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Subject: making tracks uniform volume

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Original Message 1/22 27-Aug-03 @ 11:18 AM - making tracks uniform volume

dubmunkey

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i have around 8 old tracks id like to put on a cd for mates, there all recorded at very different times and as a result (and due to me getting better at recording with each track) the volumes of each are quite different- and the first burn i did had me reaching for the volume dial between each choon...

so was wondering the best way of getting these to a more uniform volume....

would something like the RMS detector on Sound forges Normalizer be good for this- if i set up a default template, ive heard many fors and againsts for normalizing...what else could i perhaps use? ive found using compresssion often resulted in songs that looked liked square waves and wasn't good for keeping volume in check between tracks...

so what would you lot do? there all finalised (ie i don't have the constiuent parts anymore) so it really is a question of treating the 8 tracks as a whole....am a bit stuck....

cheers

greg

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Message 2/22 27-Aug-03 @ 02:00 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

R.A.T.

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Normalisation should do the trick, just set them all at the same level.

You might want to give them all a litte of the same EQ and compression to make them sit together on the CD but its not essential.

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Message 3/22 27-Aug-03 @ 05:51 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

queasy00

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doesn't normalization just boost the volume throughout uniformly?

if you're track has one really loud spot while the rest is really quiet, normalization might not do the trick.

you might have to compress that really loud spot a bit and expand the rest... try sound forge's 2:1 compression preset as a starting point and then lower it from there.

-j

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Message 4/22 27-Aug-03 @ 07:45 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

Influx

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normalization aint gonna do it.

and fuck me if I have advice for ya..cuz Ive never done this!

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Message 5/22 27-Aug-03 @ 10:28 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

R.A.T.

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Still.... its better than volume adjustments between tracks.

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Message 6/22 28-Aug-03 @ 04:24 AM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

Influx

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maybe a little tho, but it still only is relative within each track

the idea is to get each track uniform...so you have to master them in relation to each other sorts

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Message 7/22 28-Aug-03 @ 07:10 AM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

psylichon

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what i would do (and this is me, here)... I would load all the songs into a DAW on separate parallel tracks so if you hit play it will sound like one big mess.

Put your best EQ and limiter on each channel (I use Waves REQ and L2). Pick your best sounding, relatively loudest track and work from there. Mute and unmute the other tracks one at a time, adjusting their EQ and limiter settings until they match (it probably won't be exact if your mixes vary widely in quality, but you can get close enough). Having the tracks in parallel in a multitrack DAW environment will fascilitate A/Bing. Then just export each one and burn it.

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Message 8/22 28-Aug-03 @ 07:12 AM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

psylichon

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oh yeah, for extra geek points, you can do what i do and assign MIDI controllers to your track mute buttons. I assign note ons so I can play chords and switch between different sets of tracks, easily A/Bing.

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Message 9/22 28-Aug-03 @ 08:53 AM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

dubmunkey

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all excellent ideas, i take your point about normalization...ive been using rms detection but it hasn't done what i thought it might- plus the noise floor on one of my tracks is now horrible (but ill fix that, the rest arent so bad)

im really bad at this mastering/finalising but may try and set up a plug-in chain which i can use on each track after the volumes are settled- thinking low ratio compression and a bit of eq- but i always fall down when it comes to eq..anyhoo its all food for thought- cheers

greg

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Message 10/22 28-Aug-03 @ 10:01 AM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

Influx

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wow psy. good ideas, man. danke

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Message 11/22 28-Aug-03 @ 12:36 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

j-type

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[image file]

interesting to see how BOC did it on Music Has The Right... seems like all the tracks were brickwall-limited on separate occasions (check the flat tops), but when the album was compiled some must have been far louder than others and had to be brought down in level to make them sound consistent. see track 6 (the third big chunk), and the last few tracks.

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Message 12/22 28-Aug-03 @ 12:48 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

dubmunkey

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v interesting (especially since the one of my top five groups)

ive always thought square wave looking mixes were a big no-no, but i guess if it sounds ok.....i thik ill wack that lp on later and check out how it all flows....

greg

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Message 13/22 28-Aug-03 @ 01:01 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

beds

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square looking things like that are a result of everyone wanting their mix louder than everyone elses. if you read mastering forums they're all moaning like shite about it. no dynamics left in music see?

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Message 14/22 28-Aug-03 @ 01:22 PM Edit: 28-Aug-03 | 01:23 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

j-type

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ah but bear in mind the 'squareness' is greatly exaggerated in that album-wide view, RMS level is typically around -15dB which is not LOUD by any means... here's a closer view of Aquarius, (the 7th big chunk) which looks flat as hell on the album view but just look how low the body of the track actually is. it's actually a great-sounding album, sounds very 'open' and airy. lots of room for the music to breathe.

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Message 15/22 28-Aug-03 @ 01:36 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

dubmunkey

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i absolutley love there sound and production- sublime.....it looks like (is it snares) or whatever that big peak is is filling the range but most of the rest of the song sits behind it...

ive analysed some house tunes like this and the snares are always massive, (even though they sound well mixed)...bizarre....

theres certainly enuff dynamics in BOC stuff

greg

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Message 16/22 28-Aug-03 @ 01:38 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

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I haven't done this much, but here's a couple thoughts:

For making the volumes more uniform, I would use limiting rather than compression. You can usually gain 3-4dB this way without noticeably changing the sound. Compression will 'color' the track, which isn't necessarily bad in itself, but not at the track volume matching stage.

Getting a consistent volume for all tracks doesn't mean they should all have same RMS volume, eg. a beatless track would sound louder than a track with beats if their RMS dB were matched.

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Message 17/22 28-Aug-03 @ 03:24 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

dubmunkey

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well youve worked out where im going wrong- ill experiment with peak matching...

greg

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Message 18/22 29-Aug-03 @ 01:41 AM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

Defector z

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Sounds to me like you are ready for some mastering!!! Good job mate - lots of folks never get to where you are at. Congrats!

My advice is send it to a mastering place. They'll even shit out to make not only the volume uniform, but also the tone uniform. They'll make those little adjustments that will make the whole thing sound smooth. I've had Mindspawn master both of my albums and he's done a bang up job. 8 tracks won't cost you a ton, but when you are done, throw a label on it and call it an album. That's what I do. :-)

Anyhow - you ought to consider someone else to do it - they have fresh ears. Or, you can do it yourself.

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Message 19/22 29-Aug-03 @ 09:01 AM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

dubmunkey

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good points- i don't wanna master them myself a) cos im crap and b) i believe in fresh ears and that, plus i dont actually have proper monitors....

but they are old old tunes id like to give out to mates but i don't think their worth paying to get done professionally cos id rather spend any money like that on the stuff im doing at the mo (which is better and more my style), i guess i just wanna make the cd listenable but cant warrant the �80 for what are essentially old songs...

i may ask someone who is savvy with all this to see if they can try and uniform my tracks for a smaller fee...

greg

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Message 20/22 29-Aug-03 @ 11:49 AM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

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well you can see from the image above, the main body of music is tightly controlled with other sounds allowed to have large transient attacks to give a sense of dynamics - quite drasticaly too by the look of it, those are huge peaks

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Message 21/22 29-Aug-03 @ 04:17 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

xoxos

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j-type - thanks a bunch for those jpgs. read a whole disc.. i'd never do a thing like that (all that head/processor wear.. :p ) demystifies the commercial/professional paradigm to see..

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Message 22/22 29-Aug-03 @ 10:28 PM - RE: making tracks uniform volume

j-type

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you're welcome xoxos. it's just nice to be able to take in the 'shape' of an album in one go, get an impression of the relative track lengths and gaps between them, see how that balance is achieved. quite instructive, even if it does make the CPU sweat a bit

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