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Forums - Music techology
Subject: s900 vs Emax
Original Message Date: 19-Sep-98 @ 04:19 AM - s900 vs Emax
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
all right folks, it's dragged on for a while now and i'm down to either the s900 or the emax, having ruled out the roland because you need a separate disk for every set of functions...
This is going to be used primarily, if not exclusively, for drums, so ease of setting up basic patches and patch organization are really important. Also, i need it by the middle of next month.
I'm still not sure if i'll get paid back for the emax, if not this whole point is moot. But if I do, there is a s900 in recycler for $350, and a s950 for $400. (I could probably haggle for either.) Good deal? Bad deal? How do they compare feature-wise and sound-wise to emax? can the emax timestretch? (the 950 can.) jest lookin for some pointers, outside of Kilo's reccomendations...
This is going to be used primarily, if not exclusively, for drums, so ease of setting up basic patches and patch organization are really important. Also, i need it by the middle of next month.
I'm still not sure if i'll get paid back for the emax, if not this whole point is moot. But if I do, there is a s900 in recycler for $350, and a s950 for $400. (I could probably haggle for either.) Good deal? Bad deal? How do they compare feature-wise and sound-wise to emax? can the emax timestretch? (the 950 can.) jest lookin for some pointers, outside of Kilo's reccomendations...
Message 11/34 20-Sep-98 @ 10:59 PM - RE: s900 vs Emax
Fuck that guy, find him and take him out. Post warnings on the classifieds, PLS!
Once and for all, Buggo, you need to stop fucking around w/ a bunch of useless kit. Things like Hardware Sequencers, tx81z's, and EMAX's, they're perks, nice when you've already got your central platform hooked up, but for now you're jacked. You've been listening to too many of us spoiled-ass old hats that have more kit than any project studio should ever need; we can afford to have the perks 'cause our systems are already so dialed-in at the core.
Get yourself an mpc, mc-303, or Making Waves, they have their short-comings but they're the most intuitive platforms you're going to find. DON'T believe fools that try to say a machine exists that has NO shortcomings, it doesn't exist and there are many reasons you don't WANT it to exist.
If anyone wants to slag me for these recommendations you're missing the point: the DAY you get making waves or a groovebox or an mpc, you will write a track. They are not simplistic, rather they make sense. Newbies armed w/ this kind of kit can get their shit together FIRST and then pick up the extra's as they go along, instead of struggling the way influx and buggo have been doing.
A lot of what I've said is simply reiterating excellent points kilo has made in the past but seems to have gotten away from (no offense, "mate," but you've jumped on certain bandwagons hastily of late). I was talking to influx the other day, and I realized just how frustrating it must be for him, struggling for so long to get so few results. Personally, my early forays into electronic music were never so difficult, and there's no reason anybody should have to go through that much shit in life.
Buggo, look back at some threads earlier this year about mpc's and making waves, there's enough testimony from satisfied users (like myself) to back up my statements.
Once and for all, Buggo, you need to stop fucking around w/ a bunch of useless kit. Things like Hardware Sequencers, tx81z's, and EMAX's, they're perks, nice when you've already got your central platform hooked up, but for now you're jacked. You've been listening to too many of us spoiled-ass old hats that have more kit than any project studio should ever need; we can afford to have the perks 'cause our systems are already so dialed-in at the core.
Get yourself an mpc, mc-303, or Making Waves, they have their short-comings but they're the most intuitive platforms you're going to find. DON'T believe fools that try to say a machine exists that has NO shortcomings, it doesn't exist and there are many reasons you don't WANT it to exist.
If anyone wants to slag me for these recommendations you're missing the point: the DAY you get making waves or a groovebox or an mpc, you will write a track. They are not simplistic, rather they make sense. Newbies armed w/ this kind of kit can get their shit together FIRST and then pick up the extra's as they go along, instead of struggling the way influx and buggo have been doing.
A lot of what I've said is simply reiterating excellent points kilo has made in the past but seems to have gotten away from (no offense, "mate," but you've jumped on certain bandwagons hastily of late). I was talking to influx the other day, and I realized just how frustrating it must be for him, struggling for so long to get so few results. Personally, my early forays into electronic music were never so difficult, and there's no reason anybody should have to go through that much shit in life.
Buggo, look back at some threads earlier this year about mpc's and making waves, there's enough testimony from satisfied users (like myself) to back up my statements.
Message 12/34 20-Sep-98 @ 11:29 PM - RE: s900 vs Emax
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
ah yes, if i could afford an MPC i'd do it in a minute...i fuckin love 'em...but i hardly have that much at a pop to blow on a device like that. If i COULD get something like that, that would be...IT. I'd keep my juno and maybe get a few cheap old s/h synths, but no big purchases...and I already bought making waves 1.83, it's not a bad program and I HAVE made a shitload of tracks with it, some of which suck and soem of which are rather good. it's quite a limiting program though, and i can't put down a lot of my ideas because it IS so simplistic...
i've been into electronic music for about a year and half now, and i think i've come a way...i started out using seq-303 and my AWE64's GM sounds to make some pretty cool tracks, then downloaded hammerhead and did a lot of tracks with ONLY hammerhead...then got rebirth demo, VAZ, and a few other softsynths, and making waves, and i've put together some nice shit. but i hate the process. i feel so restricted when i'm clicking a mouse and looking at a bunch of virtual shit...where production, rather than fun (which is the reason we all do this, no?) is the goal...i got more creative in my first month with the Juno than i was in the entire year before that with software. While i actually haven't made as many finished tracks since getting it, i have a bunch that are in the works, ideas in my head, that i'm trying to implement, as i see fit...i'm not obligated to throw together a line in 30 minutes on the rebirth demo, or not be able to save my ideas on VAZ, because they're all in my head or on paper...
and the way i see it, getting finished tracks out isn't the goal...no one ever listens to my music but me; my parents and friends hate it and i don't go out on the streetcorners to promote myself...nor does anyone ever visit my web site...i do it for me and because it makes me feel good, not because productivity is my goal...
playing live is a goal of mine, and in order to do that I NEED HARDWARE. also, based on my past experiences with hardware, i know it adds a great deal to the creative process because of the flexibility hardware allows you that only expensive, boring computer audio packages costing hundreds of dollars can do...so my goals are modest: a sampler, sequencer, a few synths, and some effects. i've already got one very good synth and some nice effects pedals, so i'm well on my way.
and about your comment regarding MW...it's a fucking audio sequencer!! it's not bad at that (although i have some major problems with some of the stupid shit it does) but where are you gonna get yer sounds to put in it? I've already got hammerhead, and if you're thinking software, hmm...Rebirth is $179...for that price i could get that tx81z and some effects, or a good hardware sequencer...VAZ isn't as much, but it also costs a fair bit o'cash, and i absolutely hate the rubberduck sound...so i've gotta sink some $$ into SOMETHING...is it gonna be some software that is stuck on my computer, is nonportable and prone to crashing and I have to interface with a mouse and keyboard (or an external MIDI controller, which costs money) or is it going to be hardware, which for the most part is more reliable, is portable and giggable, and that lets me get some truly unique sounds?
i've been into electronic music for about a year and half now, and i think i've come a way...i started out using seq-303 and my AWE64's GM sounds to make some pretty cool tracks, then downloaded hammerhead and did a lot of tracks with ONLY hammerhead...then got rebirth demo, VAZ, and a few other softsynths, and making waves, and i've put together some nice shit. but i hate the process. i feel so restricted when i'm clicking a mouse and looking at a bunch of virtual shit...where production, rather than fun (which is the reason we all do this, no?) is the goal...i got more creative in my first month with the Juno than i was in the entire year before that with software. While i actually haven't made as many finished tracks since getting it, i have a bunch that are in the works, ideas in my head, that i'm trying to implement, as i see fit...i'm not obligated to throw together a line in 30 minutes on the rebirth demo, or not be able to save my ideas on VAZ, because they're all in my head or on paper...
and the way i see it, getting finished tracks out isn't the goal...no one ever listens to my music but me; my parents and friends hate it and i don't go out on the streetcorners to promote myself...nor does anyone ever visit my web site...i do it for me and because it makes me feel good, not because productivity is my goal...
playing live is a goal of mine, and in order to do that I NEED HARDWARE. also, based on my past experiences with hardware, i know it adds a great deal to the creative process because of the flexibility hardware allows you that only expensive, boring computer audio packages costing hundreds of dollars can do...so my goals are modest: a sampler, sequencer, a few synths, and some effects. i've already got one very good synth and some nice effects pedals, so i'm well on my way.
and about your comment regarding MW...it's a fucking audio sequencer!! it's not bad at that (although i have some major problems with some of the stupid shit it does) but where are you gonna get yer sounds to put in it? I've already got hammerhead, and if you're thinking software, hmm...Rebirth is $179...for that price i could get that tx81z and some effects, or a good hardware sequencer...VAZ isn't as much, but it also costs a fair bit o'cash, and i absolutely hate the rubberduck sound...so i've gotta sink some $$ into SOMETHING...is it gonna be some software that is stuck on my computer, is nonportable and prone to crashing and I have to interface with a mouse and keyboard (or an external MIDI controller, which costs money) or is it going to be hardware, which for the most part is more reliable, is portable and giggable, and that lets me get some truly unique sounds?
Message 13/34 21-Sep-98 @ 12:23 AM - RE: s900 vs Emax
BTW, this is Hilevelt, I didn't mean to take that micro-slag out on kilo w/ anonymity. One day we're brawling, old man, and I means to get you good and riled up for when that day comes (grrrr...;)
Here goes, Buggo:
well, you wasted nearly as much money to get far less gains on your mc-300, emax, and tx81z (my mpc cost me $800, & it's not the best deal I've seen)
FULL midi support (including recording the controller info sent by your juno), built-in effects, support for multiple sound cards so you can utilize all your stomp-boxes and a good h/w mixer, etc. etc. Additionally, the new hi res mixing mode actually sounds BETTER than my mpc! Again, it doesn't do everything, but it's close and is in many ways superior to an mpc. My partner wants to rackmount a pc so he can use Making Waves live.
Hehe, if you're not creative enough to make your own samples, then you don't even need to talk about unique sounds.
Whatever. Disregard the advice if you want, but don't fuckin' bitch about shit being cryptic and limiting when you're running an mc-300 and a tx81z.
Here goes, Buggo:
well, you wasted nearly as much money to get far less gains on your mc-300, emax, and tx81z (my mpc cost me $800, & it's not the best deal I've seen)
FULL midi support (including recording the controller info sent by your juno), built-in effects, support for multiple sound cards so you can utilize all your stomp-boxes and a good h/w mixer, etc. etc. Additionally, the new hi res mixing mode actually sounds BETTER than my mpc! Again, it doesn't do everything, but it's close and is in many ways superior to an mpc. My partner wants to rackmount a pc so he can use Making Waves live.
Hehe, if you're not creative enough to make your own samples, then you don't even need to talk about unique sounds.
Whatever. Disregard the advice if you want, but don't fuckin' bitch about shit being cryptic and limiting when you're running an mc-300 and a tx81z.
Message 14/34 21-Sep-98 @ 01:50 AM - RE: s900 vs Emax
Man, quit talkin bout me...makes me paranoid...I think I have more done than you think, Hil, but Im starting to agree that Ive sort of jumped in on the slightly complicated side...that ESI is a little...quirky...the Emax is cool, but seems to be trippin...
with what Ive spent I could easily have an MPC, an effects box and a small mixer...Im leanin in that direction (now).
But Hilevelt...Im this short of callin you a hypocrite...IVE SEEN YOUR STUDIO!!! If anyone's gone a little overboard...! BUT, since one of the (many) things youve said to me that made a lot of sense was that if you were to start over, it would be with an MPC2000 and little else...I heard that, brother, and listened. Ive heard it more than once...but the fucked up thing is that youre criticizing that kid (buggo-and me on the side) for being enthusiastic...maybe his (and my) enthusiasm have led us to "jump on the bandwagon" but its only cuz when we hear tracks we think "DAMN-I wanna make something that would make others feel the way that track made me feel!" That is my only reason for getting involved with this whole deal! NOT to make money...or even get a release, although that would be VERY cool, if only to hear my shit in a DJ set...LOUD and bumpin!!!
Dont get me wrong, friend, your opinion has been valuable to me, and still is...It just seems like youre scoffing at us "newbies" cuz of our...haste regarding trying to get some sounds out of our heads, into some sort of sequencer...
anyway...Ive seriously been considering doin what you (and others) have said, and downsizing. SImplicity is my friend, and it seems like an MPC would do the trick...can I come check yours out sometime?
BTW...swingsett at Science tonight...goin?
with what Ive spent I could easily have an MPC, an effects box and a small mixer...Im leanin in that direction (now).
But Hilevelt...Im this short of callin you a hypocrite...IVE SEEN YOUR STUDIO!!! If anyone's gone a little overboard...! BUT, since one of the (many) things youve said to me that made a lot of sense was that if you were to start over, it would be with an MPC2000 and little else...I heard that, brother, and listened. Ive heard it more than once...but the fucked up thing is that youre criticizing that kid (buggo-and me on the side) for being enthusiastic...maybe his (and my) enthusiasm have led us to "jump on the bandwagon" but its only cuz when we hear tracks we think "DAMN-I wanna make something that would make others feel the way that track made me feel!" That is my only reason for getting involved with this whole deal! NOT to make money...or even get a release, although that would be VERY cool, if only to hear my shit in a DJ set...LOUD and bumpin!!!
Dont get me wrong, friend, your opinion has been valuable to me, and still is...It just seems like youre scoffing at us "newbies" cuz of our...haste regarding trying to get some sounds out of our heads, into some sort of sequencer...
anyway...Ive seriously been considering doin what you (and others) have said, and downsizing. SImplicity is my friend, and it seems like an MPC would do the trick...can I come check yours out sometime?
BTW...swingsett at Science tonight...goin?
Message 15/34 21-Sep-98 @ 02:14 AM - RE: s900 vs Emax
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
i'm perplexed by the italics...is that a quote from somebody or is that your slag?
and in fact, right now i have NO gear except the juno and some FX...the tx for some reason got shipped back to the sender before i had a chance to pick it up (it was only here for like a day...strange) and the emax is broken. yes, i will conceed that a broken emax does very little good. but the mc was great; i only got it because it was cheap and i could sell it for a profit (which i later did) and i wanted to learn about MIDI. and I had WAY more fun with that MC than i ever did with fuckin cakewalk...
let's see...even if I still had the MC, the emax worked, and the TX actually got here, i would have only spent about $500...I've never seen an mpc as cheap as $800; if they come that cheap then i'm ditching all my shit right now, seriously....the cheapest i've ever seen one is $900 and it said in the ad that it was trashed to fuck and was unexpanded. and i always HAVE wanted an MPC...it was the very first piece of gear i looked into when i wanted to start makin tunes...
and what's this about not being creative enough to make my own samples? what am i supposed to do, scream into a mic and timestretch it with some FX? (i've done this...he he..) I mean how the bloody fuck do you MAKE samples? (i've created my whole drum archive out of a few sample sets i downloaded on the web...what with timestretching, convolving, echoing, etc i've got a nice collection...but synth sounds? please explain.)
with making waves: multiple sound cards? what does that entail other than $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?
and an example of why making waves sucks: when you're making a sequence with individual notes, you can't specify how long each note is, or quantize to anything other than 8ths, 16ths and 32's...when you divide a measure up to make a drum track, if, say, you divide it into 16th notes, and your sample is longer than 1/16 note, it will get cut off...it doesn't just play thru...this means if you have like a vocal sample that's a few bars long, you can't start it in the middle of a bar unless you add silence to the beginning in an audio editor...fucking sucks for a lot of stuff. making waves better than an MPC? methinks no...does making waves have big fat velo sensitive pads for playing yer beats? or that cool variation slider? i'm talking live here, LIVE MAN!! i'm not lugging me goddamn computer about...and the MPC is suited for the studio AND for live shit...fucking excellent box; MW can't touch it....
if you ever see one again for a reasonable price, let me know. i would gladly have it as my only piece of kit for a while. but not if they are only selling for upwards of $1100, which is pretty much as low as i see them (with the exception noted above.)
and don't fucking slag me for not wanting to follow your advice when your advice is basically to tell me that i'm wasting my money, my time and my life on a bunch of useless shit.
and in fact, right now i have NO gear except the juno and some FX...the tx for some reason got shipped back to the sender before i had a chance to pick it up (it was only here for like a day...strange) and the emax is broken. yes, i will conceed that a broken emax does very little good. but the mc was great; i only got it because it was cheap and i could sell it for a profit (which i later did) and i wanted to learn about MIDI. and I had WAY more fun with that MC than i ever did with fuckin cakewalk...
let's see...even if I still had the MC, the emax worked, and the TX actually got here, i would have only spent about $500...I've never seen an mpc as cheap as $800; if they come that cheap then i'm ditching all my shit right now, seriously....the cheapest i've ever seen one is $900 and it said in the ad that it was trashed to fuck and was unexpanded. and i always HAVE wanted an MPC...it was the very first piece of gear i looked into when i wanted to start makin tunes...
and what's this about not being creative enough to make my own samples? what am i supposed to do, scream into a mic and timestretch it with some FX? (i've done this...he he..) I mean how the bloody fuck do you MAKE samples? (i've created my whole drum archive out of a few sample sets i downloaded on the web...what with timestretching, convolving, echoing, etc i've got a nice collection...but synth sounds? please explain.)
with making waves: multiple sound cards? what does that entail other than $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$?
and an example of why making waves sucks: when you're making a sequence with individual notes, you can't specify how long each note is, or quantize to anything other than 8ths, 16ths and 32's...when you divide a measure up to make a drum track, if, say, you divide it into 16th notes, and your sample is longer than 1/16 note, it will get cut off...it doesn't just play thru...this means if you have like a vocal sample that's a few bars long, you can't start it in the middle of a bar unless you add silence to the beginning in an audio editor...fucking sucks for a lot of stuff. making waves better than an MPC? methinks no...does making waves have big fat velo sensitive pads for playing yer beats? or that cool variation slider? i'm talking live here, LIVE MAN!! i'm not lugging me goddamn computer about...and the MPC is suited for the studio AND for live shit...fucking excellent box; MW can't touch it....
if you ever see one again for a reasonable price, let me know. i would gladly have it as my only piece of kit for a while. but not if they are only selling for upwards of $1100, which is pretty much as low as i see them (with the exception noted above.)
and don't fucking slag me for not wanting to follow your advice when your advice is basically to tell me that i'm wasting my money, my time and my life on a bunch of useless shit.
Message 16/34 21-Sep-98 @ 04:33 AM - RE: s900 vs Emax
alright people.... go back to your lives there's nothing to see... heh heh.... actually Hilly, i reckon Buggo's just either got the clumsiest postman in the state, ..( hey buggo mate.. i reckon your postie is like Jim carey doin the delivery in Pet Detective)....or he's unlucky... if he had the emax, juno & tx.. i'd pick that system any day to work with if the choice was an mpc..... not dissin it, mate, but i think the other set up's more versatile...and after all... so you got an mpc?... what you going to do with it.??.... y' still gotta get something to-go... he's got a better balanced pallete revolved around a classic synth there.... you cant possibley underate the power of some fm sounds like the double hollow square basses and stuff.... huge, and impossible to get from other units that way and so cheap... the emax is good and versatile... and with the juno... there ya go... it's a bloody good system.... you need a sequencer buggo mate..... and you can gig... don't sweat it mate....... c'mon buggo.... keep it up... you'll get something sorted out.... .. stay cool, and something will sort out.....
Message 17/34 21-Sep-98 @ 04:42 AM - RE: s900 vs Emax
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
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me hopes so...but first i need to actually get that fucking TX, fix the emax, and get a sequencer!! (and i thought I'd just ordered a bunch of gear????? my mixer's the only thing that came intact!!)
the cool thing about this is if the PO pays me the insurance money, i'll be getting a broken emax for free...maybe $100 or so to fix it, maybe more...in any event not a bad deal...i just feel somehow that i'm compromising myself to just collect the insurance and not hit the guy up...but how to go about it? hmm...
the cool thing about this is if the PO pays me the insurance money, i'll be getting a broken emax for free...maybe $100 or so to fix it, maybe more...in any event not a bad deal...i just feel somehow that i'm compromising myself to just collect the insurance and not hit the guy up...but how to go about it? hmm...
Message 18/34 21-Sep-98 @ 08:03 AM - RE: s900 vs Emax
I dont know where the italics came from up there...good thing I fuckin even said anything...yeah, buggo...keep it up mate...wanna buy an emax (and a TX)? 
Fuck all this...Im gonna go do nothing with the big load of useless crap that I have!
Fuck all this...Im gonna go do nothing with the big load of useless crap that I have!
Message 19/34 21-Sep-98 @ 08:22 AM - RE: s900 vs Emax
buggo
Posts: 8
Link?: No link
File?: No file
well if you ever feel like selling yer tx, i'm a taker!!
(synths for the damned? spare a synth for the damned, sir?) <--(spoken in a weak old man voice)
(synths for the damned? spare a synth for the damned, sir?) <--(spoken in a weak old man voice)
Message 20/34 21-Sep-98 @ 10:42 PM - RE: s900 vs Emax
Actually, the only slag intended was towards those of us on this site that have been giving poor advice to newbies lately.
I own things like emax's, tx's, sp-12's, mpc's, s-50's, etc., all very cool pieces of kit that I would recommend for just about anybody. BUT, what I'm trying to convey here, is that one needs to have a proper central platform to build off of. I'm not talking samplers or analog vs. fm or any of that crap, but proper midi sequencers or audio recorders.
It seems that every few days buggo is back on here with some new woe about equipment that he'd purchased at least partially because of advice given on this site. I think back to when I said you ought to get an s-550, which IS a great sampler and has a uniqe sound you can't get on any other machine, but it's not necessarily for newbies. The tx81z is the same way, I mean if we're going to recommend something as complex and cryptic as fm it might as well be a dx100 or 27, which are much simpler to program (better interfaces) and feature more presets.
At the same time, it exasperates me to read your criticism of Making Waves, buggo. If you take some time to properly read the manual, you'll see that each point you've brought up has been resolved (including the sample cutoff stuff).
In addition, since I own an mpc AND Making Waves, I feel I am in a much better position to make a judgement about the two. It is in my opinion that while MW has (a few) weaknesses, it is more than made up for by it's intuitiveness and the excellent method of arrangement (one of the mpc's weaknesses).
I own things like emax's, tx's, sp-12's, mpc's, s-50's, etc., all very cool pieces of kit that I would recommend for just about anybody. BUT, what I'm trying to convey here, is that one needs to have a proper central platform to build off of. I'm not talking samplers or analog vs. fm or any of that crap, but proper midi sequencers or audio recorders.
It seems that every few days buggo is back on here with some new woe about equipment that he'd purchased at least partially because of advice given on this site. I think back to when I said you ought to get an s-550, which IS a great sampler and has a uniqe sound you can't get on any other machine, but it's not necessarily for newbies. The tx81z is the same way, I mean if we're going to recommend something as complex and cryptic as fm it might as well be a dx100 or 27, which are much simpler to program (better interfaces) and feature more presets.
At the same time, it exasperates me to read your criticism of Making Waves, buggo. If you take some time to properly read the manual, you'll see that each point you've brought up has been resolved (including the sample cutoff stuff).
In addition, since I own an mpc AND Making Waves, I feel I am in a much better position to make a judgement about the two. It is in my opinion that while MW has (a few) weaknesses, it is more than made up for by it's intuitiveness and the excellent method of arrangement (one of the mpc's weaknesses).
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