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Forums - Music techology
Subject: Old Gear, New Gear.....
Original Message Date: 19-Aug-98 @ 02:23 PM - Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
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I'm looking for another synth. I hate to ask the ubiquitous "what should I buy" question, but I do sort of have some fundamental concerns about what the fuck to do......
I have a juno106 and will probably get an s20 for drums. I want another synth to get more variety. I'm totally unsure which way to go; oldish and cheapish or newish and NOT cheapish....The an1x seems to have come down in price quite a ways....but some cheaper/older synths like the basstation are very appealing too. Aside from POLYPHONY, what can you get out of newer gear like the AN1X (or others in the price range...not expensive jp8k's and whatnot) that you can't get out of cheaper things like the basstation, in terms of practical usage...I know the Juno was totally slammed by people because the presets were lame, the chorus was noisy, there weren't enough editing parameters, the MIDI interface blew, etc. But now I have one and although it has its limitations, they are what make it unique and provide the inspiration for making new sounds and tracks.
So bottom line: There is always a lot of negative shit that gets said about all kinds of gear. In the case of the Juno, uppity whiners with huge studios full of gear complained about nitpicky little items....is all the shit i hear about most of the gear that exists (and yeh, there is a lot of it; someone always has to slag on whatever synth is at hand for some little flaw) actually true, or is it just more whining by the priveleged minority of rich studio guys?
More importantly, WHAT FUCKING SYNTH SHOULD I BUY?????
hehehe..
I have a juno106 and will probably get an s20 for drums. I want another synth to get more variety. I'm totally unsure which way to go; oldish and cheapish or newish and NOT cheapish....The an1x seems to have come down in price quite a ways....but some cheaper/older synths like the basstation are very appealing too. Aside from POLYPHONY, what can you get out of newer gear like the AN1X (or others in the price range...not expensive jp8k's and whatnot) that you can't get out of cheaper things like the basstation, in terms of practical usage...I know the Juno was totally slammed by people because the presets were lame, the chorus was noisy, there weren't enough editing parameters, the MIDI interface blew, etc. But now I have one and although it has its limitations, they are what make it unique and provide the inspiration for making new sounds and tracks.
So bottom line: There is always a lot of negative shit that gets said about all kinds of gear. In the case of the Juno, uppity whiners with huge studios full of gear complained about nitpicky little items....is all the shit i hear about most of the gear that exists (and yeh, there is a lot of it; someone always has to slag on whatever synth is at hand for some little flaw) actually true, or is it just more whining by the priveleged minority of rich studio guys?
More importantly, WHAT FUCKING SYNTH SHOULD I BUY?????
hehehe..
Message 11/18 20-Aug-98 @ 06:26 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
It's up to $90.. If I didn't already have a 6 op FM synth, I'd be all over that like Jock on a pint.
Message 12/18 20-Aug-98 @ 08:58 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
90 still aint bad-hey bug-maybe you could bid on it and work somthin out with the guy, like wait a week or some shit---and a thought-by any chance do you have a DJ mixer lyin around? cuz you can use that for now-thats what I use until I get a good amp to run the 1622 through. All you need are 1/4 to RCAs, and itll work fine--I run my shit through (numark1260) into my cheesy little AIwa--not the most ideal setup, but its all about the makeshift right? Hil pointed out that I can use the Line/Mic switch for cool gating effects, too...
Sedusa-Im gonna call you some day, I fuckin swear! Im still a pitiful fool, and I still need friends!
Sedusa-Im gonna call you some day, I fuckin swear! Im still a pitiful fool, and I still need friends!
Message 13/18 20-Aug-98 @ 09:37 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
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maybe i'll try, i dont think the guy would be too receptive to poor hs studens looking for cheap gear and wanting a loan or hiatus or wait period or something....
oh well i;m all pissed up and tonight i can be bothered but i'll see about teh tx81....'twould be a nice module to have around and no i do not have a dj mixer lyinn around, if i did i would use it...donations gladly accepted tho.....oh fuck, off to bed with me....thanks for the tip i'll look into it
oh well i;m all pissed up and tonight i can be bothered but i'll see about teh tx81....'twould be a nice module to have around and no i do not have a dj mixer lyinn around, if i did i would use it...donations gladly accepted tho.....oh fuck, off to bed with me....thanks for the tip i'll look into it
Message 14/18 20-Aug-98 @ 10:04 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo, get loads of little bits rather than one big piece then. because i only discovered this recently, but you can have the best/most expressive synth in the world but unless you can run several lines off it and each through their own mixer channel you might as well be cooking - i reckon at least half the fun of doing stuff is in the mixer stage - sending it to reverb and delay or compression things, fading delays up and down, pitchshifting - whatever.
and you're right about the pc overdubbing. i reckon its only really good if you have a multi-out card so you can treat your pc through several channels as well.
so get the bass station, an fm unit and some more fx. i cannot recommend an early pitch-shifter enough - if you run the return to another mixer channel (rather than the aux return) and feed it back into itself it doesn the craziest stuff - i might have to make an mp3 of me just messing on it - all i had was one really simple progammed break and it was sounding like a track on its own....
mind you, sounds like you were doing some of this style anyway with your delay pedal...
and you're right about the pc overdubbing. i reckon its only really good if you have a multi-out card so you can treat your pc through several channels as well.
so get the bass station, an fm unit and some more fx. i cannot recommend an early pitch-shifter enough - if you run the return to another mixer channel (rather than the aux return) and feed it back into itself it doesn the craziest stuff - i might have to make an mp3 of me just messing on it - all i had was one really simple progammed break and it was sounding like a track on its own....
mind you, sounds like you were doing some of this style anyway with your delay pedal...
Message 15/18 20-Aug-98 @ 09:35 PM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
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I totally agree...that's why I'm getting lots of cheap kit and going totally upmarket on the mixer; you're totally right about mixing and FX being the best part, bringing the groove together....
like someone pointed out in the 1202/1402 thread, people really don't think enough about the mixer; it is after all the thing that ALL of your kit runs through and your mix can only be as good as your mixer (which isn't the case with lots of old kit!)
like someone pointed out in the 1202/1402 thread, people really don't think enough about the mixer; it is after all the thing that ALL of your kit runs through and your mix can only be as good as your mixer (which isn't the case with lots of old kit!)
Message 16/18 21-Aug-98 @ 09:51 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
and i never thought like that at all until i saw kilo's studio in action for all of an hour or two - i can quite happily spend hours on a simple loop playing with mixer controls....
also
i've been noticing this - though stuff like the an1x and jp8000 all have great fx built in, they're pretty useless unless you can control them from your mixing desk or thereabouts. so maybe it's almost better to have old stuff that has no "fx" section and be forced to do all the fx through the mixing desk....
do the mackies have sub-groups? the 1404 and the 1604? or are they just 14/16 in and 4 out?
also
i've been noticing this - though stuff like the an1x and jp8000 all have great fx built in, they're pretty useless unless you can control them from your mixing desk or thereabouts. so maybe it's almost better to have old stuff that has no "fx" section and be forced to do all the fx through the mixing desk....
do the mackies have sub-groups? the 1404 and the 1604? or are they just 14/16 in and 4 out?
Message 17/18 21-Aug-98 @ 10:09 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
the 1604 has subgroups....but i'm going for the 1404....i'm not entirely convinced that subgroups are such a big deal...YES, i've read the mixers section....
Message 18/18 21-Aug-98 @ 11:35 AM - RE: Old Gear, New Gear.....
no you haven't. you lie. i can read it on your face.
i want subgroups because i only have one compressor and i want to apply it to most of my drum sounds, but i want kick and snare and high-hat on seperate channels so i can drop them in and out with fader/mutes and have different fx on each - but then assign all the drums to a subgroup and patch the insert across that. probably not possible but hey.....
also because i can't stand sending the signal from the desk to the pc to record via an aux send - just hate changing it all around and stuff - and if you do that often the signal's drier than it was when you were demoing the recording because the aux send on a channel comes before the other aux returns have rejoined it...
and because when i set up for recording i need two mixes - one for monitoring while people are playing and one for mixing, each with independent levels and different amounts of instruemnts in the mix
and finally, because when i have a singer recording a line i want his voice recorded but not the backing track that he's performing to because it's going through the same output.
i can do all these things without subgroups with much reptaching of cables and much loss of time between processes. and enough subgroups will allow me to work faster and not get pissed off with it all and go and play jedi knight. not that jedi knight isn't a valuable occupation of my time you understand, just that it doens't help complete the latest dub masterpiece.
i want a seck 18:8:2. 400quid. hello student loan.....
i want subgroups because i only have one compressor and i want to apply it to most of my drum sounds, but i want kick and snare and high-hat on seperate channels so i can drop them in and out with fader/mutes and have different fx on each - but then assign all the drums to a subgroup and patch the insert across that. probably not possible but hey.....
also because i can't stand sending the signal from the desk to the pc to record via an aux send - just hate changing it all around and stuff - and if you do that often the signal's drier than it was when you were demoing the recording because the aux send on a channel comes before the other aux returns have rejoined it...
and because when i set up for recording i need two mixes - one for monitoring while people are playing and one for mixing, each with independent levels and different amounts of instruemnts in the mix
and finally, because when i have a singer recording a line i want his voice recorded but not the backing track that he's performing to because it's going through the same output.
i can do all these things without subgroups with much reptaching of cables and much loss of time between processes. and enough subgroups will allow me to work faster and not get pissed off with it all and go and play jedi knight. not that jedi knight isn't a valuable occupation of my time you understand, just that it doens't help complete the latest dub masterpiece.
i want a seck 18:8:2. 400quid. hello student loan.....
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