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Forums - Music techology
Subject: something to think about
Original Message Date: 12-Feb-04 @ 11:11 AM - something to think about
Alright, you know how kids are always going "How do I make my mixes sound better?" and what not. The answer is so simple really. Just love what you do, study and practice. Think about it all day, every day for years and keep learning, keep trying new ideas all the time. First off you have to be creative enough to come up with a good idea and some people just don't have that. If you do have the ideas then you need to have the patience, knowledge (technical) and confidence to bring it all together into something that you know is good. There aren't any formulas for that. It takes time and effort, more of both than most people have or want to give. People are so quick to ask for eq frequencies and compression settings and what software to use and what synth is good for this and that. There are more than enough books and web resources that will give you general guidelines. Man... this is art and people want recipes. I understand that there is nothing wrong with asking questions, I do it more than most. But when you ask for a decade's worth of knowledge and experience in one broad question it's obvious that you need to be more self sufficient and dig for what you want. Does anyone want the journey from here to there... or is it all about achieving everything right now? I don't know why people think that electronic music is any different from drawing, writing, sculpting, etc... You don't see people on forums asking "How do I paint like Michelangelo?" but somehow... because you can click a few notes into a drum grid on a shareware program and say "Whoa I made a beat!" the idea that a finished product is right around the corner presents itself. Then people start doing stuff and in a month's time don't understand why their mixes aren't on wax yet. You can load a drum kit consisting of clean hits that are already processed to work together into a softsampler, spend a while learning to write basic patterns, then throw a sampled bassline or melody over it... and on pc speakers hear a real track. This is akin to doing a decent job on a paint by numbers project and then expecting to paint for a living. It's normal to be ambitious at first and you should be, but you have to keep things in perspective.
There is something that a lot of people forget... In dance music half of the art is in the mixing and engineering. It's not a science, it's taking theory and technique and learning it so well that it becomes transparent... and you start using that knowledge in a thoughtless, fluid way. It's the fact that you know the rules and know them well enough to break them in your own fashion. The guy that engineered the latest pop tune on the radio would probably do a rotten job at making an underground dance tune tear it up because that is not his passion. If you don't really want something it's just not gonna happen. If you do and have the knack for it, it will. It's just a natural progression. That has been the way forward since the beginning.
Nowadays it is so easy to start making music with computers... everyone wants instant gratification. There was a time when you had to commit yourself to this because you had no choice but to spend a lot of cash just to get started. Then you had to rely on your own ambition and creativity for new techniques. It seems like the attitudes have gone wrong in dance music. People used to take it as a joke because they thought it was easy to do... just computer generated, robotic beats. Now people are taking it seriously, trying to be producers and want it to be just that easy. I don't get it. Comments?
There is something that a lot of people forget... In dance music half of the art is in the mixing and engineering. It's not a science, it's taking theory and technique and learning it so well that it becomes transparent... and you start using that knowledge in a thoughtless, fluid way. It's the fact that you know the rules and know them well enough to break them in your own fashion. The guy that engineered the latest pop tune on the radio would probably do a rotten job at making an underground dance tune tear it up because that is not his passion. If you don't really want something it's just not gonna happen. If you do and have the knack for it, it will. It's just a natural progression. That has been the way forward since the beginning.
Nowadays it is so easy to start making music with computers... everyone wants instant gratification. There was a time when you had to commit yourself to this because you had no choice but to spend a lot of cash just to get started. Then you had to rely on your own ambition and creativity for new techniques. It seems like the attitudes have gone wrong in dance music. People used to take it as a joke because they thought it was easy to do... just computer generated, robotic beats. Now people are taking it seriously, trying to be producers and want it to be just that easy. I don't get it. Comments?
Message 21/29 13-Feb-04 @ 10:21 AM - RE: something to think about
heh - yeah interesting concept - a certain Sufi master always says he gets tons of really ill thought-out questions asked of him, and he reckons if you get a piece of paper and work out EXACTLY what the question is that you want to ask him, in 90% of cases you will have the answer right there in front of you!... He says people dont really define what it is they want to ask
a good example is people will ask on forums a question about their PC soundcard and omit to even list the pc spec or the soundcard make/model !!
*sigh*
Computer Music forums are the top one for that - lol!.. some of the questions are bloody ludicrous - Like driving into a garage and saying "My car isnt working properly, please fix it"
"uhu!", says the mechanic... "What exactly is wrong with it?...."
here we go again....
Perhaps it's all part of the 'Instant fix' world we live in - The way I got my kid to where he is now is this:
I started him with just a PC, cubase VST and a GM soundcard - NOTHING else... he didnt know VSTi's existed at this point - that was deliberate
after a year or more he came to me and said he really knew VST quite well, but was finding the sounds were letting him down.
THEN I added REASON, and some VSTi's and showed him how to initialise and work REWIRE
after another year I added a MIC & Pre-amp setup to get vocals down
Now he has dual screens too - next it's a proper pair of powered monitors and his setup will be complete - and nope - just cos he uses his cheap AIWA or whatever Hi-Fi unit for the monitoring doesnt mean his mixes are badly balanced cos he gradualy learned how to eq everything to sound like his CD's
Thing is, by restricting what he had at the beginning he was forced to exploit what he DID have.
I think my favourite story in this vein is the old one about the alchemist - In the old days the europeans got hold of some arabic texts which talked about alchemy and they took it literaly, not knowing it was a coded meaning for altering the inner being of a person, to transmute the person from a raw animal to a human to something higher...
anyways, this guy goes to a master who's reputed to know the secret of alchemy... he asks him to teach him how to change metal into gold - The master says "Well, you'll have to stay with me and perform various stuff & tasks I request of you, and it's not going to be easy y'know... and it'll take a long time also"
"Ok says the guy... anything you say, I just have to know how to do it!"
and off they go... Every day the guy pesters the master... "When can I learn how to turn metal into gold"
"Ah!", says the master.... "Not yet, first I want you to do such and such today"
this goes on for a few years with the guy asking every day, and the master saying; "Not today, i want you to do such and such a task now"
eventualy one day after years have passed, the master walks into the room and the student is beavering away at his desk on some task he's been set
The master says:
"Well... I'm ready to teach you how to turn metal into gold... let's do it!!"
Without looking up from his work the student replies; "Not now... I'm busy"
heh - lol!!
a good example is people will ask on forums a question about their PC soundcard and omit to even list the pc spec or the soundcard make/model !!
*sigh*
Computer Music forums are the top one for that - lol!.. some of the questions are bloody ludicrous - Like driving into a garage and saying "My car isnt working properly, please fix it"
"uhu!", says the mechanic... "What exactly is wrong with it?...."
here we go again....
Perhaps it's all part of the 'Instant fix' world we live in - The way I got my kid to where he is now is this:
I started him with just a PC, cubase VST and a GM soundcard - NOTHING else... he didnt know VSTi's existed at this point - that was deliberate
after a year or more he came to me and said he really knew VST quite well, but was finding the sounds were letting him down.
THEN I added REASON, and some VSTi's and showed him how to initialise and work REWIRE
after another year I added a MIC & Pre-amp setup to get vocals down
Now he has dual screens too - next it's a proper pair of powered monitors and his setup will be complete - and nope - just cos he uses his cheap AIWA or whatever Hi-Fi unit for the monitoring doesnt mean his mixes are badly balanced cos he gradualy learned how to eq everything to sound like his CD's
Thing is, by restricting what he had at the beginning he was forced to exploit what he DID have.
I think my favourite story in this vein is the old one about the alchemist - In the old days the europeans got hold of some arabic texts which talked about alchemy and they took it literaly, not knowing it was a coded meaning for altering the inner being of a person, to transmute the person from a raw animal to a human to something higher...
anyways, this guy goes to a master who's reputed to know the secret of alchemy... he asks him to teach him how to change metal into gold - The master says "Well, you'll have to stay with me and perform various stuff & tasks I request of you, and it's not going to be easy y'know... and it'll take a long time also"
"Ok says the guy... anything you say, I just have to know how to do it!"
and off they go... Every day the guy pesters the master... "When can I learn how to turn metal into gold"
"Ah!", says the master.... "Not yet, first I want you to do such and such today"
this goes on for a few years with the guy asking every day, and the master saying; "Not today, i want you to do such and such a task now"
eventualy one day after years have passed, the master walks into the room and the student is beavering away at his desk on some task he's been set
The master says:
"Well... I'm ready to teach you how to turn metal into gold... let's do it!!"
Without looking up from his work the student replies; "Not now... I'm busy"
heh - lol!!
Message 22/29 13-Feb-04 @ 10:23 AM - RE: something to think about
like my young room-mate from tecate mexico telling me my music isn't techno and
then goes in his room and it's boom boom
ooohhh babay baby...whatchya got?!?!?!.
good quote from your jazz-head psy.
i often feel much of my best music was done in pure isolation and that my stuff went downhill when i was in a more social-setting.
then again some of my best was done in full view of others.
sometimes that setting will actually force you to embrace the best which is within you
in hopes of a softer fall. at other times...the worst.
we are channels and as cahnnels we ARE part of the cosmos.....it would be silly to suggest we are not, ourselves, a part of the universe which, too, occasionally requires hearing. i think a human can speak for a star when a star is too distant to be heard.
and so yeah....spang's question is a valid one.
i still try to believe in all things.
then goes in his room and it's boom boom
ooohhh babay baby...whatchya got?!?!?!.
good quote from your jazz-head psy.
i often feel much of my best music was done in pure isolation and that my stuff went downhill when i was in a more social-setting.
then again some of my best was done in full view of others.
sometimes that setting will actually force you to embrace the best which is within you
in hopes of a softer fall. at other times...the worst.
we are channels and as cahnnels we ARE part of the cosmos.....it would be silly to suggest we are not, ourselves, a part of the universe which, too, occasionally requires hearing. i think a human can speak for a star when a star is too distant to be heard.
and so yeah....spang's question is a valid one.
i still try to believe in all things.
Message 23/29 13-Feb-04 @ 10:55 AM - RE: something to think about
a truly great thing about being a successful emuso is that your not tied to the whole corporate fame-machine as hip-hop/rock/pop artists are....and its great that you can make music have people hear and like it but you can remain relativly unknow to the wider public...i wouldn't know even a quarter of the emusos i like- in fact often joke to myself that when im walking round london i probably pass a couple of artists i really like but have no clue....
i mean would anybody recognise daft punk if they passed you in the street? i dont think ive ever seen under the masks....
that would be sooo cool to have some shit hot music out there but be able to go down the supermarket or pub as normal....that too me is another important difference....
greg
i mean would anybody recognise daft punk if they passed you in the street? i dont think ive ever seen under the masks....
that would be sooo cool to have some shit hot music out there but be able to go down the supermarket or pub as normal....that too me is another important difference....
greg
Message 24/29 13-Feb-04 @ 02:45 PM - RE: something to think about
On the subject of "electonic music is not real" I have actually got into physical fights with ppl saying that techno or whatever isnīt "real" music. That pisses me of bigtime!!
I make my music with all the love and care I can possibly master, and so, these ppl saying electronic music is all kidīs stuff really breaks my heart.
sad.
I make my music with all the love and care I can possibly master, and so, these ppl saying electronic music is all kidīs stuff really breaks my heart.
sad.
Message 25/29 13-Feb-04 @ 02:47 PM - RE: something to think about
i guess what i was intimating (and spang, scuse the absolutes, i just talk like that, on fwiw basis 
is that capitalism dictates that the value of a creation is based on it's value to others, ie. the non-creator (not going to argue about where is and where isn't capitalism, it's a maxim) which is why most of the time monkeys work with a vague construct of 'pleasurable to masses' instead of concrete knowledge of self.
k's 'instant fix' factor is the same way.. in capitalism, everythnig is instantly available for a fee, and guess what.. you're entitled to it.. you deserve it, why it would be a *crime* if you didn't get what you want instantly :p
that's how it works. land needs to be un-owned, people need license to earn for themselves.
when we all work for ourselves, then we will reap the true benefit of working together, w/o ripping each other off in the process.
is that capitalism dictates that the value of a creation is based on it's value to others, ie. the non-creator (not going to argue about where is and where isn't capitalism, it's a maxim) which is why most of the time monkeys work with a vague construct of 'pleasurable to masses' instead of concrete knowledge of self.k's 'instant fix' factor is the same way.. in capitalism, everythnig is instantly available for a fee, and guess what.. you're entitled to it.. you deserve it, why it would be a *crime* if you didn't get what you want instantly :p
that's how it works. land needs to be un-owned, people need license to earn for themselves.
when we all work for ourselves, then we will reap the true benefit of working together, w/o ripping each other off in the process.
Message 26/29 13-Feb-04 @ 03:53 PM - RE: something to think about
it's always fun to realize someone else was inspired to hammer away a lengthy post at the same time i was doing so.
i have a few thoughts still on this matter/matters as per ownership of music and who we are as channels> or even at some point genuine co-creators of a tiny part of that source-code which comprises art & music.
for now.... it'lll suffice to say that i agree with x when it comes to what i call
"measuring a man by the size of his wallet".
or a song by the amount of copies it sold.
it's nice when a work can somehow please or uplift a great number of people but
it's wrong when one's basic purpose for doing the work is simply to do so on an empirical level....one which pretends to be measurable.
affectations of the soul are simply not quantifiable.
i have a few thoughts still on this matter/matters as per ownership of music and who we are as channels> or even at some point genuine co-creators of a tiny part of that source-code which comprises art & music.
for now.... it'lll suffice to say that i agree with x when it comes to what i call
"measuring a man by the size of his wallet".
or a song by the amount of copies it sold.
it's nice when a work can somehow please or uplift a great number of people but
it's wrong when one's basic purpose for doing the work is simply to do so on an empirical level....one which pretends to be measurable.
affectations of the soul are simply not quantifiable.
Message 27/29 13-Feb-04 @ 03:59 PM - RE: something to think about
fights? ha ha ha...im constantly arguing with people about this...especially those who are like 'oh i hate commercial music' (dud all music is commercial!)
what ive found with many of the 'real' music fans is that they have a very limited taste in musical genres...
i love all kinds of music...i often find the ones slaggin' e-music often only like metal, or some guitar based style and like nothing else....of course as soon as i find this out i remind myself not to pay attantion to anything they say..but it seems to be happening all too often....
greg
what ive found with many of the 'real' music fans is that they have a very limited taste in musical genres...
i love all kinds of music...i often find the ones slaggin' e-music often only like metal, or some guitar based style and like nothing else....of course as soon as i find this out i remind myself not to pay attantion to anything they say..but it seems to be happening all too often....
greg
Message 28/29 13-Feb-04 @ 04:02 PM - RE: something to think about
I have no problem admitting I like a few Daniel Beddingfield tracks.
Message 29/29 13-Feb-04 @ 07:54 PM - RE: something to think about
yes Manthra, it is VERY sad... but the best bit is, when THEY try to do it... that's ALWAYS good for a laugh 
___________________________________
I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!
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