 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Music techology
Subject: swing and groove secrets
Original Message Date: 28-Jan-04 @ 05:13 PM - swing and groove secrets
A question on swing and groove if anyones prepared to give up their secrets. You'll get good karma, I promise. How do you people go about injecting some groove in your club tracks. I've been using swing B in Logic and it works OK but I'm not entirely sure how to use swing properly. If I decide to move the 2 and 4 16th notes later by 21 ticks (swing B), then should I make sure that I use this swing setting on everything including all the drums and the bass and all the music?
I was reading that classic hip hop tracks keep the drums strictly quantised but swing the bass whereas classic funk tracks swing the drums but have a strictly quantised bass. I'm making (trying) underground house tracks and I reckon having everything strictly quantised is the best groove but this can't be right cos when I cut up all my favourite tracks (of CD, not vinyl), they seem to have some of their snares, percussion, etc that fall on the 2nd and 4th 16th notes (from what I can make out) on 21 and 41 ticks but when I attempt to do it, its sound sloppy and not tight.
Maybe I'm over analysing but surely groove can't just be about velocity and compression? How do you guys swing your tracks, have everything on the same swing setting or maybe slightly swing the main drums by say 6 ticks and swing the hats and shakers by 21 ticks? Do you think that’s the best way of looking at it?
I'm using my ears, I promise!!!
I was reading that classic hip hop tracks keep the drums strictly quantised but swing the bass whereas classic funk tracks swing the drums but have a strictly quantised bass. I'm making (trying) underground house tracks and I reckon having everything strictly quantised is the best groove but this can't be right cos when I cut up all my favourite tracks (of CD, not vinyl), they seem to have some of their snares, percussion, etc that fall on the 2nd and 4th 16th notes (from what I can make out) on 21 and 41 ticks but when I attempt to do it, its sound sloppy and not tight.
Maybe I'm over analysing but surely groove can't just be about velocity and compression? How do you guys swing your tracks, have everything on the same swing setting or maybe slightly swing the main drums by say 6 ticks and swing the hats and shakers by 21 ticks? Do you think that’s the best way of looking at it?
I'm using my ears, I promise!!!
Message 11/80 05-Feb-04 @ 09:54 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets
well, without firing up logic to check, try what smart-ass says above... 41 ticks... (I assume that's at a base of 192 = 48 p/q/n)
I could check for you later
I could check for you later
Message 12/80 05-Feb-04 @ 10:52 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets
cheers k...two things though first i thought the above example was the b swing.....and secondly the 41 ticks didn't make sense to me because say on the 3rd hit of the beat...the one that would fall on the tick 72 i cant shift that 41 ticks either way without it encroaching on another hit of the beat....
ah-ha, i realise that the mpc is 96ppqn so basically i want to use a shift either way of 21.5 (arrggghh!) ticks.......but still i shift the hit on 72 back 21 ticks it will land on 51 which is only 3 ticks off of the 2 hit of the beat.....i think ive confused my self here....
if its not too much trouble to fire up logic that would be cool....i guess im stuck in a world of 96 ppqn which is why all this 41 ticks seemed extreme to say the least!
greg
ah-ha, i realise that the mpc is 96ppqn so basically i want to use a shift either way of 21.5 (arrggghh!) ticks.......but still i shift the hit on 72 back 21 ticks it will land on 51 which is only 3 ticks off of the 2 hit of the beat.....i think ive confused my self here....
if its not too much trouble to fire up logic that would be cool....i guess im stuck in a world of 96 ppqn which is why all this 41 ticks seemed extreme to say the least!
greg
Message 13/80 05-Feb-04 @ 12:10 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets
I think he meant how one quarter note is positioned - with a hardware unit, just shift the note around till it sounds right I guess. and dont forget to use copious amounts of velocity adjustment on notes to get the groove right.
Message 15/80 05-Feb-04 @ 12:35 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets
Yea, even JP Soul (who logs in here sometimes) and is signed to Roam Recordings and has had 2 Tunes of the month in both Jokey Slut and Muzik Mag has said on DT that he uses Swing C in Logic (41 ticks).
Message 16/80 05-Feb-04 @ 01:28 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets
yeah yeah yeah im down with the swing and house programming on my mpc and yes velocity is as important as note placement...definitly!!
all i wanted to know is if you put a 16th hihat pattern in logic- quatized it to swing c and then analysed the note placement where would the quarter notes fall?
maybe i should just buy logic do just that and then return it....hehehe
im guess the back beat will be on the money so all '0' and '48' will stay as is but its the off-beat notes i wanna know about....
ive often found that swing will help get that groove but you still need to get your hands dirty with velocity and note length....i just wanna know where these note fall so i can play around further......
greg
all i wanted to know is if you put a 16th hihat pattern in logic- quatized it to swing c and then analysed the note placement where would the quarter notes fall?
maybe i should just buy logic do just that and then return it....hehehe
im guess the back beat will be on the money so all '0' and '48' will stay as is but its the off-beat notes i wanna know about....
ive often found that swing will help get that groove but you still need to get your hands dirty with velocity and note length....i just wanna know where these note fall so i can play around further......
greg
Message 17/80 05-Feb-04 @ 02:11 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets
Well the 1/4 notes wouldn't fall anywhere but exactly on the 1/4 note cos a swing c moves the 2nd and 4th 16th later by 41 ticks. 240 ticks make up one 16th note in logic so your saying that an mpc has 96 ticks per 16th note or 96 ticks per 1/4 note?
Message 18/80 05-Feb-04 @ 02:16 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets
soz in the process of confusing myself ive confused everyone else..
the mpc has 96 ppqn to the 1/4 note.....
therefore if i wanted to shift a 16th note 41 ticks it would then encroach on the 16th notes....
moving a 16th note that falls on .72 41 ticks either way it will either be in the next beat or at .51 which is three ticks after .48 where a 1/8 note would usually fall....
now i may have confused the issue further (damn i need to learn the right vocab)....
greg
of course it would be typical if after all this palaver that i analyse the placements in my mpc and realise the notes fall in the same place as the swing setting i always use.....
the mpc has 96 ppqn to the 1/4 note.....
therefore if i wanted to shift a 16th note 41 ticks it would then encroach on the 16th notes....
moving a 16th note that falls on .72 41 ticks either way it will either be in the next beat or at .51 which is three ticks after .48 where a 1/8 note would usually fall....
now i may have confused the issue further (damn i need to learn the right vocab)....
greg
of course it would be typical if after all this palaver that i analyse the placements in my mpc and realise the notes fall in the same place as the swing setting i always use.....
Message 19/80 05-Feb-04 @ 02:38 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets
Well there is 960 ticks to a 1/4 note in Logic, 480 ticks to an 1/8, 240 ticks to a 1/16 note, 120 ticks to a 32nd note and 60 ticks to a 1/128. Sounds like it’s the same within an MPC but you've just lost the extra 0 as MPC's deal in 10's rather than 100's if that makes sense. I reckon 4 ticks in your MPC represents 40 (41) ticks in Logic. So in your MPC, 1 tick is the equal to 10 ticks in Logic. So a Logic swing B setting in Logic is 21 ticks which will be 2 ticks in your MPC. Swing C is 41 ticks which is 4 ticks later in your MPC.
Message 20/80 05-Feb-04 @ 02:43 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets
jory you star!!! thanks for turning a rather confusing issue into plain english- it never occured to me that logics resolution was so high, thinking the res levelled at the standard yammy spec which is 498 or something- anyhoo i digress
the one i use for that real slip-slidy feel is 62% which is 5 later and earlier......but now i know.....cheers mate!
greg
the one i use for that real slip-slidy feel is 62% which is 5 later and earlier......but now i know.....cheers mate!
greg
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 ... 8
There are 80 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
