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Forums - Music techology
Subject: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 10
Original Message Date: 01-Oct-04 @ 11:22 AM - Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
Nice looking units, metal case, plastic end-cheeks, post and faders seem fairly solid. Nice small footprint, a nice size for going on a multimedia suite desktop ok.
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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 11/93 02-Oct-04 @ 04:41 PM Edit: 03-Oct-04 | 01:27 AM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
the Mackie Control emulation apparently has to be 'setup' , but the documentation advises the following:
Switch ON the BCF2000 and wait until “EG” (EDIT GLOBAL MODE)
is indicated on the display
Edit the global settings with the push encoders 1 to 8 as the
operating mode and device ID
After having completed your selections, press the EXIT button to
get into the preselected emulation mode
lol... ok then!.... the fact it give NO information at all about editing the global settings seems irrelevent - without instructions and with only a cryptic LED display you've got no chance to get this sorted without talking to Behringer.
using generic remote i had better luck EXCEPT PAN... for some reason, PAN is missing from the generic remote assignments in SX so you can set everything (albeit time consuming) EXCEPT flipping pan! - Pan just will not work! - and yes, the data being sent from BCF is correct cos I checked it.
So... it'll do stuff like open the channel-edit, select channel, etc etc, all fine... no pan tho *sigh*
I dont want to move on to synth control unless this is sorted out
ironic that Logic TEMPLATE actualy works.... I assumed SX would be way easier to setup which it is genericaly and offers WAY more parameters.... it's just a shame the MACKIE CONTROL emulation doesnt work without settings which arent supplied at all..
no doubt there's a fix for PAN in SX's 'Generic Remote' settings... but it simply is missing from the list even tho it states quite categoricaly that it SHOULD be listed as an option
anyways, notwithstanding this PAN thing, i can say with SX you'll be able to control anything you like easily with the generic remote setup.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 12/93 02-Oct-04 @ 06:38 PM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
seems
group 1 is send on/off (1-8 sends for selected channel)
group 2 is send amount
group 3 is pre/post
in that first mode pressing the pot cuts ALL sends regardless which pot you press
ok this is more like it.....
----
oh... er..... well, it works to record, but not to overwrite/update - doesnt work.... it just writes incorrect data for volume... it'll 'touch' pickup, but writes the current value of the fader, PLUS it keeps writing nodes inbetween of the current TRIM volume level, so on playback you get a rapidly jerking fader flipping like crazy from the written level to the trim default level which can be a difference of 40db or more if you're doing radical fades.....
I tried it in generic remote, still doesn't work.... same thing... writes ok, cant update over previously written data...
eee.... again, this would be because the faders on the controller arent touch sensitive I guess...
so as far as I've got with no documentation of any use, and no help available, it works in terms of 'controlling', electing things etc.... It follows the sequencer ok updating always on the physical hardware, but... I think again it's down to the s/w, it just can reliably update previously written data in SX anyways
oh dear... well mebbe i'm missing something, but I'm usualy ok at working stuff out.
I think it's useful to leave these progression notes, rather than waiting and then popping up and saying "Oh yes!... easy, it works like this!" as if it was no problem to sort out.
let's see what happens over time.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 13/93 02-Oct-04 @ 08:56 PM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
Message 14/93 02-Oct-04 @ 09:19 PM Edit: 03-Oct-04 | 01:30 AM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
yeah, but it's no fun to sort out - a noob would have an absolute nightmare frankly
I think it's not Behringers fault, (well, at this price you cant expect touch sensitive faders) ... Really, the truth is, and we all know it, the s/w makers fight to gain customers from each other, there's no co-operation, and to have things like automation still controlled by an archaic pile of crap like midi in this day and age is UTTERLY rediculous. After around 7-8 years of useable s/w 'virtual studios' by now these sort of devices should all be plug & play, and it should be as simple as plugging it in, applying a template driver and off you go.
The idea that one (OR the company itself!) has to fart around creating 'in-between' workaround 'patching' solutions is frankly silly in my book.
still, it's never going to happen is it.
so i dunno, unless there's a fix I cant find the reality sadly is that, as a controller, sure, these units are good, plenty of pots and fader if required, but as a mixer control?... well, again, ok... for such a relatively low outlay, it DOES provide quick access to s/w features to avoid continual mouse-fatigue... But, you cant use fader automation in it's true sense if it's impossible to overwrite edits smoothly
I'll keep at it tho, there mebbe IS an answer - I dont even want to move on to controlling of s/w synths unless the mixer control is useable.
again, i'd stress, this isnt Behringer making a cock-up as far as I can see, it's the s/w it is trying to control that could mebbe fix it
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 15/93 03-Oct-04 @ 01:41 AM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
once you've setup and have learned the keypresses and got used to things, you can select tracks, adjust fader, pan, sends, and more... In fact on one forum a Logic user was saying he could adjust the plugins and synths native to Logic opening a plugin slot & even selecting the plugin, then editing
that apparently was with this 5.5.1 stuff - I'll check more out later.
in reality, when we work with my system on everything from score to mixing or producing tracks, we rarely do alot of fader work. More often we'll use faders to drop out sections of audio, then bring it back again , or adjust offset between audio files on the same track.. a fadeout at the end... but we rarely ever do fader movements of any depth... like 'Riding the fader'... so it's not like this latching thing IF unresolvable makes these controllers unuseable or less value... if it was more expensive that could be a real issue, but I dunno, 150 or less quid for ability to adjust most common things on your sequencer from hardware is good.
to be honest i'd pay that price over a year, just to have the ability to select tracks in the mixer so i dont have to scroll... I HATE all that scrolling!
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 16/93 03-Oct-04 @ 05:06 AM Edit: 04-Oct-04 | 10:26 AM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
ok, with the mackie control emulation, you step L/R with the PRESET keys, and that moves in steps of 8 channel blocks, up/down.
there's 4 buttons underneath the 4 Encoder Group buttons - The 4 buttons access 4 different sets of controls for each selected preset (changes groups of tracks)
I stacked the 4 buttons on paper in order of most used,
--------------
Bottom left is ONE - Main - Vol & Pan - Encoder Group buttons for 'shift'
this selection gives
Vol fader
pan -pot / (shift) Monitoring on/off
mute / (Shift) and hit the Mute button and you get solo
channel select buttons
------------------
Top Left is TWO - eq - Encoder Group buttons shift between bank 1 & 2
each 'bank' splits the 8 pots in half to give 4 bands of the EQ with 4 parameters per band
1-4 pots = EQ1 - gain/freq/Q/on&off
5-8 pots = EQ2 - gain/freq/Q/on&off
X 2 with the bank shift to get the same for EQ3 & EQ4
-----------------
BOTTOM Right I called THREE - Aux Sends - Encoder Group buttons shift between bank 1 & 2 -
in bank 1, all 8 pots control the send amount - on Sends 1-8
in bank 2, all 8 pots control ON/OFF - on Sends 1-8
in bank 3, all 8 pots control Pre/Post switch - on Sends 1-8
in bank 4, all 8 pots control Buss select (scroll thru list) - on Sends 1-8
-------------
TOP Right I called FOUR - Inserts - Encoder Group buttons shift between bank 1 & 2
This one takes more figuring
Bank 1 is:
Pot 1 = select Insert 1-8
Pot 2 = On/Off
Pot 3 = select plugin (scroll thru list)
Pot 4 5 6 7 & 8 I cant see what they do yet (only pt 5 of those shows an indicator)
then you can step up in as many additional banks as is required for the plugin's parameters - many VST ones show all parameters controllable and work left to right across as on the effect plugin's panel - For example, all the Kjaerhus Audio plugs work as compatible VST plugins - all controls are mapped
--------------
you use the Preset control to scroll LEFT/RIGHT up the banks of 8 audio channels (i'm talking on a '24 audio tracks' template), the BCF just updates to show the settings for the same section you are in (vol/pan, eq, sends, inserts) for the next audio 8 tracks
Nice! - you gotta get used ot it, it's like going back to hardware sequencer, but with basic commands... using the scribble strip to add labels might help, but memory is best
that's what i got out of it tonight - the Pots dont suffer from this 'latching' problem - they aint motorised but use a visual outer indicator so they can be virtual, and they work smooth as can be, always picking up where the current position is for Pan, Send etc
for fx, it's weirder - the 'touch' fader display greys when you go to update some moves and it writes over the old stuff
---------------------
there is one thing - I'm getting a delay before the touch controller stuff reverts back to reading after letting go of the fader - not sure why that is yet.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 17/93 06-Oct-04 @ 02:10 PM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
but with only 24 audio tracks, i can step thru them doing all the above (sends, inserts, eq (although oddly the eq is back to front - 'page'/bank 1 operates eq band 3 & 4, and bank 2 operates 1 & 2 - lol) and of course fader and pan
now the interesting bit - the next 2 presets operate midi tracks 1-8 & 9-16
THEN.... add some VSTi's, and the NEXT bank seems to detect them and offer pan & volume also - if the VSTi has front and rear outs you get both in sequence on consecutive fader
I didnt try adding like 16 VSTi's yet.... that's be interesting
One thing wierd happened tho - at one point (dunno when), my pc keyboard got 'locked' into scroll lock and all keyboard use died and locked up - had to reboot to get it to work again and unplug it and re-plug it in.
dunno why that happened....
anyways, assuming the device doesnt kill your keyboard (all key commands were inpoerative... I'll try it again later) - it works really good for SX
OK, AT THIS PRICE YOU AINT GOING TO GET FULL-ON AUTOMATION (AND I STILL DIDNT TRY yet with the BCR serialled in.... but for 150 quid, to have the ability to simply select tracks and adjust levels and pan, adjust sends & eq etc is very good value I think
I'll try the BCR added in and see what that gives me, but again, for the money it's VERY useful for SX work and worth the money I'd say even with ONLY the one BCF and even with using only those track & aux track commands.... bearing in mind you can pretty much use SX in arrange-page view with the added left-hand channel strip, it's supremely useful to be able to select tracks WITHOUT faffing about using the mouse
in mixer view, again, selecting a track flips the mixer to scroll L/R to the selected track, so no messing about scrolling
Yup... you could shave alot of hours off your day using one of these
Now Logic.... eeeee.... doesnt seem so smooth - I loaded all the special files and it responds.... Play the logic song and everything on the BCR follows the faders etc but I didnt get it to work the other way round
more to come
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 18/93 06-Oct-04 @ 11:06 PM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
Well I think someone at Behringer needs to experiment more with their own products, because I've discovered something they dont seem to know!!!
You will NOT beleive this tho!!..... I cant beleive it myself!!... I just seem to have stumbled upon something awesome for Logic users on the old PC 5.5 version
ok - i've got, (from ONE BCF), without using ANY behringer 'special files' .... That's the sysex files for the BCF or the special Logic .LSO files & using ONLY Emagic's Logic Control setup in Logic itself & the BCF set to 'Logic Control' emulation:
This is what i've got working perfectly:
48 audio tracks (I only added 48 audio tracks cos i think that is enuff but it'll do more if you want to add 'em!!)
64 audio instrument tracks
16 busses
4 x stereo OUTs
16 midi tracks
all with Vol fader, pan, eq where applicable (audio tracks only), plugin insert select & control, send select & control etc
all I CAN'T do is select VSTi's on the Instrument channels (Didn't figure out of that's possible yet, but it looks like a NO), and I aint figured out yet how to access PAGE 2/3 control of some of the effects...
some of the plugin effects display 'PAGE 1/3' or 'Page 1/2' on the BCFVIEW screen - and it's not the usual one of using the Encoder Group buttons like when using the BCF with SX2 (where it works fine for stepping up the pages)
anyways MOST of the main parameters for Logic's plugin FX are available and controllable!
However, there may be MORE abilities
stay tooned - but for the price that is MAZING!!! - let's face it, what you really need is the ability to select & adjust much more than to do any realtime controlling - it will do all that of course (read & write automation)
Regarding the 'Latching' problem when trying to use the faders in TOUCH mode - you cant do it - the fader fights you all the way
The way to do it is to put the locator at the song position where you want to start to overwrite the controller data & touch the fader... THEN hit play and you can move it just fine and overwrite.... release and it reads again
awesome - I cant for the life of me understand why the hell Behringer didnt know this about their own flipping product!!!
oh well....
good news eh - and this is with Logic 5.5.0 - it doesnt apparently need 5.5.1 to work!
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 19/93 06-Oct-04 @ 11:09 PM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
you can tailor everything for how YOU work
if you use only ever a max of 8 audio tracks, but usualy need 24 or 32 Instrument tracks, but only 8 Busses for FX... FINE!... you can set it up that way NO probs
the other thing is you can arrange the order in ANY way you like to work for stepping thru the presets (channels) on the BCF
IF you prefer to have yourt audio instruments FIRST on say BCF Presets 1 & 2 (16 instruments) fine... you can have it like that... then your 8 audio tracks next or mebbe you prefer next is your Busses for quickly flipping to adjust fx return levels
yup!.... you can arrange it ANY way you like and without touching the BCF at all!
hey hey!
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
Message 20/93 07-Oct-04 @ 10:48 AM - RE: Behringer Controllers BCF/BCR
found a way to add plugin Instrument, and like with the plugins fx, as soon as you select it, it opens... but... like the fx, it opens on the first edit pageif it's a small fx unit, then all 8 pots cover the controls 1-8, however, like the fx plugs, the instrument plugs also have 'pages' on the Logic Control display window, and sadly I cant find a way to select beyond page-1... rats!
mebbe Behringer will sort it with an update or mebbe i need to plugin the BCR, or mebbe i just didnt figure it out yet, but in SX, the 'page step-up/down' works 100% fine when emulating the Mackie Control.
so seeing as Logic Control is by the same company..... damn... it should work
anyways, the speed of working is vastly improved that's for sure even without that.... mebbe time to plugin the BCR.
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
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