight i can be bothered but i'll see about teh tx81....'twould be a nice module to have around and no i do not have a dj mixer lyinn around, if i did i would use it...donations gladly accepted tho.....oh fuck, off to bed with me....thanks for the tip i'll look into it
Message 14/18 20-Aug-98 @ 10:04 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo, get loads of little bits rather than one big piece then. because i only discovered this recently, but you can have the best/most expressive synth in the world but unless you can run several lines off it and each through their own mixer channel you might as well be cooking - i reckon at least half the fun of doing stuff is in the mixer stage - sending it to reverb and delay or compression things, fading delays up and down, pitchshifting - whatever.
and you're right about the pc overdubbing. i reckon its only really good if you have a multi-out card so you can treat your pc through several channels as well.
so get the bass station, an fm unit and some more fx. i cannot recommend an early pitch-shifter enough - if you run the return to another mixer channel (rather than the aux return) and feed it back into itself it doesn the craziest stuff - i might have to make an mp3 of me just messing on it - all i had was one really simple progammed break and it was sounding like a track on its own....
mind you, sounds like you were doing some of this style anyway with your delay pedal...
and you're right about the pc overdubbing. i reckon its only really good if you have a multi-out card so you can treat your pc through several channels as well.
so get the bass station, an fm unit and some more fx. i cannot recommend an early pitch-shifter enough - if you run the return to another mixer channel (rather than the aux return) and feed it back into itself it doesn the craziest stuff - i might have to make an mp3 of me just messing on it - all i had was one really simple progammed break and it was sounding like a track on its own....
mind you, sounds like you were doing some of this style anyway with your delay pedal...
Message 15/18 20-Aug-98 @ 09:35 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
I totally agree...that's why I'm getting lots of cheap kit and going totally upmarket on the mixer; you're totally right about mixing and FX being the best part, bringing the groove together....
like someone pointed out in the 1202/1402 thread, people really don't think enough about the mixer; it is after all the thing that ALL of your kit runs through and your mix can only be as good as your mixer (which isn't the case with lots of old kit!)
like someone pointed out in the 1202/1402 thread, people really don't think enough about the mixer; it is after all the thing that ALL of your kit runs through and your mix can only be as good as your mixer (which isn't the case with lots of old kit!)
Message 16/18 21-Aug-98 @ 09:51 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
and i never thought like that at all until i saw kilo's studio in action for all of an hour or two - i can quite happily spend hours on a simple loop playing with mixer controls....
also
i've been noticing this - though stuff like the an1x and jp8000 all have great fx built in, they're pretty useless unless you can control them from your mixing desk or thereabouts. so maybe it's almost better to have old stuff that has no "fx" section and be forced to do all the fx through the mixing desk....
do the mackies have sub-groups? the 1404 and the 1604? or are they just 14/16 in and 4 out?
also
i've been noticing this - though stuff like the an1x and jp8000 all have great fx built in, they're pretty useless unless you can control them from your mixing desk or thereabouts. so maybe it's almost better to have old stuff that has no "fx" section and be forced to do all the fx through the mixing desk....
do the mackies have sub-groups? the 1404 and the 1604? or are they just 14/16 in and 4 out?
Message 17/18 21-Aug-98 @ 10:09 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
the 1604 has subgroups....but i'm going for the 1404....i'm not entirely convinced that subgroups are such a big deal...YES, i've read the mixers section....
Message 18/18 21-Aug-98 @ 11:35 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
no you haven't. you lie. i can read it on your face.
i want subgroups because i only have one compressor and i want to apply it to most of my drum sounds, but i want kick and snare and high-hat on seperate channels so i can drop them in and out with fader/mutes and have different fx on each - but then assign all the drums to a subgroup and patch the insert across that. probably not possible but hey.....
also because i can't stand sending the signal from the desk to the pc to record via an aux send - just hate changing it all around and stuff - and if you do that often the signal's drier than it was when you were demoing the recording because the aux send on a channel comes before the other aux returns have rejoined it...
and because when i set up for recording i need two mixes - one for monitoring while people are playing and one for mixing, each with independent levels and different amounts of instruemnts in the mix
and finally, because when i have a singer recording a line i want his voice recorded but not the backing track that he's performing to because it's going through the same output.
i can do all these things without subgroups with much reptaching of cables and much loss of time between processes. and enough subgroups will allow me to work faster and not get pissed off with it all and go and play jedi knight. not that jedi knight isn't a valuable occupation of my time you understand, just that it doens't help complete the latest dub masterpiece.
i want a seck 18:8:2. 400quid. hello student loan.....
i want subgroups because i only have one compressor and i want to apply it to most of my drum sounds, but i want kick and snare and high-hat on seperate channels so i can drop them in and out with fader/mutes and have different fx on each - but then assign all the drums to a subgroup and patch the insert across that. probably not possible but hey.....
also because i can't stand sending the signal from the desk to the pc to record via an aux send - just hate changing it all around and stuff - and if you do that often the signal's drier than it was when you were demoing the recording because the aux send on a channel comes before the other aux returns have rejoined it...
and because when i set up for recording i need two mixes - one for monitoring while people are playing and one for mixing, each with independent levels and different amounts of instruemnts in the mix
and finally, because when i have a singer recording a line i want his voice recorded but not the backing track that he's performing to because it's going through the same output.
i can do all these things without subgroups with much reptaching of cables and much loss of time between processes. and enough subgroups will allow me to work faster and not get pissed off with it all and go and play jedi knight. not that jedi knight isn't a valuable occupation of my time you understand, just that it doens't help complete the latest dub masterpiece.
i want a seck 18:8:2. 400quid. hello student loan.....
Viewing all 18 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2
There are 18 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
