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Forums - Music techology
Subject: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Original Message Date: 12-Aug-98 @ 05:07 PM - 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ Mackie Mixer
I want a Mackie Mixer. Don't know which model to buy though. I'm on a budget so I can't afford the 1604VLZ. Is 12 channels sufficient now and later down the road on the 1202 or should I opt for the 1402. Why? I new to this s@#!$. Making dance music with PC and outboard gear. Thank you.
Message 11/23 15-Aug-98 @ 04:28 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
buggo...check out the PATCHBAYS ARE US section...it's all there
Message 12/23 15-Aug-98 @ 06:09 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
ok, I see that a channel insert just runs yer channel to and FX unit and back.....why? Why not just run the output of the given synth/drum machine or whatever to the FX unit, then to the channel in? seems kind of pointless....or are they only useful if you have a patchbay? and if the channel inserts do what I think they do, what's the point of an AUX SEND/RETURN? Does it apply the effect (say, compression) to the whole mix?
and on the patchbay front, how come you use 'em? Seems like if you have a mixer with the inputs on top (Mackies from the 1202 to 1604) it should be unnecessary really, because all yer inputs are right there on top where you can plug and unplug 'em at your leisure...what gives?
(I'm still confused about channel inserts...only good with a patchbay?)
and on the patchbay front, how come you use 'em? Seems like if you have a mixer with the inputs on top (Mackies from the 1202 to 1604) it should be unnecessary really, because all yer inputs are right there on top where you can plug and unplug 'em at your leisure...what gives?
(I'm still confused about channel inserts...only good with a patchbay?)
Message 13/23 15-Aug-98 @ 03:03 PM - inserts, sends/returns, etc.
a channel insert will take the entire signal coming into a given channel and send it out somewhere (e.g. to an effect) and then return it to the mixer at that channel (given the right cable of course). one advantage to this is to keep cable swapping down. if in one mix i got a snare that needs compressing, but in another a vocal, all i need to do is change which channel i've placed the insert on that goes to the compressor. typically stuff that you want to affect the entire signal (like EQ or Compressors) go on an insert. and no, they're not only useful with a patchbay - i have yet to own one, but use inserts all the time. there's other things you can do with inserts, but primarily it's for "in-line" processing. and one other thing, insert processing is PRE-fader.
AUX sends route a portion of the signal elsewhere (i.e. they don't interrupt the signal path, just steal some of it, or make a copy of it - with a level control to determine how much). usually this is out to an effects processor, though you could also send to say a headphone distributor amp, or another mixer. returns are typically used to receive the processed signal. you then have a level control to determine how much of that effected signal you want in the main mix.
notice the difference: an insert effects the signal before it gets to the main mix, so you have nothing of the original signal at this point. aux send/return effects a copy of the signal, so you have both the original signal and the effected signal to work with in the mix.
there's lots of flexibility in what you can do with a good mixer. e.g. when i ran out of inputs, but wanted to listen to output from a soundcard or tape i just hooked it up to a stereo return. on my 1604, i even have the ability to send one of those returns to a sub-mix, so if i have samples on a cassette tape i can route to a pair of sub outs that are connected to the inputs on my sampler (without getting back there and swapping a bunch of cables).
it's funny how usually people are screaming about this synth or that when talking kit, but the core of any studio is the mixer. most people take it for granted, but it's the best tool you own.
AUX sends route a portion of the signal elsewhere (i.e. they don't interrupt the signal path, just steal some of it, or make a copy of it - with a level control to determine how much). usually this is out to an effects processor, though you could also send to say a headphone distributor amp, or another mixer. returns are typically used to receive the processed signal. you then have a level control to determine how much of that effected signal you want in the main mix.
notice the difference: an insert effects the signal before it gets to the main mix, so you have nothing of the original signal at this point. aux send/return effects a copy of the signal, so you have both the original signal and the effected signal to work with in the mix.
there's lots of flexibility in what you can do with a good mixer. e.g. when i ran out of inputs, but wanted to listen to output from a soundcard or tape i just hooked it up to a stereo return. on my 1604, i even have the ability to send one of those returns to a sub-mix, so if i have samples on a cassette tape i can route to a pair of sub outs that are connected to the inputs on my sampler (without getting back there and swapping a bunch of cables).
it's funny how usually people are screaming about this synth or that when talking kit, but the core of any studio is the mixer. most people take it for granted, but it's the best tool you own.
Message 14/23 16-Aug-98 @ 09:48 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Whats it worth paying for a 2nd hand Mackie 1604 (non-VLZ but with rotopod)in UK?????
Message 15/23 17-Aug-98 @ 02:35 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Mackies are made in Oregon, USA. Behringers are manufactured in some SouthEast Asian country by workers putting in 12 hours a day for $2. Thus, the price difference
Message 16/23 17-Aug-98 @ 07:02 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Plus the mackie's just feel so SOLID! know what I mean?
the faders are nice and solid esp. No comparision to the
others...
the faders are nice and solid esp. No comparision to the
others...
Message 17/23 17-Aug-98 @ 09:52 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
like skul says..... compression, eq and gating etc is needing to effect the whole programme sound on the channnel... compression is no use if 'added' to an original sound, cos the original uncompressed version still is...er... uncompressed... so doesnt get effected... again with gates... the whole signal has to pass thru the processor to keep it shut out when the gate is closed.... other fx like delay, chorus, reverb etc are called 'Additive' FX processing by some people, cos you 'add' some reverb or whatever to the original signal... to get a depth.... patchbays give you great speed and versatility.... but as he says are not 100% neccessary to do these fx... you can do 'em just as well with some made up leads...
Message 18/23 17-Aug-98 @ 07:34 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
i dunno. the behringer has an aux routings that can be routed to when a channel is set to mute. i played with both the 1404vlz and the behringer, and personally i still can't justify the price difference. the features are very similar, and the behringer is like $100 less at least. i mean, for the price of the 1202vlz, you get a mixer with far more features, channels, etc. ...
i dunno, just defending my investment.
and to whatever fuckup said something about the mixer being made in some southeast asian country for $2/hour ... don't start with racially motivated comments. just because it's made in the USA doesn't guarantee anything, and just because it's made in taiwan or whatever doesn't mean anything either. as an east asian person i am seriously offended by ignorant shit like this.
i dunno, just defending my investment.
and to whatever fuckup said something about the mixer being made in some southeast asian country for $2/hour ... don't start with racially motivated comments. just because it's made in the USA doesn't guarantee anything, and just because it's made in taiwan or whatever doesn't mean anything either. as an east asian person i am seriously offended by ignorant shit like this.
Message 19/23 17-Aug-98 @ 10:12 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
John,
although the eq section in Behringer has a more radical/ european sound, a lot of people like the morerounded sound that you get with the mackie eq. The biggest difference between the behringer,andthe mackie is that the quality of manufacturing, and parts is such that the mackie holds up on the road. It's just a lot tougher than the behringer. I toured with a very good friend who used a behringer. We swapped mixers for a bit. He used my 1202vlz, and I used his mixer (can't remember the designation, but it was a 12 channel, and as big as a 1604. Sounded nice at times, but very tempermental, and fragile. It died by the end of the tour, (which only lasted three months) and he ended up buying a 1404. I still have my 1202, and swear by it. You can find one in the states for 250 or less, used. Doesn't make a difference what race of people make your mixer. The fact is that mackie's are made with a level of quality that other mixers in the price range don't have.
Regarding inserts, the are something that you use if you needed to stick a compressor onto on thing, like a mic, or a kick, but didn't want to clutter up your effects loops, because a snare, or a kick, is going to need a different type of compression than say strings, or guitars, or vox, or what have you. There are all kinds of neat things to experiment with on that one, but basically, an instrument come into the input, goes through the pre-amp, out through the insert and back in ( if you're using one), then through the loops, or eq, and to the main. Make sense? Hope this helps. As for the 1202 vs the 1404, I think that the rotary pots are more durable than the sliders. Sliders aregreat, because you can see your levels more clearly, but if you everplay in a smoky or dusty ordamp place, then the rotary pors will last better. Still,....those two extra channels, and I think that there are boosts on the line level channels as well. Either one is quite good. Good luck on the decision.
Monkey
although the eq section in Behringer has a more radical/ european sound, a lot of people like the morerounded sound that you get with the mackie eq. The biggest difference between the behringer,andthe mackie is that the quality of manufacturing, and parts is such that the mackie holds up on the road. It's just a lot tougher than the behringer. I toured with a very good friend who used a behringer. We swapped mixers for a bit. He used my 1202vlz, and I used his mixer (can't remember the designation, but it was a 12 channel, and as big as a 1604. Sounded nice at times, but very tempermental, and fragile. It died by the end of the tour, (which only lasted three months) and he ended up buying a 1404. I still have my 1202, and swear by it. You can find one in the states for 250 or less, used. Doesn't make a difference what race of people make your mixer. The fact is that mackie's are made with a level of quality that other mixers in the price range don't have.
Regarding inserts, the are something that you use if you needed to stick a compressor onto on thing, like a mic, or a kick, but didn't want to clutter up your effects loops, because a snare, or a kick, is going to need a different type of compression than say strings, or guitars, or vox, or what have you. There are all kinds of neat things to experiment with on that one, but basically, an instrument come into the input, goes through the pre-amp, out through the insert and back in ( if you're using one), then through the loops, or eq, and to the main. Make sense? Hope this helps. As for the 1202 vs the 1404, I think that the rotary pots are more durable than the sliders. Sliders aregreat, because you can see your levels more clearly, but if you everplay in a smoky or dusty ordamp place, then the rotary pors will last better. Still,....those two extra channels, and I think that there are boosts on the line level channels as well. Either one is quite good. Good luck on the decision.
Monkey
Message 20/23 18-Aug-98 @ 11:26 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
hmm....well with channel inserts, why bother? Why not just run the instrument to the FX, then into the channel?
and john, if you find the idea that people in southeast asian countries are being exploited to be a racist one, I invite you to remove your head from your ass. it's okay for nike and behringer and half the companies in the US to run sweatshops and fucking destroy people's lives in these places, but we aren't allowed to point it out? no one mentioned a quality difference because of where the mixers were made (altho it remains true that behringer sucks!!), it was merely a price difference. a big fuckin price difference. and that tells something to the informed consumer. (although obviously not to the insanely nationally proud shithead who insists upon keeping the racism bug alive and twitching in his ass at all times to dangle in front of people who dare refer to the activities of his country of origin in a less than positive light.) i've got no problem with people in southeast asian countries, or anywhere else for that matter, and none of the people here do either....christ, what there is a problem with is exploitive employers who force ungodly labor for shit wages and horrible working conditions. If you find ignoring this kind of shit is beneficial to you and calling those who bring attention to it a bunch of racist bastards, I suggest most emphatically that you are in point of fact FUCKED UP.
anyway, were we on the subject of channel inserts?
and john, if you find the idea that people in southeast asian countries are being exploited to be a racist one, I invite you to remove your head from your ass. it's okay for nike and behringer and half the companies in the US to run sweatshops and fucking destroy people's lives in these places, but we aren't allowed to point it out? no one mentioned a quality difference because of where the mixers were made (altho it remains true that behringer sucks!!), it was merely a price difference. a big fuckin price difference. and that tells something to the informed consumer. (although obviously not to the insanely nationally proud shithead who insists upon keeping the racism bug alive and twitching in his ass at all times to dangle in front of people who dare refer to the activities of his country of origin in a less than positive light.) i've got no problem with people in southeast asian countries, or anywhere else for that matter, and none of the people here do either....christ, what there is a problem with is exploitive employers who force ungodly labor for shit wages and horrible working conditions. If you find ignoring this kind of shit is beneficial to you and calling those who bring attention to it a bunch of racist bastards, I suggest most emphatically that you are in point of fact FUCKED UP.
anyway, were we on the subject of channel inserts?
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