 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Music techology
Subject: beginner advice
Viewing all 30 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3
Original Message 1/30 24-Aug-03 @ 06:36 PM - beginner advice
Hi, I would very appreciate it if musicians here could give me advice to start making electronic music (the technical). What gear do they use? what will i be needing?
How is this list (will it work):
-nord lead 1 synthesiser
-computer with logic Audio
-mackie 1202 mixer
-alesis monitor 1
if people here could give advice on what i should start out with it would help
Thank you
How is this list (will it work):
-nord lead 1 synthesiser
-computer with logic Audio
-mackie 1202 mixer
-alesis monitor 1
if people here could give advice on what i should start out with it would help
Thank you
Message 2/30 24-Aug-03 @ 06:49 PM - RE: beginner advice
Beginner advice is learn music first not the gear.
Then next I would start with software first then mosey my way to hardware. But don't get the NL1 if you're stubbern. Get a nova or something with full effects on each part.
Then next I would start with software first then mosey my way to hardware. But don't get the NL1 if you're stubbern. Get a nova or something with full effects on each part.
Message 3/30 24-Aug-03 @ 06:52 PM - RE: beginner advice
Here is my advice...
before you go and spend alot of money on equipment, buy a piece of software that does everything.. (I recommend either Orion Pro ($99)or Reason $299) they incorporate everything that you need to make electronic music for one small price. Play with it, learn and get an idea of what genre you wnat, and keep going to Music stores, play with the equipment and see what sounds you like and what you dont. Also, everyone here will recommend you to purchase a sampler (software or hardware).
before you go and spend alot of money on equipment, buy a piece of software that does everything.. (I recommend either Orion Pro ($99)or Reason $299) they incorporate everything that you need to make electronic music for one small price. Play with it, learn and get an idea of what genre you wnat, and keep going to Music stores, play with the equipment and see what sounds you like and what you dont. Also, everyone here will recommend you to purchase a sampler (software or hardware).
Message 5/30 24-Aug-03 @ 07:26 PM - RE: beginner advice
Hey... I dont worry about spelling... that is why there is the Wonderfll F7 key in all Microsoft products 
Message 6/30 24-Aug-03 @ 07:30 PM - RE: beginner advice
One more thing.
You can download Demo's for either program
Reason:
ftp://ftp.propellerheads.se/pub/dist/win/InstallReason25Demo.zip
Orion Pro
http://www.synapse-audio.com/demo.php?id=1200
I have Orion and like it allot. The one thing that Reason has is allot of samples and lots of intergration with its other couterpart software. If you have the cash go for Reason....
You can download Demo's for either program
Reason:
ftp://ftp.propellerheads.se/pub/dist/win/InstallReason25Demo.zip
Orion Pro
http://www.synapse-audio.com/demo.php?id=1200
I have Orion and like it allot. The one thing that Reason has is allot of samples and lots of intergration with its other couterpart software. If you have the cash go for Reason....
Message 7/30 24-Aug-03 @ 09:06 PM - RE: beginner advice
The Answer
Posts:
Link?: No link
File?: No file
NO, no no, go for Orion, the Platinum version, it's easier to use than Reason, especially for a beginner, and it sounds better. And you can use vsti's in it, you can't in Reason.
Message 8/30 25-Aug-03 @ 12:26 AM - RE: beginner advice
don't let these fools trick you into wandering the way of s/w- knobs is half the fun ;) ... erm, yeah- if you do take their advise, don't forget a MIDI-controller box.
Message 9/30 25-Aug-03 @ 02:25 AM Edit: 25-Aug-03 | 02:45 AM - RE: beginner advice
1) Go online and purchase The Audio Pro Home Recording Course:
http://shop.artistpro.com/acb1/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=1204&DID=6
Read it, listen to the examples on the CDs, then come back with more questions.
2) The next step will be to go online again (gotta love the net) and learn a bit of basic theory. This is just basic theory so don't be scared off, its easy to understand if you study a little bit. You don't need to approach it as if you plan on composing a symphony so relax:
http://www.murraystate.edu/qacd/cfac/music/MUS109e/intro/index.htm
3) After reading the first couple of chapters you can decide if it is a good time to purchase an inexpensive second hand hardware synth (examples: SQ80-$300, K2000-$600, JX305-$500) and set of good headphones (no need for monitors just yet) to help you understand the chapters to come. Use the following as a guide for your budget:
http://www.prepal.com/manufacturers.htm
An SQ80 is a decent example of a second hand synth that you can buy cheap and continue to use for a long time to come:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1996_articles/jul96/ensoniqsq80.html
For twice as much you can get one of the most advanced synths ever made, the K2000. For 2.5 times the price you can get the K2000VP - the last of the series as I recall. Either of these K2000 units will be something that you will be unlikely to get rid of if you continue to pursue music - you could easily spend a year learning the K2000 alone and a lifetime exploiting it:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep98/articles/kurzweil_k2000.html
A sequencer is built into the K2000's architecture so it would work well as stand alone unit while you get your feet wet.
If you aren't disciplined enough to work your way through the above steps I wouldn't waste money on expensive gear: multiple synths, plugins, computer, sequencing software, etc. There are thousands of dollars of your future income waiting to be sucked into a black hole or invested into your quality of life. Getting started in this can fall under either category. I won't even go into the lifetime of explaining to significant and not-so-significant others your obsession with music and the gear used to write and record it.
I don't mean to sound discouraging but there is a bit of old fashioned studying and work to be done in order to get the most out of the gear you're lusting after. The thing is, its fun. If you are really going to enjoy it then all the reading and listening will be as enjoyable as when you actually sit down to your first computer based DAW. If you find the preliminary stuff boring its not a good sign.
Good luck.
Message 10/30 25-Aug-03 @ 04:25 AM - RE: beginner advice
PlazIdyllic Pleazurkraft ,
Your sources are great, hell, its something I wished to have received when i deiceded to start....BUT!!!, its no the only route. Many, Many ppl have become good at making music without having to purchase a certain Synth or Reading certain books. I think Theory is a must, and the link is a great to start. But the kid can purchase Orion, and with his willingness to learn and make mistakes and with the DT crew be able to do it. Just an opinion...
P.S
My spelling and Gramar suck.... Oh well, DEAL
Your sources are great, hell, its something I wished to have received when i deiceded to start....BUT!!!, its no the only route. Many, Many ppl have become good at making music without having to purchase a certain Synth or Reading certain books. I think Theory is a must, and the link is a great to start. But the kid can purchase Orion, and with his willingness to learn and make mistakes and with the DT crew be able to do it. Just an opinion...
P.S
My spelling and Gramar suck.... Oh well, DEAL
Message 11/30 25-Aug-03 @ 05:34 AM Edit: 25-Aug-03 | 05:54 AM - RE: beginner advice
Thats cool. Part of the point I'm making is that going through a step by step process that includes a studied foundation of even the most basic concepts will help an individual determine if the subject in question is something they will actually find interesting enough to apply a level of dedication to. In this case the subject in question can become a huge financial commitment. The book set I recommended is about $150.00 and includes audio examples of the topics covered. In the world of electronic music that is a very small investment. The theory site is FREE! An inexpensive but usable synth is around $300.00 (the SQ80 also has a sequencer by the way). So, a $450.00 investment can bring a great return in regard to learning AND after a few months, if it isn't happening most of that investment can be recouped by selling the books and the synth. Also, this approach sidesteps the whole computer thing which allows more time to concentrate on learning music as opposed to learning an operating system. Again, if there is enough discipline to follow a very basic study plan of sorts then there will be enough discipline to attack software hardware compatibility issues. Crawl, then walk, then run, then fly like the wind. Or maybe flee.
All the recording books above do are give you an idea as to what things sound like when its going right (wouldn't you rather know that you won't get a feedback loop nasty enough too fry drivers and eardrums alike because you've learned how signal flow operates) or when its going wrong (all "hums" are not equal - if you've never heard a recording of 60 cycle hum how can you tell that's what the problem is). The theory stuff is about what notes on the keyboard make up a given scale and how does that scale relate to the others. All this stuff does is flatten out the learning curve when you finally lay your hands on real gear. It helps people to avoid the most common mistakes which allows them to move ahead at a quicker pace. Why spend hours, or worse- money on unshielded cables, to discover and learn about something as basic as the 60 cycle hum (or a myriad of other basic concepts that are covered in the above texts). How can any other approach be superior. Hell, you gotta read the manuals for each piece of gear you buy. All this is, its "reading the manual" that covers everything else. You do read the manuals for all your gear, right?
All the recording books above do are give you an idea as to what things sound like when its going right (wouldn't you rather know that you won't get a feedback loop nasty enough too fry drivers and eardrums alike because you've learned how signal flow operates) or when its going wrong (all "hums" are not equal - if you've never heard a recording of 60 cycle hum how can you tell that's what the problem is). The theory stuff is about what notes on the keyboard make up a given scale and how does that scale relate to the others. All this stuff does is flatten out the learning curve when you finally lay your hands on real gear. It helps people to avoid the most common mistakes which allows them to move ahead at a quicker pace. Why spend hours, or worse- money on unshielded cables, to discover and learn about something as basic as the 60 cycle hum (or a myriad of other basic concepts that are covered in the above texts). How can any other approach be superior. Hell, you gotta read the manuals for each piece of gear you buy. All this is, its "reading the manual" that covers everything else. You do read the manuals for all your gear, right?
Message 12/30 25-Aug-03 @ 05:51 AM - RE: beginner advice
I do read MOST of my manuals...other times i just play. Unfortunately, I am the type htat has to fiddle, and play before I learn
Message 13/30 25-Aug-03 @ 06:00 AM - RE: beginner advice
"MOST"
I can't even begin to respond to that.
I can't even begin to respond to that.
Message 14/30 25-Aug-03 @ 06:24 AM - RE: beginner advice
you dont ALWAYS have to RTFM to be able to get what you want out of a piece of gear now, Mick
just usually
just usually
Message 15/30 25-Aug-03 @ 02:09 PM - RE: beginner advice
Nord I is a good box to start with. Like Maarten said, sometimes the feel of the gear in your hands is a motivating factor in itself.
One caveat about Nords is that they don't have all that many voices, and they're only capable of analog synth sounds. If you want realistic sounding acoustic instruments or drums (you can program nice analog drums on the NL, but you may not want to lock yourself into that). For drums especially, I'd say that you should use a computer based sequencer that allows you to use VST instruments or DXi instruments, or at least lets you paste in your drum hits to create a drum track.
If you don't know what any of this means, start exploring the menu at the top of the site. There's so much info here you shouldn't have to go elsewhere.
-Craig
One caveat about Nords is that they don't have all that many voices, and they're only capable of analog synth sounds. If you want realistic sounding acoustic instruments or drums (you can program nice analog drums on the NL, but you may not want to lock yourself into that). For drums especially, I'd say that you should use a computer based sequencer that allows you to use VST instruments or DXi instruments, or at least lets you paste in your drum hits to create a drum track.
If you don't know what any of this means, start exploring the menu at the top of the site. There's so much info here you shouldn't have to go elsewhere.
-Craig
Message 16/30 25-Aug-03 @ 03:46 PM - RE: beginner advice
i'd say start with a s/w like Orion pro or Project5 or Reason. that's all you need to get a taste and those s/w's will all go way further than 'getting a taste' - P5 & Orion both can use VSTi's tho while Reason can't.
Message 17/30 25-Aug-03 @ 05:04 PM Edit: 25-Aug-03 | 06:12 PM - RE: beginner advice
Casiotones are pretty straightforward.
Message 18/30 25-Aug-03 @ 08:21 PM - RE: beginner advice
thanks to all-- slick, pleazurkraft, k, 99devils, etc..
i have actually played piano for a few years, so i know some theory.
plezurkraft-- i think that is a good idea (#1)-- the home recording set looks like it could be very useful, for i dont know the basics of mixing, etc yet.
about the gear/sw-- i realize it is an investment, but im serious about making music, and am not unwilling to buy the hardware. i have used a nord before and was very comfortable with its sound. they are relative cheap when bought seconhand nowdays, so i dont think its a problem.
about orion/beginner sw-- i am a little hesitant to spend a couple hundred dollars on this program, because i dont really like the idea of a 'all in one' package. i would be more comfortable with buying individual units ( one by one) and learning how to use them fully, gradually. is that a good idea?
thanks, great site
i have actually played piano for a few years, so i know some theory.
plezurkraft-- i think that is a good idea (#1)-- the home recording set looks like it could be very useful, for i dont know the basics of mixing, etc yet.
about the gear/sw-- i realize it is an investment, but im serious about making music, and am not unwilling to buy the hardware. i have used a nord before and was very comfortable with its sound. they are relative cheap when bought seconhand nowdays, so i dont think its a problem.
about orion/beginner sw-- i am a little hesitant to spend a couple hundred dollars on this program, because i dont really like the idea of a 'all in one' package. i would be more comfortable with buying individual units ( one by one) and learning how to use them fully, gradually. is that a good idea?
thanks, great site
Message 19/30 25-Aug-03 @ 09:00 PM Edit: 25-Aug-03 | 09:03 PM - RE: beginner advice
If you've played piano for a few years then you are obviously musically disiplined. Okay, you're not a complete beginner so...
Yes, the book set I believe will be key.
With that I will suggest the following:
First, a relatively fast PC. The RME website's test PC specification page seems like a solid way to go.
2) Cubase SX (the version that works).
3) Softsynths: SC1, Oddity, Mercury 1, Model E, Pro53, Absynth, z3ta, in roughly that order. Get through those and you will be ready for just about any hardware synth out there but you may find you won't need or want too many. As far as tweaking knobs go, automation will allow you to get by without a knobbly hardware synth for now.
4) Plugin processors: Waves 3.5, HyperPrism, and GRM Tools are the best and available.
5) A low latency audio interface, others here can comment better than I on that becuase I have a relatively slow computer. RME seems to get way high praise. If you can get the latency you need with a US428 audio/MIDI interface/control surface then I can't say enough good things about it.
As far as MIDI only interfaces MIDIman is pretty solid, I've got two 8x8 interfaces and I've had no problems.
6) Behringer MX602A gets you preamps and a mixer for sixty bucks.
7) Kurzweil K2000VP for all the reasons previously mentioned. At some point I would add an inexpensive knobbly synth module, a second hand Nova perhaps.
All the above a solid pices of gear that you can continue to integrate with as long as you choose to make music. After you have worked with this setup you can begin to get an idea of what you want to buy in the future.
Yes, the book set I believe will be key.
With that I will suggest the following:
First, a relatively fast PC. The RME website's test PC specification page seems like a solid way to go.
2) Cubase SX (the version that works).
3) Softsynths: SC1, Oddity, Mercury 1, Model E, Pro53, Absynth, z3ta, in roughly that order. Get through those and you will be ready for just about any hardware synth out there but you may find you won't need or want too many. As far as tweaking knobs go, automation will allow you to get by without a knobbly hardware synth for now.
4) Plugin processors: Waves 3.5, HyperPrism, and GRM Tools are the best and available.
5) A low latency audio interface, others here can comment better than I on that becuase I have a relatively slow computer. RME seems to get way high praise. If you can get the latency you need with a US428 audio/MIDI interface/control surface then I can't say enough good things about it.
As far as MIDI only interfaces MIDIman is pretty solid, I've got two 8x8 interfaces and I've had no problems.
6) Behringer MX602A gets you preamps and a mixer for sixty bucks.
7) Kurzweil K2000VP for all the reasons previously mentioned. At some point I would add an inexpensive knobbly synth module, a second hand Nova perhaps.
All the above a solid pices of gear that you can continue to integrate with as long as you choose to make music. After you have worked with this setup you can begin to get an idea of what you want to buy in the future.
Message 20/30 25-Aug-03 @ 10:19 PM - RE: beginner advice
Keep in mind that EVERY post should be an implied "IMO"
Message 21/30 25-Aug-03 @ 11:41 PM - RE: beginner advice
Hey - the all in one software packages aren't like an all in one h/w unit. Plus - the s/w these days allow you to bring other stuff in. No need to buy 1 sequencer, a couple of synths, and a couple of samplers (all software) when a perfectly good program like Orion already HAS that stuff. Plus, a simple prog like Orion will get you started quick, but won't let you down after a few months. You'll STILL be learning new stuff, making decent music, AND having fun.
That being said - h/w synths are great.
IMO. ;-)
That being said - h/w synths are great.
IMO. ;-)
Message 22/30 26-Aug-03 @ 02:20 AM - RE: beginner advice
C'mon Dave, ya killin' me. It goes without saying.
Message 23/30 26-Aug-03 @ 02:28 PM - RE: beginner advice
about orion/beginner sw-- i am a little hesitant to spend a couple hundred dollars on this program, because i dont really like the idea of a 'all in one' package. i would be more comfortable with buying individual units ( one by one) and learning how to use them fully, gradually. is that a good idea?
------------------------------------
That's the best idea. There are a lot of good arguments for software, but if you come from a musical background like me and you're used to using real instruments then I think hardware might be the way to go for you.
Another issue is if you know or reasonably expect you're going to play live you probably want hardware. PCs are making strides in stability and some people do get them working fine in live situations, but I still don't trust them (and I'm a computer programmer ).
your mileage may vary, and all have good suggestions.
-Craig
PS - the Nord Lead I is a fantastic synth and very underrated around here. Plenty of people use Novas and Virii and the more feature-rich synths, but the few of us using Nords would rather lose girlfriends than their Nord Lead I've got an NL1 and a modular myself.
------------------------------------
That's the best idea. There are a lot of good arguments for software, but if you come from a musical background like me and you're used to using real instruments then I think hardware might be the way to go for you.
Another issue is if you know or reasonably expect you're going to play live you probably want hardware. PCs are making strides in stability and some people do get them working fine in live situations, but I still don't trust them (and I'm a computer programmer
).your mileage may vary, and all have good suggestions.
-Craig
PS - the Nord Lead I is a fantastic synth and very underrated around here. Plenty of people use Novas and Virii and the more feature-rich synths, but the few of us using Nords would rather lose girlfriends than their Nord Lead
I've got an NL1 and a modular myself.
Message 24/30 26-Aug-03 @ 04:38 PM - RE: beginner advice
thanks for the many replies---
99devils-- do not many people make music with only a laptop computer? i have been checking second-hand prices for apples, and it seems one can get a very capable computer for just reasonable price. right now i do not have a computer for music, so i think this would be a wise first investment. say, 'controller/synth ' and laptop + audio sw
99devils-- do not many people make music with only a laptop computer? i have been checking second-hand prices for apples, and it seems one can get a very capable computer for just reasonable price. right now i do not have a computer for music, so i think this would be a wise first investment. say, 'controller/synth ' and laptop + audio sw
Message 25/30 26-Aug-03 @ 04:48 PM - RE: beginner advice
as much as im being put off by a primarily software studio, im realizing/convinced it may be easiest for starting
99devils-- i agree all of the way. the nord is so hands on/flexible -- its like using a carpenters tool
99devils-- i agree all of the way. the nord is so hands on/flexible -- its like using a carpenters tool
Message 26/30 26-Aug-03 @ 07:12 PM - RE: beginner advice
nord 1, logic.. you've obviously got a discerning mind.. :p perhaps logic outdated (to freeware?) unless you have a h/w studio.. the nord worth it purely for the pitch bend.
spent a lot on h/w myself, but nowadays this is basically all the kit i use (but i'm also really interested in increasing respectability of freeware, so) certainly wouldn't go further w/o mroe direction (h/w for live, et c.)
spent a lot on h/w myself, but nowadays this is basically all the kit i use (but i'm also really interested in increasing respectability of freeware, so) certainly wouldn't go further w/o mroe direction (h/w for live, et c.)
Message 27/30 27-Aug-03 @ 12:56 AM - RE: beginner advice
All s/w is a GREAT way to get started. No fussing around with cables, etc. Just music. Start slowly - it's easy to drop a crap load of money and not have a CLUE how to hook it all together.
Message 28/30 27-Aug-03 @ 06:07 PM - RE: beginner advice
I agree that software is a great way to get started. I'd be a little bit leery of laptops though. They're more expensive than desktops, and no matter how much muscle you've got, you could always use more. Plus, if you're on a Mac lappy, you're going to be limited to only firewire expansion for the most part. Even if you do have PCMCIA, that stuff is expensive.
It'll get you started, but you can sort yourself out with a decent AMD based PC setup with sound card for like $500 US if you look hard and you're willing to get your hands a bit dirty filling out a barebones system.
I just did some quick checking online, and the first site I went to has a barebones AMD Athlon XP1700 w/nForce chipset, integrated graphics, and 256 MB of RAM, already screwed into the chassis. $339 USD. Add a hard disk and more memory, say another $200 or so. Now you're really rocking, for the price of that s/h powerbook.
FYI, I'm running an XP-2000 with 512MB of memory, and it's enough for most any dance mix you're going to throw at it. I don't use virtual synths though, so your mileage will vary. Like I said, you can never have enough power
Anyways, there's my $.02
-Craig
It'll get you started, but you can sort yourself out with a decent AMD based PC setup with sound card for like $500 US if you look hard and you're willing to get your hands a bit dirty filling out a barebones system.
I just did some quick checking online, and the first site I went to has a barebones AMD Athlon XP1700 w/nForce chipset, integrated graphics, and 256 MB of RAM, already screwed into the chassis. $339 USD. Add a hard disk and more memory, say another $200 or so. Now you're really rocking, for the price of that s/h powerbook.
FYI, I'm running an XP-2000 with 512MB of memory, and it's enough for most any dance mix you're going to throw at it. I don't use virtual synths though, so your mileage will vary. Like I said, you can never have enough power
Anyways, there's my $.02
-Craig
Message 30/30 28-Aug-03 @ 07:47 AM Edit: 28-Aug-03 | 07:49 AM - RE: beginner advice
Whatever you use, just use it creatively. You could be a worldwide hit using free software you could download in an afternoon (think about it... download a free studio that will make you a star in an afternoon)... ya just gotta use it creatively. Sure your freeware synth may not sound quite as neat as that $500 Native Instruments VSTi, but no one's gonna care if your song is better than NI-dude's.
Even with modest PC hardware... you can get around limitations by planning out your song, bouncing down live synths to audio tracks to free up your processor. you can get away with very little, and if you put the time and imagination into it, it will sound every bit as good as the other guy's.
No, it will sound better, because you actually had to think about it. Everything you need to know is on google, just go read read read read.... then plaaaaaaaay
psy
Even with modest PC hardware... you can get around limitations by planning out your song, bouncing down live synths to audio tracks to free up your processor. you can get away with very little, and if you put the time and imagination into it, it will sound every bit as good as the other guy's.
No, it will sound better, because you actually had to think about it. Everything you need to know is on google, just go read read read read.... then plaaaaaaaay
psy
Viewing all 30 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3
There are 30 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
