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Subject: I need back-up!


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Original Message 1/27             11-Jul-98  @  06:13 PM   -   I need back-up!

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How do you go about installing an extra hard drive? I want to do hard disk recording but my UDMA disk is getting slow and full so I need another hard drive! What is the ZIP drive Plus like? Can I record onto it in real time? What is the Parallel port like - is it slow? Isn't it the one the printer uses? Will I have to disconnect my Printer every time I want to use the ZIP?



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Message 2/27             11-Jul-98  @  10:17 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

J.

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The zip and the zip+ enables you to use your printer: you hook up the zip unit to the pc, then the printer cable to the zip unit. Parallell connection is however VERY slow [para.port is usaually the printer conn.], so I'd advise you to buy an internal zip which is MUCH faster and a little less expensive. Dunno if you can record directly; I know you can stream video directly from a a jaz drive so it could work...

(the zip+ is a marginal better version than its predecessor).



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Message 3/27             12-Jul-98  @  11:23 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Hilevelt

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kinda depends on how your hd recorder is set up (dependency on hd vs. ram), but in general you shouldn't record direct to zip, even with scsi.

'ain't no one got your back, kid, you's gos'ta look out fer yer own'



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Message 4/27             13-Jul-98  @  02:27 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

skul

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SCSI is really the way to go, but it's a bit more expensive, especially if you don't already have a controller. IDE drives are dirt cheap. go to www.jncs.com for some good prices.

i wouldn't use a ZIP for anything but backup, and even then they're really fucking slow. besides, for $150 you can have a 2.5GB Western Digital IDE drive, and i've never had any problems with WD.



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Message 5/27             14-Jul-98  @  11:38 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Geek

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Yes, thats all very well but how do you install 2 hard drives into one PC? One internal/One external or Both Internal? What do you require etc.????



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Message 6/27             14-Jul-98  @  11:45 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

hififreq

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Geekster... okay, if you are going with an IDE drive you will need to do the following:

1. physically install the drive onto the motherboard (this can go directly to the interface or as a slave drive)

2. Run fdisk.exe this will create partitions and give the new drive a letter.

once it's given a letter, windows will recognize it.

and there ya go pardner... I'll fix your wagon.

what'ya doin callin yourself a geek anyways...?

late.



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Message 7/27             15-Jul-98  @  01:31 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

kilo

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...there's a few extras you need to note.........

1, install the new h/d..... now.. it may be that the cdrom is setup as the slave to the current primary ide drive.. that is... it shares the same ide flexi-cable.... if so, get a new ide cable and connect up the new drive to the second ide bus socket.. (it's next to the first one that the current drive & cdrom is attatched to on the motherboard).... make sure the pin1 on the socket is also going to pin 1 on the drive socket..... they are marked..... also...... make sure the jumpers are set on the drive to make it SINGLE DRIVE if it is alone on that cable..... if it is a UDMA drive... dont bother setting it to SPECIAL setting position, unless your cmos/bios can support udma... if your motherboard is more that a year old.. it may not.......

2. go into your system bios/cmos.... usually by hitting the delete button as the pc boots up...

as it boots up... when the first numbers are reading off after the ram test...... it'll say on screen press whatever to enter setup...... ok... once in... you see menu's usually with a blue screen..... use the arrow buttons to select ide drives setup or whatever it is called on your make of bios....once in, there is a list...

now... (presuming you HAVE got the drive set on the secondary ide bus alone)..... it'll ask you to select primary master... ignore... or skip.... next primary slave... again ignore /skip..... next secondary master... ok.. NOW...most likely you'll have a mode 2 udma drive... as they are all that is going around now....... going rate is about 130 for a 4.5 gb udma eide drive... ok....

IT IS REAL IMPORTANT TO HAVE ALL THE NUMBERS WRITTEN DOWN from the new drive casing..... or in the case of Fujitsu, (god-bless-'em)... the include it printed on paper !!!... ... ok... you need to have written down the size of the drive , cylinders, etc etc... all the figures printed on the drive casing..... now
>
4. once into secondary master section... set it ....shit i aint done this for about 3 months.... er..... there is a row of columns running across from the secondary drive title on the left....in the first and last column you can choose from: AUTO, USER & LARGE etc i cant remember if there is another..... set them to USER.... where you can fill in the figures manually.... set the cylinder number.. and the drive size.... set it to LBA in one of the columns called MODE... shit... i cant see this and reply to the thread !!..... but basically,... fill in the numbers youve taken from the drive into the corresponding columns....... when it's all filled out........ hit OK... it'll ask for secondary slave... set it to NONE.......

then select SAVE TO CMOS AND EXIT........ reboot.....

ok.... on reboot on the black screen after the ram test you should see the drive listed by make model and size and mode.. which should be mode2 i think for udma, or mode 4 otherwise......

next..... depends if you are running dos under windows... if you are .... as the pc screen says STARTING WINDOWS.... hit the F8 key...... you have to be quick... if you miss it.. wait till it is booted into windows... power down... re-boot... and be faster next time .....

ok...... once you hit F8... you get alist... choose COMMAND PROMPT ONLY........
this takes you to DOS.....

IF there is NO DOS..... go to windows... and go into the dos box from the start menu.... whatever way you get there.... once you are there..... type FDISK........ and you are into FDISK......

ok... options are..... blimey er..... OH YES... you'll be asked if you wish to choose large disk support.. choose NO... you're gonna loose some of the drive whatever.... about 100 mb max depending on the drives size.....latest windows/dos can see a max of 2gb or 1.99 gb to be precise.... there are fixes with utilities from the disk manufacturers... but they suck... and i'll be here all night... drives are so cheap who cares if you loose a lousey 100mb.. that's life..... choose NO

1. select... CHANGE CURRENT FIXED DISK DRIVE

you'll get a list... select your new drive.......which will not have a drive letter allocated yet.... just the size listed.....once selected..... you go automatically.....

2. back to first menu.... select:


CREATE DOS PARTITION OR LOGICAL DISK DRIVE

then you get offered size option..... if it's a 2 gb drive... you'll get almost the lot... if it's a 2.5 you'll get a choice of about 2 x 1.23gb... or select max size for first logical drive... you choose..... split in half is good.... or one large... and one smaller... follow it like that depending on drive size... but 1.99 will be max offered..... you have to set one new partition..... then repeat the process to create the second logical drive on the same drive..... ok... you now review all the drives by checking with selection:


CHANGE CURRENT FIXED DISK DRIVE...... you'll see all the listed drives... witth their partitions......
OK....... EXIT.....

NOW... GO TO WINDOWS.... AND THE NEW DRIVES SHOULD BE LISTED.... FORMAT THEM....... that's it.......

VARIATIONS.... some times the manufacturer will supply the pc with the h/d on primary bus as master.. and the cdrom on secondary bus as secondary master... if so... add the new drive as primary slave... make sure the jumpers on the primary master (original drive) are changed to be MASTER... although often, you dont have to change anything, as SINGLE DRIVE & MASTER is the same jumper setting... but make sure the new drive in this case is set with jumpers to position for it to be SLAVE...... then, in the cmos setup, make the settings as above but where it is the PRIMARY SLAVE DRIVE setting..... and that's it.....

often, after adding the drive and setting in cmos..... the drive is not recognised.... check all jumper settings, and the cable and er... (and i've done this loads of times!!)... make sure there is a power lead going into it !!!... heh .... if there is not a spare one dangling around inside the pc.... which i doubt there will not be..... you can get a cheap splitter... which plugs into one of the power sockets... and splits to 2 new ones...... if persistantly the drive fails to be recognised.... go into cmos... and check the settings... if all else fails... try it in AUTO mode..... although i dont recommend it.....



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Message 8/27             15-Jul-98  @  03:59 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

hififreq

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That's deeeeep KILO! I guess I didn't have the patience or time to get that detailed (or read all of your entry for that matter). That will help our boy out a lot. Keep up the dope posts KILO!!

hff



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Message 9/27             15-Jul-98  @  07:15 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Hilevelt

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hmm, never seen THAT info on this site, is it from any section?



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Message 10/27             15-Jul-98  @  06:55 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

kilo

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yup... it's from the ... "MY brain hurts" section... all on organic storage in the old skull flight-casing...... new dancvetech needs a bunch of stuff like that.... how to add a soundcard etc etc..... "how to burst into tears and fling your PC out of the window" page etc etc.... heh heh.....



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Message 11/27             15-Jul-98  @  07:40 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Hififreq

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Zat wud be cueeel! dat shud go in dee a techkneecul section eh? Ya, all the methods should pass thru you K- (not that you don't have enough to watch after) to make sure the content is legit. I think if you started to provide instructional type of shyt, more heads would be drawn to the site. I'll help out all eye can.

late...
hff



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Message 12/27             15-Jul-98  @  08:24 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Rouge

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Hey Hilifreq? What is wrong with your spelling? Were you booted out of your English lessons at skooolll?



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Message 13/27             16-Jul-98  @  12:41 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

hififreq

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Rug, you misspelled my name.



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Message 14/27             16-Jul-98  @  02:13 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Sedusa

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Jeez, haven't you kids ever built a PC before? I figured everybody who owned one at this point knew you can save hundreds of bucks if you buy components... Installing HDs is no fun, but it's one of the first things you gotta figure out... I mean, when you get that nifty new soundcard, you're not gonna take your 'puter in to get fitted!



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Message 15/27             16-Jul-98  @  04:03 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Islandman

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Hey Kilo, considering the fact that Mr. Geek doesn't even
know that you 4 IDE devices in most computers(usually one hard and CDROM at the onset) we should try to make it even easier on him:

First of all ,make copies of your autoexec.bat,config.sys and your CDROM drivers(hopefully you can install your CDROM from a floppy utility program)

Most hard drive manufacturers have a EZ-Drive type install utility in their web site. What's good about this is that it creates a separate BIOS so you won't have to deal with the regular BIOS at. You won't have to worry if your BIOS is young or old which is the biggest problem installing new drives. Plus this utility usually creates a boot up disk to install your hard drive which is pretty painless. Get yourself a copy of this first.

Next you want to go into Windows 95 and create a startup disk. Go to Start, Settings, Control Panel. Double-click Add/Remove Programs, go to the Startup Disk tab and click Create Disk. Make sure you have a floppy in the drive. If you have Win95B (or OSR2)this will give the option of using FAT32 versus FAT16. You can check to see if you have Win95B by right-clicking on My Computer and selecting Properties. you would see a line that says 4.00.950B under System: on the General tab. FAT32 allows Windows to use drives 2gig or larger as a single drive. The earlier version of Win95 limits the size of your to 2gig. You also lose some of your drive space. The reason for this is the way FAT16 clusters the drive versus FAT32.

Hypothetical Example:
FAT16 makes 16KB clusters(not sure of exact number but it is higher than FAT32. FAT32 make 8KB clusters(this is a possible number). Only one file can reside in one cluster. Say you had 100 5kb (a total of 500KB,this is an extreme case but it does happen)files in your system. In the FAT16 drive you would be using 1.6gig to store 500KB versus 800KB in FAT32. Using FAT32 (if you have it) gets you past "partitioning a drive" hell. Not fun for the novice.

Assuming you are buying a new drive, why have a crackhead driving your Ferrari?? Your new drive should be the primary master (for more reasons than I care to mention: seek time,throughput,it's newer!!)

Once you have your two boot up floppies from above, turn off your computer, disconnect all the wires connected to the back of your original drive and connect them to your new one. Like Kilo mentioned above, you might need a power splitter for your other drive and maybe another ribbon cable to make your drive the secondary. Don't connect your original drive yet! Boot up computer and follow the EZ utility instructions(at some point it might ask for the Win95 startup disk to enable FAT32 support, don't bother if you don't have Win95B). Once the utility is done start off with a fresh install of Win95 (why not, new drive!!) Install your CDROM drive first. Once Win 95 is installed you are almost there.

Most computers have 2 IDE ports (a primary and a secondary) on the motherboard. Each port can connect 2 IDE devices (a master and a slave)by way of a ribbon cable. Your original drive should have been on the primary ribbon cable(primary master). If you follow the ribbon cable it more than likely also connects to the back of your CDROM(primary slave), then your motherboard. Leave it like that! If you want to reconnect your old hard drive(I wouldn't, unless it's large) You should connect it as secondary master. Your primary(as the name implies) gets first dibs on communicating with your computer. If you were going to use your old drive as a storage unit you wouldn't need to communicate that much. Once you connect the drive, hit the delete key and go into you old BIOS(blue screen). Find the option called IDE HDD Auto Detection (or something like that). Search for primary. It should find your new drive and two bogus choices. The way to select the right one is to see which Cylinders and Heads values match what's on your drive. Skip by primary slave. At secondary master it should find your old drive. If it doesn't, you might have to switch the jumper settings on the back(a pain in the ass!!)Hope you got your old hard drive manual cause they're all different. Once you figure that out, go into Windows and start moving what your programs over. It's better to run the setup files again on the new drive instead of just moving files over in case the program dumps shit into the registry or the Windows folder. Then move whatever wave, midi (or whatever) files you need over.

I just did this major surgery 3 weeks ago and everything is just peachy. All the s/w programs you love will run in FAT32: Cakewalk,Rebirth, Hammerhead, Vaz, etc.

Good luck

P.S. I love this computer shit!!!

Islandman
alugo@ameritech.net



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Message 16/27             22-Jul-98  @  07:32 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

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What about CD writers? What do you look out for?

I want a CD-writer to make audio CD's AND for Data back-up so what shall I do?

What does this 24 speed stuff mean? What is it used for?



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Message 17/27             23-Jul-98  @  12:26 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

carles

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I use cdr for backup and it works fine for me .
Mine records at 2x but now there are 4x cheap models that will be good for backup and audiocd .
Look carefully , all the 8x recorders are NOT fully compatible .



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Message 18/27             23-Jul-98  @  12:52 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

kilo

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bloody hell Island man.... what are you rambling on about ??......... i'm bloody confused never mind the newbie who asked the question.....ez drive is shite... i would never recommend those 3rd party drive manufacturer utilities.... inevitably they just fuck everything up for one, invariably causing your drive to suddenly dissapear the next day.... regardless of that, remember the guy is a newbie who doesnt know how to add in a simple second drive even... so he's gonna be totally fucked trying to set up his cdrom without dos to load his win cd...... i think you're just gonna confuse him... cos y'sure as hell confused me !! :-)......

what you're asking him to do is in fact rebuild a new machine from scratch..... and there's to little sequential information in your description, and too many missing parts....... like... once you've connected your new drive... hit the delete key to enter set up..... this is gibberish to a newbie.... no offense, but he'll just end up with a fucked computer... i would if i followed that.... :-)



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Message 19/27             23-Jul-98  @  02:06 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Islandman

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I agree I skipped a couple of steps, but do you really think he'll be able to set up a partition the old fashioned way?? Most hard drive manufacturers make their own "EZDRIVE" type utility...would you consider that third party? Another good thing about using it is that if your BIOS chip ever dies you don't have to worry about losing your hard drive settings. I've personally never had problems with this software (Maxtor drives). Or I just could be lucky, I guess...

With the price of hard drives these days I would never use an old drive and since this guy sound like he's trying to build a whole new system, why not start from scratch? I do ramble on...I'm an incoherent fuck, I know...;)

Peace



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Message 20/27             23-Jul-98  @  08:40 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

kilo

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what ??....... the bios doent have the hard drive settings for the OS...... if your bios dies you dont lose your hd settings......... i did mean like WD ezdrive fro WD drives when i said 3rd party,,,, but i still personally don't like 'em and have seen problems before..... mate... you can take a drive from one pc... bung it in another and it'll boot up a new system......setting up a partition is less steps that using ez drive too...... still..... personally, i'd recommend he gets it fitted by someone who knows.....



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Message 21/27             23-Jul-98  @  01:19 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Islandman

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I agree....he'd probably be better off taking it to a shop and getting it done.



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Message 22/27             24-Jul-98  @  06:21 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

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How does a SCSI external hard drive or CD writer work?



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Message 23/27             26-Jul-98  @  01:01 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

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So WHAT do you LOOK for when deciding what CD writer to buy?



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Message 24/27             26-Jul-98  @  10:16 AM   -   RE: I need back-up!

faust

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Heh, wierd, I just finished putting a second drive on my comp and now I read this. Hey Geek don't
stress it's actually real easy. Never done it before and it only took about an hour to do, just followed
the directions that came with the drive, which btw are exactly what the people here are tellin ya.
And I didn't have to ask for help or nuthin 



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Message 25/27             26-Jul-98  @  12:10 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Winnie

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Can you use CD-RW (re-writeable) disks like an extra hard drive ie. putting stuff on it when you feel like it OR do you have to write it all in one go and format it again when you want to re-use it?



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Message 26/27             26-Jul-98  @  01:25 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

Freeq

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Anyone know where to get a cheap ZIP drive or CD writer in SE England?



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Message 27/27             26-Jul-98  @  02:52 PM   -   RE: I need back-up!

kilo

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you can add stuff to a cdr if you use re-writable blanks...... cheap zips are always thru big warehouse pc suppliers like Technomatic.......cd-writers... the cheapest would be at the PC fair tottenham court road on a saturday in London.... that's the cheapest i know of for se england...



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