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Forums - Music techology
Subject: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Viewing all 23 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3
Original Message 1/23 12-Aug-98 @ 05:07 PM - 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ Mackie Mixer
I want a Mackie Mixer. Don't know which model to buy though. I'm on a budget so I can't afford the 1604VLZ. Is 12 channels sufficient now and later down the road on the 1202 or should I opt for the 1402. Why? I new to this s@#!$. Making dance music with PC and outboard gear. Thank you.
Message 2/23 12-Aug-98 @ 07:20 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
rouge
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get the 14 channel. the 12 doesn't have faders
Message 3/23 12-Aug-98 @ 09:29 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
um, just get a behringer mx2004a eurorack.
20 possible input channels (8 mono 4 stereo, plus 2 tape in and 2 extras that can be either another stereo output or input)
mono channels have high, mid, mid-freq, and low plus lowpass to elminate mic rumble, thump, etc (pointless for electronic music for the most part, but hey ...) as well as an insert jack. stereo channels have high, high mid, low mid, and low EQ and a balance (as opposed to PAN) control.
um, two separate effects sends (sends are mono though, although returns are stereo).
very clean ... never noticed any noise from it. 60mm faders, track pretty smooth. it's a nice little deal. got mine for $349 US.
i believe this puts it in the mackie 1202 range in terms of price?
-john
20 possible input channels (8 mono 4 stereo, plus 2 tape in and 2 extras that can be either another stereo output or input)
mono channels have high, mid, mid-freq, and low plus lowpass to elminate mic rumble, thump, etc (pointless for electronic music for the most part, but hey ...) as well as an insert jack. stereo channels have high, high mid, low mid, and low EQ and a balance (as opposed to PAN) control.
um, two separate effects sends (sends are mono though, although returns are stereo).
very clean ... never noticed any noise from it. 60mm faders, track pretty smooth. it's a nice little deal. got mine for $349 US.
i believe this puts it in the mackie 1202 range in terms of price?
-john
Message 4/23 12-Aug-98 @ 11:43 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
The lowest 1202 VLZ I've seen is $329 at guitar center. Though Musician's Friend will
match the price if you mention this, and then you avoid the sales tax...
match the price if you mention this, and then you avoid the sales tax...
Message 5/23 13-Aug-98 @ 07:40 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
rouge
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yeah, the beringher, why are these so much cheaper?
brand new a 24 channel is cheaper than a 2nd hand Mackie 16 channel!
brand new a 24 channel is cheaper than a 2nd hand Mackie 16 channel!
Message 6/23 13-Aug-98 @ 10:03 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
buggo
Posts: 8
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Because (and i know blatant gear slags are frowned upon, but...) BEHRINGER SUCKS...he he...Well, I'm not sure about all of 'em, but I really like a mixer that feels solid and sounds nice and all, and while the noise factor was about the same on the mackie and the behringer, the B. just felt like shit (looser pots, faders weren't as tight, etc.) Plus I think featurewise the Mackie has more. I'm going to buy the 1404vlz when I can afford it, (one of the things I especially like about it is you can route shit to a separate bus when you mute a track; it doesn't JUST mute...) you can get a lot of flexibility out of the mackie, and as i said, my favorite thing of all about it is it's built like a fucking brick wall...
but you DO get more inputs for yer buck out of the Behringer, so you can run all your sampler's individual outs thru it, or whatever you want.
but you DO get more inputs for yer buck out of the Behringer, so you can run all your sampler's individual outs thru it, or whatever you want.
Message 7/23 14-Aug-98 @ 09:18 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
i'm getting a mixer in september. got 400ukp to spend on it (at the most, but obviously, if i can get by for cheaper i will). ideally i want:
16 or more inputs - with inserts
good-ish eq
at least 4 subgroups (with inserts)
at least 2 aux sends
that'll do. was thinking about the seck 18:8:2 - but this talk about mackies has made me consider them as well - what model should i look out for?
16 or more inputs - with inserts
good-ish eq
at least 4 subgroups (with inserts)
at least 2 aux sends
that'll do. was thinking about the seck 18:8:2 - but this talk about mackies has made me consider them as well - what model should i look out for?
Message 8/23 14-Aug-98 @ 07:57 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
rouge
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tell me, whats this VLZ thing? and what is a rotopod?
Message 9/23 14-Aug-98 @ 08:46 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
VLZ stands for "Very Low Noise" or something to that effect - basically it refers to the nice clean circtuitry in the new Mackie stuff.
the Rotopod is a device that allows you to mount the input/output strip just about any way you want on the 1604.
the Rotopod is a device that allows you to mount the input/output strip just about any way you want on the 1604.
Message 10/23 15-Aug-98 @ 02:00 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
buggo
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One thing i still don't get....what's a channel insert? The Mackie (1404) has 'em on the back panel...what do they do?
Message 11/23 15-Aug-98 @ 04:28 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
buggo...check out the PATCHBAYS ARE US section...it's all there
Message 12/23 15-Aug-98 @ 06:09 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
buggo
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ok, I see that a channel insert just runs yer channel to and FX unit and back.....why? Why not just run the output of the given synth/drum machine or whatever to the FX unit, then to the channel in? seems kind of pointless....or are they only useful if you have a patchbay? and if the channel inserts do what I think they do, what's the point of an AUX SEND/RETURN? Does it apply the effect (say, compression) to the whole mix?
and on the patchbay front, how come you use 'em? Seems like if you have a mixer with the inputs on top (Mackies from the 1202 to 1604) it should be unnecessary really, because all yer inputs are right there on top where you can plug and unplug 'em at your leisure...what gives?
(I'm still confused about channel inserts...only good with a patchbay?)
and on the patchbay front, how come you use 'em? Seems like if you have a mixer with the inputs on top (Mackies from the 1202 to 1604) it should be unnecessary really, because all yer inputs are right there on top where you can plug and unplug 'em at your leisure...what gives?
(I'm still confused about channel inserts...only good with a patchbay?)
Message 13/23 15-Aug-98 @ 03:03 PM - inserts, sends/returns, etc.
a channel insert will take the entire signal coming into a given channel and send it out somewhere (e.g. to an effect) and then return it to the mixer at that channel (given the right cable of course). one advantage to this is to keep cable swapping down. if in one mix i got a snare that needs compressing, but in another a vocal, all i need to do is change which channel i've placed the insert on that goes to the compressor. typically stuff that you want to affect the entire signal (like EQ or Compressors) go on an insert. and no, they're not only useful with a patchbay - i have yet to own one, but use inserts all the time. there's other things you can do with inserts, but primarily it's for "in-line" processing. and one other thing, insert processing is PRE-fader.
AUX sends route a portion of the signal elsewhere (i.e. they don't interrupt the signal path, just steal some of it, or make a copy of it - with a level control to determine how much). usually this is out to an effects processor, though you could also send to say a headphone distributor amp, or another mixer. returns are typically used to receive the processed signal. you then have a level control to determine how much of that effected signal you want in the main mix.
notice the difference: an insert effects the signal before it gets to the main mix, so you have nothing of the original signal at this point. aux send/return effects a copy of the signal, so you have both the original signal and the effected signal to work with in the mix.
there's lots of flexibility in what you can do with a good mixer. e.g. when i ran out of inputs, but wanted to listen to output from a soundcard or tape i just hooked it up to a stereo return. on my 1604, i even have the ability to send one of those returns to a sub-mix, so if i have samples on a cassette tape i can route to a pair of sub outs that are connected to the inputs on my sampler (without getting back there and swapping a bunch of cables).
it's funny how usually people are screaming about this synth or that when talking kit, but the core of any studio is the mixer. most people take it for granted, but it's the best tool you own.
AUX sends route a portion of the signal elsewhere (i.e. they don't interrupt the signal path, just steal some of it, or make a copy of it - with a level control to determine how much). usually this is out to an effects processor, though you could also send to say a headphone distributor amp, or another mixer. returns are typically used to receive the processed signal. you then have a level control to determine how much of that effected signal you want in the main mix.
notice the difference: an insert effects the signal before it gets to the main mix, so you have nothing of the original signal at this point. aux send/return effects a copy of the signal, so you have both the original signal and the effected signal to work with in the mix.
there's lots of flexibility in what you can do with a good mixer. e.g. when i ran out of inputs, but wanted to listen to output from a soundcard or tape i just hooked it up to a stereo return. on my 1604, i even have the ability to send one of those returns to a sub-mix, so if i have samples on a cassette tape i can route to a pair of sub outs that are connected to the inputs on my sampler (without getting back there and swapping a bunch of cables).
it's funny how usually people are screaming about this synth or that when talking kit, but the core of any studio is the mixer. most people take it for granted, but it's the best tool you own.
Message 14/23 16-Aug-98 @ 09:48 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Whats it worth paying for a 2nd hand Mackie 1604 (non-VLZ but with rotopod)in UK?????
Message 15/23 17-Aug-98 @ 02:35 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Mackies are made in Oregon, USA. Behringers are manufactured in some SouthEast Asian country by workers putting in 12 hours a day for $2. Thus, the price difference
Message 16/23 17-Aug-98 @ 07:02 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Plus the mackie's just feel so SOLID! know what I mean?
the faders are nice and solid esp. No comparision to the
others...
the faders are nice and solid esp. No comparision to the
others...
Message 17/23 17-Aug-98 @ 09:52 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
like skul says..... compression, eq and gating etc is needing to effect the whole programme sound on the channnel... compression is no use if 'added' to an original sound, cos the original uncompressed version still is...er... uncompressed... so doesnt get effected... again with gates... the whole signal has to pass thru the processor to keep it shut out when the gate is closed.... other fx like delay, chorus, reverb etc are called 'Additive' FX processing by some people, cos you 'add' some reverb or whatever to the original signal... to get a depth.... patchbays give you great speed and versatility.... but as he says are not 100% neccessary to do these fx... you can do 'em just as well with some made up leads...
Message 18/23 17-Aug-98 @ 07:34 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
i dunno. the behringer has an aux routings that can be routed to when a channel is set to mute. i played with both the 1404vlz and the behringer, and personally i still can't justify the price difference. the features are very similar, and the behringer is like $100 less at least. i mean, for the price of the 1202vlz, you get a mixer with far more features, channels, etc. ...
i dunno, just defending my investment.
and to whatever fuckup said something about the mixer being made in some southeast asian country for $2/hour ... don't start with racially motivated comments. just because it's made in the USA doesn't guarantee anything, and just because it's made in taiwan or whatever doesn't mean anything either. as an east asian person i am seriously offended by ignorant shit like this.
i dunno, just defending my investment.
and to whatever fuckup said something about the mixer being made in some southeast asian country for $2/hour ... don't start with racially motivated comments. just because it's made in the USA doesn't guarantee anything, and just because it's made in taiwan or whatever doesn't mean anything either. as an east asian person i am seriously offended by ignorant shit like this.
Message 19/23 17-Aug-98 @ 10:12 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
John,
although the eq section in Behringer has a more radical/ european sound, a lot of people like the morerounded sound that you get with the mackie eq. The biggest difference between the behringer,andthe mackie is that the quality of manufacturing, and parts is such that the mackie holds up on the road. It's just a lot tougher than the behringer. I toured with a very good friend who used a behringer. We swapped mixers for a bit. He used my 1202vlz, and I used his mixer (can't remember the designation, but it was a 12 channel, and as big as a 1604. Sounded nice at times, but very tempermental, and fragile. It died by the end of the tour, (which only lasted three months) and he ended up buying a 1404. I still have my 1202, and swear by it. You can find one in the states for 250 or less, used. Doesn't make a difference what race of people make your mixer. The fact is that mackie's are made with a level of quality that other mixers in the price range don't have.
Regarding inserts, the are something that you use if you needed to stick a compressor onto on thing, like a mic, or a kick, but didn't want to clutter up your effects loops, because a snare, or a kick, is going to need a different type of compression than say strings, or guitars, or vox, or what have you. There are all kinds of neat things to experiment with on that one, but basically, an instrument come into the input, goes through the pre-amp, out through the insert and back in ( if you're using one), then through the loops, or eq, and to the main. Make sense? Hope this helps. As for the 1202 vs the 1404, I think that the rotary pots are more durable than the sliders. Sliders aregreat, because you can see your levels more clearly, but if you everplay in a smoky or dusty ordamp place, then the rotary pors will last better. Still,....those two extra channels, and I think that there are boosts on the line level channels as well. Either one is quite good. Good luck on the decision.
Monkey
although the eq section in Behringer has a more radical/ european sound, a lot of people like the morerounded sound that you get with the mackie eq. The biggest difference between the behringer,andthe mackie is that the quality of manufacturing, and parts is such that the mackie holds up on the road. It's just a lot tougher than the behringer. I toured with a very good friend who used a behringer. We swapped mixers for a bit. He used my 1202vlz, and I used his mixer (can't remember the designation, but it was a 12 channel, and as big as a 1604. Sounded nice at times, but very tempermental, and fragile. It died by the end of the tour, (which only lasted three months) and he ended up buying a 1404. I still have my 1202, and swear by it. You can find one in the states for 250 or less, used. Doesn't make a difference what race of people make your mixer. The fact is that mackie's are made with a level of quality that other mixers in the price range don't have.
Regarding inserts, the are something that you use if you needed to stick a compressor onto on thing, like a mic, or a kick, but didn't want to clutter up your effects loops, because a snare, or a kick, is going to need a different type of compression than say strings, or guitars, or vox, or what have you. There are all kinds of neat things to experiment with on that one, but basically, an instrument come into the input, goes through the pre-amp, out through the insert and back in ( if you're using one), then through the loops, or eq, and to the main. Make sense? Hope this helps. As for the 1202 vs the 1404, I think that the rotary pots are more durable than the sliders. Sliders aregreat, because you can see your levels more clearly, but if you everplay in a smoky or dusty ordamp place, then the rotary pors will last better. Still,....those two extra channels, and I think that there are boosts on the line level channels as well. Either one is quite good. Good luck on the decision.
Monkey
Message 20/23 18-Aug-98 @ 11:26 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
buggo
Posts: 8
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hmm....well with channel inserts, why bother? Why not just run the instrument to the FX, then into the channel?
and john, if you find the idea that people in southeast asian countries are being exploited to be a racist one, I invite you to remove your head from your ass. it's okay for nike and behringer and half the companies in the US to run sweatshops and fucking destroy people's lives in these places, but we aren't allowed to point it out? no one mentioned a quality difference because of where the mixers were made (altho it remains true that behringer sucks!!), it was merely a price difference. a big fuckin price difference. and that tells something to the informed consumer. (although obviously not to the insanely nationally proud shithead who insists upon keeping the racism bug alive and twitching in his ass at all times to dangle in front of people who dare refer to the activities of his country of origin in a less than positive light.) i've got no problem with people in southeast asian countries, or anywhere else for that matter, and none of the people here do either....christ, what there is a problem with is exploitive employers who force ungodly labor for shit wages and horrible working conditions. If you find ignoring this kind of shit is beneficial to you and calling those who bring attention to it a bunch of racist bastards, I suggest most emphatically that you are in point of fact FUCKED UP.
anyway, were we on the subject of channel inserts?
and john, if you find the idea that people in southeast asian countries are being exploited to be a racist one, I invite you to remove your head from your ass. it's okay for nike and behringer and half the companies in the US to run sweatshops and fucking destroy people's lives in these places, but we aren't allowed to point it out? no one mentioned a quality difference because of where the mixers were made (altho it remains true that behringer sucks!!), it was merely a price difference. a big fuckin price difference. and that tells something to the informed consumer. (although obviously not to the insanely nationally proud shithead who insists upon keeping the racism bug alive and twitching in his ass at all times to dangle in front of people who dare refer to the activities of his country of origin in a less than positive light.) i've got no problem with people in southeast asian countries, or anywhere else for that matter, and none of the people here do either....christ, what there is a problem with is exploitive employers who force ungodly labor for shit wages and horrible working conditions. If you find ignoring this kind of shit is beneficial to you and calling those who bring attention to it a bunch of racist bastards, I suggest most emphatically that you are in point of fact FUCKED UP.
anyway, were we on the subject of channel inserts?
Message 21/23 18-Aug-98 @ 12:08 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Now now everybody,
I thought inserts were used with patchbays so that you don't have to keep unplugging leads from your desk all the time, hence keeping the jack socket in good condition.
On the subject of low wages, I think you'll find that there is not a country in the world where you won't find a company paying extremely low wages with hard working conditions. The British social security department practically advocates this.
This is a cheery little thread don't you know.
I thought inserts were used with patchbays so that you don't have to keep unplugging leads from your desk all the time, hence keeping the jack socket in good condition.
On the subject of low wages, I think you'll find that there is not a country in the world where you won't find a company paying extremely low wages with hard working conditions. The British social security department practically advocates this.
This is a cheery little thread don't you know.
Message 22/23 18-Aug-98 @ 12:26 PM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Oh and I forgot,
GO ON BUGGO!
John, How can you brand someone a racist when you don't even know what colour skin they have or what country they come from.
They might be from South East Asia themselves and in fact feel quite strongly about underpaid / overwork conditions.
GO ON BUGGO!
John, How can you brand someone a racist when you don't even know what colour skin they have or what country they come from.
They might be from South East Asia themselves and in fact feel quite strongly about underpaid / overwork conditions.
Message 23/23 19-Aug-98 @ 08:20 AM - RE: 1202VLZ or 1402VLZ
Man! Dat buggo shure one hella fiyacracka!
John-Foul Ball, man-that was way outta line! Call you Mr. Cochran!
John-Foul Ball, man-that was way outta line! Call you Mr. Cochran!
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