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Forums - Music techology
Subject: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
Original Message Date: 22-Jul-98 @ 05:14 AM - Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
O.k. If mastering is an art can some just list 4 or five fundamental processes involved.
Freefilter is cool but I want to do my own stuff my own style. Where shuould I start
I have a mix of hiphop with an artist, this mix has melodic strings and pianos plus drum and
bass and snare. I think the mix is great. Now what do I do after that. Should I get the mix
compressed or normalized first then EQ... or the other way around... should I avoid compression.. by the way. when you go get your stuff mastered by a pro will they just need
the final mixed in one wav file or cd not the individual instrument tracks????
help please
Freefilter is cool but I want to do my own stuff my own style. Where shuould I start
I have a mix of hiphop with an artist, this mix has melodic strings and pianos plus drum and
bass and snare. I think the mix is great. Now what do I do after that. Should I get the mix
compressed or normalized first then EQ... or the other way around... should I avoid compression.. by the way. when you go get your stuff mastered by a pro will they just need
the final mixed in one wav file or cd not the individual instrument tracks????
help please
Message 11/24 24-Jul-98 @ 08:49 PM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
Purple Haze
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I always thought that if you had more bits you would get a higher resolution in your dynamic range, i.e. less difference between 'volumes'. 12 bits would mean 4096 different 'volumes', 16 bit 65536 different 'volumes', but I think the dynamic range is the same, only the resolution differs.
But then, I might be wrong.
I've got a 12 bit roland W30, works great for all kind of drums (and 8 separate outs!), except for open hihats, but I guess that's rather because it's max sample rate is 30Khz and the open hihats seem to contain lots of high frequencies (at least, the samples I use).
Just my 2 francs...
But then, I might be wrong.
I've got a 12 bit roland W30, works great for all kind of drums (and 8 separate outs!), except for open hihats, but I guess that's rather because it's max sample rate is 30Khz and the open hihats seem to contain lots of high frequencies (at least, the samples I use).
Just my 2 francs...
Message 12/24 24-Jul-98 @ 09:14 PM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
ah... i see...... however... it all has to be dithered back down to 16 bits for cd right ?.... Bob Lentini (who I trust cos his s/w is so excellent, reckons it's a waste of time.... what say you people ??... you can see his posts if you search using the CHAT SEARCH FACILITY here.... search with the word BIT...
then look at the thread titles 16/24 bit etc....
then look at the thread titles 16/24 bit etc....
Message 13/24 24-Jul-98 @ 11:20 PM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
I dont always convert to 24 bits .
But talking bout mastering you cant leave any error chance .
There are some apps that convert to 24 bits defaultly cause thats its internal bit resolution but there are other that dont do that .
Internal processing is always greater than 16 bits ( 24 , 32 , 52 .... )
Am I right ?
But talking bout mastering you cant leave any error chance .
There are some apps that convert to 24 bits defaultly cause thats its internal bit resolution but there are other that dont do that .
Internal processing is always greater than 16 bits ( 24 , 32 , 52 .... )
Am I right ?
Message 14/24 25-Jul-98 @ 02:20 PM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
I think the whole BIT thing is just a load of garbage that manafacturers use to sell their products. Look at the Yamaha mixers, 02/R etc.. 32 bit eq, 40 bit something else, 20 bit this, 24bit that..... Like, big deal, the desks still don't sound crap.
Pick up an old cd from the late 80's and compare the sound of it to something fairly recent. To my ears the old 80's cds always sound nicer because most of them were recorded with fat analog desks, 12 bit samplers, real analog keyboards and so on. I'm talking electronic, or dance music here of course, so you don't need to telling me about guitar recording techniques.
In my mpc3000 I convert all my samples down to 8bit in Awave before loading them in. It just sounds better, and combined with an old analog desk, you can garauntee that it will sound a lot nicer than a 16bit sampler with 20bit d/a going through a digital desk. A bit noisier perhaps, but you don't notice the noise much on drums.
Pick up an old cd from the late 80's and compare the sound of it to something fairly recent. To my ears the old 80's cds always sound nicer because most of them were recorded with fat analog desks, 12 bit samplers, real analog keyboards and so on. I'm talking electronic, or dance music here of course, so you don't need to telling me about guitar recording techniques.
In my mpc3000 I convert all my samples down to 8bit in Awave before loading them in. It just sounds better, and combined with an old analog desk, you can garauntee that it will sound a lot nicer than a 16bit sampler with 20bit d/a going through a digital desk. A bit noisier perhaps, but you don't notice the noise much on drums.
Message 15/24 25-Jul-98 @ 03:45 PM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
ALL your samples???
Hey /\VE/\/E are you from Aus?
Hey /\VE/\/E are you from Aus?
Message 16/24 25-Jul-98 @ 04:06 PM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
One thing is that you like some crappy cool 12 bit drum sounds and another different thing is that you want to have the choice of high quality recording made on 16 or 24 bits .
Most 24 bit workstations use 20 bits DA/AD !
The most important thing in digital conversion is the quality of the conversor itself and the filters inside it.
You can record 12 bit sounds in a higer res system but not higer to less (in the case you are resampling yes) .
But that was about mastering and I only say that you have to be careful .
Peace
Most 24 bit workstations use 20 bits DA/AD !
The most important thing in digital conversion is the quality of the conversor itself and the filters inside it.
You can record 12 bit sounds in a higer res system but not higer to less (in the case you are resampling yes) .
But that was about mastering and I only say that you have to be careful .
Peace
Message 17/24 27-Jul-98 @ 10:05 AM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
hmm, I've never come to terms w/ the old vs. new sounds thing avene's addressing. I mean, like old Fender guitars or Prophet V's, are they actually better sounding or is it just because it's a sound we've grown accustomed to hearing over the years.
Also, music is compressed to hell when played over the radio, so maybe we're just so accustomed to hearing over-compressed music that the higher dynamic range of digital recording is unpallettable. Whereas most engineers agree that the human voice DEFINITELY sounds better on digital, maybe that's because we're accustomed to hearing the voices true-to-life.
Please address this, it's actually something I've been trying to figure out for years.
Also, music is compressed to hell when played over the radio, so maybe we're just so accustomed to hearing over-compressed music that the higher dynamic range of digital recording is unpallettable. Whereas most engineers agree that the human voice DEFINITELY sounds better on digital, maybe that's because we're accustomed to hearing the voices true-to-life.
Please address this, it's actually something I've been trying to figure out for years.
Message 18/24 27-Jul-98 @ 04:11 PM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
Galleryslave, yes, I'm from Aus. Anyway, pretty much all of my drum samples I convert. There's some stuff I just couldn't be bothered with.
Hilevelt, I don't know about you, but I always find pure analog synths, and even lower bit rate samples to be much easier to mix and more pleasant to the ears. They just sound fat no matter what you do with the eq (as long as it's an analog desk). With high quality digital sounds such as those trying to emulate analog synths, I've always found that it takes a while to actually get them to sound nice. It's just a general observation.
Hilevelt, I don't know about you, but I always find pure analog synths, and even lower bit rate samples to be much easier to mix and more pleasant to the ears. They just sound fat no matter what you do with the eq (as long as it's an analog desk). With high quality digital sounds such as those trying to emulate analog synths, I've always found that it takes a while to actually get them to sound nice. It's just a general observation.
Message 19/24 27-Jul-98 @ 10:01 PM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
I must be a weirdo because I prefer digital sound to anologue. Analogue does have it's uses though but I like the lower noise and higher dynamic range of digital. Analogue always gives me a feeling of nostalgia or age, which is good for somethings but I want to be more in the now.
Jeremy Arsenault
Jeremy Arsenault
Message 20/24 28-Jul-98 @ 12:52 AM - RE: Forget freefilter ..real mastering techniques
the 16/24 bit thing (back from the dead 
bits have to do with error....if you have a sine
wave coming in and you sample it X times a second,
with 8 bits (ex) you have 256 levels that you can
represent. chances are it's not going to be exactly
at one of those levels when you sample it, so you pick
one nearby. how close it is is your error. obviously,
with more levels (=more bits) you get closer to the
original. with less levels you get something, er,
different (go play with a DSS-1 sometime...it samples
in 12-bit, but allows you to playback as low as 6!!)
i don't know why it sounds good though. it's better
for some things than others, drums, snares, etc. have
a lot of noise in them anyway (error = noise) so you're
just adding some randomness i guess, it's just another
effect that sounds good on some things.
the internal bit rate is something similar...if you are
looking for good quality it's important. when you add
two 16-bit numbers together you get 17 bits -> throw away
the low bit to get 16 bits again. so it's like adding
together two 15-bit numbers more or less. add like
16 channels together, you're down to 12 bits, etc.
and multiply 16 x 16 = 32 bits..you are throwing away
16 bits!! or something like that. that's why (ex)
protools is 56 bits internally (24x24 (one 24-bit
multiply, like for reverb or something) = 48 bits,
256 channels of 48 bits = 56 bits (256 = 2 ^ 8 so
you lose 8 bits).
anyway this is way techie and doesn't really matter,
techno has a lo-fi history so maybe that's why it
sounds so good?
bits have to do with error....if you have a sine
wave coming in and you sample it X times a second,
with 8 bits (ex) you have 256 levels that you can
represent. chances are it's not going to be exactly
at one of those levels when you sample it, so you pick
one nearby. how close it is is your error. obviously,
with more levels (=more bits) you get closer to the
original. with less levels you get something, er,
different (go play with a DSS-1 sometime...it samples
in 12-bit, but allows you to playback as low as 6!!)
i don't know why it sounds good though. it's better
for some things than others, drums, snares, etc. have
a lot of noise in them anyway (error = noise) so you're
just adding some randomness i guess, it's just another
effect that sounds good on some things.
the internal bit rate is something similar...if you are
looking for good quality it's important. when you add
two 16-bit numbers together you get 17 bits -> throw away
the low bit to get 16 bits again. so it's like adding
together two 15-bit numbers more or less. add like
16 channels together, you're down to 12 bits, etc.
and multiply 16 x 16 = 32 bits..you are throwing away
16 bits!! or something like that. that's why (ex)
protools is 56 bits internally (24x24 (one 24-bit
multiply, like for reverb or something) = 48 bits,
256 channels of 48 bits = 56 bits (256 = 2 ^ 8 so
you lose 8 bits).
anyway this is way techie and doesn't really matter,
techno has a lo-fi history so maybe that's why it
sounds so good?
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