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Forums - Music techology
Subject: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
Original Message Date: 22-Oct-03 @ 07:54 PM - making beats, pre vs postprocessing
OK, my method of making beats is to edit the sounds in soundforge first, SCSI them to hardware sampler, and build a beat from there. It's a fairly basic sampler (esi32) so I can't really do much with FX once the sounds are loaded. I'm quite happy with the results, but sometimes I wish I could stick a reverb on the hihats, or compress the bass drum once the beat is made. On the other hand, I feel I've learned a lot, in this way, about tweaking the sounds in soundforge to sound right from the start; and I have the feeling that needing to use post-processing on a beat is just covering up for a poor choice of sounds to begin with.
So I'm just curious: how do other people go about beat programming: do you do a lot of sound editing before building the beat? or is using VST plugins etc... on the actual beat channels an integral part of your sound? or both?
Thanks!
So I'm just curious: how do other people go about beat programming: do you do a lot of sound editing before building the beat? or is using VST plugins etc... on the actual beat channels an integral part of your sound? or both?
Thanks!
Message 11/25 23-Oct-03 @ 07:42 PM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
errrr...no offense...but do you know what MIXING is? what engineers do?
ok...when I was doing the sampler/scsi method...the only thing I did in Wavelab was trim the samples, or if it was a loop, get it looping at the proper tempo, and then send it over.
ALL further processing was done with either the filters in the sampler, and the EQ and dynamics in my O1v, and/or effects as well (I had two outboard FX processors, a VF-1 and Q2)
now I mix entirely in cubase, and I sequence audio almost exclusively, so I just import/record my sounds into SX and ALL processing is done from there.
theres just no real way to know how it should sound when youre trying to tweak it out of context (of the actual mix)
sure, you can get it close...
ok...when I was doing the sampler/scsi method...the only thing I did in Wavelab was trim the samples, or if it was a loop, get it looping at the proper tempo, and then send it over.
ALL further processing was done with either the filters in the sampler, and the EQ and dynamics in my O1v, and/or effects as well (I had two outboard FX processors, a VF-1 and Q2)
now I mix entirely in cubase, and I sequence audio almost exclusively, so I just import/record my sounds into SX and ALL processing is done from there.
theres just no real way to know how it should sound when youre trying to tweak it out of context (of the actual mix)
sure, you can get it close...
Message 12/25 23-Oct-03 @ 08:03 PM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
Yonce N Mild
Posts: 286
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I think what he is talking about is fx compression not mixing compression. If that makes any sense. I do the same sometimes the perfect example is compressing the "when the levee breaks" kick to make it boom a little more. I do this all the time mangling individual drum hits in sound forge before using them in a drum kit. You still need to do your final mixing eq and compression in the context of the entire mix but pre processing is a good way to freshen up your sounds before you start programming your beats
Message 13/25 23-Oct-03 @ 08:11 PM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
influx,
I understand what mixing is, but I think you can approach things much differently doing sequencer based stuff, then if you're a traditional engineer recording live instruments in a studio. With the live setup, you obviously can't treat the sounds before hand as they don't yet exist. With a sequencer setup where you're triggering samples, you can edit the samples before hand, doing much/some of the work that the traditional engineer would apply to a whole track on the individual samples.
I'm just curious as to how much of the 'post' processing (whole track) you can shift to 'pre' processing (individual sample) when using samples. The more I play around with this, the more it seems like you can get a lot of mileage (and learn a lot) out of editing the samples first. Just curious as to other people's experience.
I can see your point about tweaking out of context, but you can get around this to an extent by continously A/B-ing your sounds with a CD you like the production of. If your drum hits fit into the CD mix, then you're on the right track.
errata, glad to see someone else is still doing it old-school way
I understand what mixing is, but I think you can approach things much differently doing sequencer based stuff, then if you're a traditional engineer recording live instruments in a studio. With the live setup, you obviously can't treat the sounds before hand as they don't yet exist. With a sequencer setup where you're triggering samples, you can edit the samples before hand, doing much/some of the work that the traditional engineer would apply to a whole track on the individual samples.
I'm just curious as to how much of the 'post' processing (whole track) you can shift to 'pre' processing (individual sample) when using samples. The more I play around with this, the more it seems like you can get a lot of mileage (and learn a lot) out of editing the samples first. Just curious as to other people's experience.
I can see your point about tweaking out of context, but you can get around this to an extent by continously A/B-ing your sounds with a CD you like the production of. If your drum hits fit into the CD mix, then you're on the right track.
errata, glad to see someone else is still doing it old-school way
Message 14/25 23-Oct-03 @ 08:34 PM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
Yeah, I often compress just a hit before building a loop out of it... or put a little reverb on a snare, and use it alongside dry snares in a loop. I'm not talking about trying to compress each hit and getting them all to sound right before they're together, but compressing (say a kick, for instance) before it's in the loop, then I get that punchy kick without the same compression (which usually flattens snares and makes hats too harsh) on the whole loop. Then later, I also might use soft knee compression on the whole loop as mastering... during the mix...
does that make sense?
e
does that make sense?
e
Message 15/25 23-Oct-03 @ 09:25 PM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
sorry L$ but I just dont see how you can say what youre saying..
comparing your sounds, to those in another track, means they will work in YOUR track?
anyway...if its what you got..IE not enough outboard to handle individual sounds, then...yeah...probably a necessity
I just lost interest in talking about this
comparing your sounds, to those in another track, means they will work in YOUR track?
anyway...if its what you got..IE not enough outboard to handle individual sounds, then...yeah...probably a necessity
I just lost interest in talking about this
Message 16/25 24-Oct-03 @ 02:45 AM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
As has kinda been said, there is compression for the sake of transparent dynamics control, and then there is compression for the sake of altering a waveform to change a sound. The former can only really be done in the context of an entire mix, but it can be nice to do some of the latter to make your sounds more interesting from the getgo.
I tend to use software samplers nowadays, so I'll call up a kit or chopped loop and mess about with level, pitch, filter, envelopes, etc. for each hit. Usually I can get it to sound like a "kit" through the stereo outs of the soft sampler, without needing to split each hit out to seperate outputs for further processing. I try to level each drum in the kit so it sounds tight with overall compression and FX, which I then apply to the stereo output.. But I'll do a lot there, several compressors in a row, with small amounts of reverb and "transient designers" and stuff like that in between em. So basically I treat my drums as a kit.
If I just can't get it to sit right that way, then I'll split em out and go nuts with processing.
I tend to use software samplers nowadays, so I'll call up a kit or chopped loop and mess about with level, pitch, filter, envelopes, etc. for each hit. Usually I can get it to sound like a "kit" through the stereo outs of the soft sampler, without needing to split each hit out to seperate outputs for further processing. I try to level each drum in the kit so it sounds tight with overall compression and FX, which I then apply to the stereo output.. But I'll do a lot there, several compressors in a row, with small amounts of reverb and "transient designers" and stuff like that in between em. So basically I treat my drums as a kit.
If I just can't get it to sit right that way, then I'll split em out and go nuts with processing.
Message 17/25 24-Oct-03 @ 11:31 AM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
influx, sometimes you sound like a wanker!
Message 18/25 24-Oct-03 @ 01:39 PM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
yes psylichon, that's a good way of putting it.... manipulating drum hits so that they sound like they're from the same kit. That's what I was trying to say, with practice, any drum sample from any source can be edited to sound like it belongs in the same kit as others.
btw the above post wasn't me (honest)
btw the above post wasn't me (honest)
Message 19/25 24-Oct-03 @ 02:22 PM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
Yonce N Mild
Posts: 286
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Always cool to talk shit and not log in. Your last post did sound kinda aristocratic Influx...........this conversation bores me ...take him away [waves hand dismissively]. Admit it your just pissed cause he asked if you use sample CDs.
Message 20/25 24-Oct-03 @ 07:31 PM - RE: making beats, pre vs postprocessing
errr...no...it didnt sound anything. I just lost interest in talking about it. Im becoming more and more on the "dont offer your opinion" tip
I already stated what I thought...sounds need to be in context to be processed right, but the point was made that if youre just "making" sounds...using dynamics etc for effect and not clarity, then you can do whatever.
aristocratic eh?
I do love it when people mouth off anon. lame
I already stated what I thought...sounds need to be in context to be processed right, but the point was made that if youre just "making" sounds...using dynamics etc for effect and not clarity, then you can do whatever.
aristocratic eh?
I do love it when people mouth off anon. lame
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