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Forums - Music techology
Subject: Beringher
Original Message Date: 30-Aug-98 @ 04:09 PM - Beringher
Anyone know anything about the Beringher Eurodesks?
I'm thinking about getting the big MX8000 but have heard the cheaper beringher mixing desks are cheap and crackly and not very strong - is this true for the more expensive ones?
Beringher have just been sued by Mackie for imitation so there desks must be pretty good!
I'm thinking about getting the big MX8000 but have heard the cheaper beringher mixing desks are cheap and crackly and not very strong - is this true for the more expensive ones?
Beringher have just been sued by Mackie for imitation so there desks must be pretty good!
Message 21/31 05-Sep-98 @ 05:57 PM - RE: Beringher
buggo
Posts: 8
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but then again yer mixer has to be good...you can get away with cheap kit if you can get a decent mix, but there's only so far down the quality scale you can go before it starts to sound shite...like my mixer! the Ross 6-channel powered jobbie from like '75 or so...it sounds ok for a live metal band maybe, but for any kind of music with any subtlety it is way too loud.
bottom line is essentially that just about any mixer made today will do fine for yer shit, but it depends how you like to work...make sure the routings are good for your purposes, make sure it has enough aux sends, buses, or whatever, listen to it in the shop, and GET IT! (one thing tho...I've been cautioned many times to always demo a mixer with more than just a few channels, as often they run out of headroom or the noise factor increases to unberable levels...sounds reasonable to me!)
i just ordered an old mackie 1604...great board but they've dropped off significantly in price because of the new VLZ models...try and find an old 1604, 1402, 1202, or one of their older big consoles as they are very cheap now. (my 1604 was $400 plus shipping, which is less than a new 1402 and just a little more than the new 1202, and the guy was nice enough to go over all the faders with that fader-cleaning shit and get 'em all pretty and get rid of all the scratch goo in 'em...I'll be sure to send him some flowers!) hehe...
bottom line is essentially that just about any mixer made today will do fine for yer shit, but it depends how you like to work...make sure the routings are good for your purposes, make sure it has enough aux sends, buses, or whatever, listen to it in the shop, and GET IT! (one thing tho...I've been cautioned many times to always demo a mixer with more than just a few channels, as often they run out of headroom or the noise factor increases to unberable levels...sounds reasonable to me!)
i just ordered an old mackie 1604...great board but they've dropped off significantly in price because of the new VLZ models...try and find an old 1604, 1402, 1202, or one of their older big consoles as they are very cheap now. (my 1604 was $400 plus shipping, which is less than a new 1402 and just a little more than the new 1202, and the guy was nice enough to go over all the faders with that fader-cleaning shit and get 'em all pretty and get rid of all the scratch goo in 'em...I'll be sure to send him some flowers!) hehe...
Message 22/31 06-Sep-98 @ 01:06 AM - RE: Beringher
The difference between an old 1604 and a new VLZ is pretty huge. The mic pre's on the original are noisy, and since you can't switch them out it means you've got 6 useless channels if you don't use many mic's (like most of us here).
Most electronic musicians can get away w/ cheap line mixers, as things like pre's, parametric eq, and heavy routing options aren't really necessary (though nice if you've got them). In addition, line mixers tend to have rotary pots instead of faders, which are actually cool for long techno fade-in's (that's the way vestax dj mixers are often altered by house guys).
I've owned an original 1604 as well as several better boards, but now use a $200 Roland M240, w/ 24 mono channels, 4 stereo aux inputs, and 4 aux outs (1 pre/post switchable). It only has 2 mic pre's (my "distortion" channels ;) and short-throw faders, but it's extremely quiet (moreso than the mackie was) and is compact for what it is (about the size of 2 1202's).
Think about this, buggo (and anybody else who doesn't understand the concept of professional boards): real professional studios that use the 60-input ssl's are tracking for film, not the pathetically low-budget music community, which means they deal regularly w/ 30-100 piece orchestras and require high-end automation systems and excellent routing and grouping facilities. Many high-end producers are returning to using smaller boards, but even 24 channels can be limiting if there's a live drummer/percussionist.
Most electronic musicians can get away w/ cheap line mixers, as things like pre's, parametric eq, and heavy routing options aren't really necessary (though nice if you've got them). In addition, line mixers tend to have rotary pots instead of faders, which are actually cool for long techno fade-in's (that's the way vestax dj mixers are often altered by house guys).
I've owned an original 1604 as well as several better boards, but now use a $200 Roland M240, w/ 24 mono channels, 4 stereo aux inputs, and 4 aux outs (1 pre/post switchable). It only has 2 mic pre's (my "distortion" channels ;) and short-throw faders, but it's extremely quiet (moreso than the mackie was) and is compact for what it is (about the size of 2 1202's).
Think about this, buggo (and anybody else who doesn't understand the concept of professional boards): real professional studios that use the 60-input ssl's are tracking for film, not the pathetically low-budget music community, which means they deal regularly w/ 30-100 piece orchestras and require high-end automation systems and excellent routing and grouping facilities. Many high-end producers are returning to using smaller boards, but even 24 channels can be limiting if there's a live drummer/percussionist.
Message 23/31 06-Sep-98 @ 07:15 PM - RE: Beringher
so what does people think about the new price drops with the yamaha digital series, cheaper original o1's, and the new o1 job with more channels etc... plus the new lower prices on the 02d........ after all, you can control 'em from cake & vst right?...... seems an iteresting way to add in automation outboard from your sequencer..... i heard the 01 a while back in a real-world environment... unfortunately, the programme material was truly crap electric-rock sorta shite... bloody terrible it was, but.... the dynamic range was bloody impressive i have to say... stuff just leapt out of the speakers.... although i personally like hands on twiddling, could be an itersting one i think the 01's are down to about 800 in the uk now.... could mean s/h units as low as 500-600 in a while maybe?... could be an interesting addition to a standard mixer mebbe?..... and as a remix facility tool, 2 linked 01's running that IQS automation s/w they do would make a VERY cheap 32 channel automation for a studio.... just add a cheap pc to control it... any thoughts?...
Message 24/31 06-Sep-98 @ 09:14 PM - RE: Beringher
rouge
Posts: 2
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I'm gonna get the DSP 2416 soundcard thingy and then put it through a 01V. Pherhaps - just for fun. I'll have a proper 02R then (kind of).
Anyway - cheap mixing desks means cheap noise most of the time.
Anyway - cheap mixing desks means cheap noise most of the time.
Message 25/31 07-Sep-98 @ 03:05 PM - RE: Beringher
JAWA
Posts: 1
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I just use a mixer to mute stuff and get the levels right cos i never do proffessional recordings just live work and dodgy recordings for my mates to say "that sounds shite"/"that's cool".
when the time comes for me to release something....... money needed basically, then i will look to a better mixer but in the meantime i'll just settle with my cheapy behringer......
when the time comes for me to release something....... money needed basically, then i will look to a better mixer but in the meantime i'll just settle with my cheapy behringer......
Message 26/31 07-Sep-98 @ 06:53 PM - RE: Beringher
JAWA, are you saying (with actual experience) that Beringhers mixers are shite?
Which one do you use?
Whats the background noise and the gain noise like?
What I'm looking for more than anything else is a low-noise mixer and thats what they say in the ads!
Which one do you use?
Whats the background noise and the gain noise like?
What I'm looking for more than anything else is a low-noise mixer and thats what they say in the ads!
Message 27/31 08-Sep-98 @ 01:00 PM - RE: Beringher
JAWA
Posts: 1
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(sigh) read my message again mr. ramjet.......
done that? good...... my recordings are not fantastic sounding admitidly, but that is because i don't have anyother recording method than my old tape recorder that i used to load my speccy games off of..... nothing to do with the mixer..... and no its not noisy as in bzzzzz hmmmm hummmm klickkkkk fgzzzz, there is a small hum, but i think thats my amp and you can't hear when i'm playing in a club...... btw, mine's a 16 channel one....
done that? good...... my recordings are not fantastic sounding admitidly, but that is because i don't have anyother recording method than my old tape recorder that i used to load my speccy games off of..... nothing to do with the mixer..... and no its not noisy as in bzzzzz hmmmm hummmm klickkkkk fgzzzz, there is a small hum, but i think thats my amp and you can't hear when i'm playing in a club...... btw, mine's a 16 channel one....
Message 28/31 08-Sep-98 @ 04:45 PM - RE: Beringher
(oi) Yammy digital mixers are fuckin' bomb. Skip the original 01, not only is the new one exceedingly better but the 03d's have gotten insanely cheap 'cause of the 01v.
BTW, 02r's are THE INDUSTRY STANDARD for 5:1 and dvd mixing. That may not mean much to us, but knowing that the biggest studios in the world that can afford any mixers they want STILL choose Yammies says a lot for the series.
BTW, 02r's are THE INDUSTRY STANDARD for 5:1 and dvd mixing. That may not mean much to us, but knowing that the biggest studios in the world that can afford any mixers they want STILL choose Yammies says a lot for the series.
Message 29/31 09-Sep-98 @ 10:47 PM - RE: Beringher
rouge
Posts: 2
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have you seen the new (non Mackie rip-off model) 2642A (or something), it looks like a Soundcraft now! Pretty Cool!
Message 30/31 10-Sep-98 @ 02:02 PM - RE: Beringher
Ok this is basically it - there are two main makers
of semi-pro (i.e. Mackie, Behringer, Spirit etc.)
mixer components (faders and pots) in the world
Mackie use Panasonic as do Behringer. These are
the components which would be most likely to cause
noise, crackle, hum etc. There is NO REASON that
Behringer should be or are inferior to Mackie.
Even if Behringer used cheaper made PCB's than
Mackie (which they don't) it would make very little difference to the overall sound reproduction.
The things you hear about the US court case being
dropped is nothing as stupid as the Behringers
being so inferior - use your heads! if they had been
that inferior the case would never have made the
courts in the first place. They are to all intents
and purposes (i.e. with respect to the laws of physics
and mathematics) basically identical. Behringer are
having to change their designs now to avoid any further
copyright infringement, for example alot of the mixers
are changing their external design - for example the new
MX8000A and MX9000 Eurodesks. Also all old copyright
infringing stocks are being sold off cheaply (for
example some UK retailers selling original MX8000's
with Meter Bridge for only £1100)
of semi-pro (i.e. Mackie, Behringer, Spirit etc.)
mixer components (faders and pots) in the world
Mackie use Panasonic as do Behringer. These are
the components which would be most likely to cause
noise, crackle, hum etc. There is NO REASON that
Behringer should be or are inferior to Mackie.
Even if Behringer used cheaper made PCB's than
Mackie (which they don't) it would make very little difference to the overall sound reproduction.
The things you hear about the US court case being
dropped is nothing as stupid as the Behringers
being so inferior - use your heads! if they had been
that inferior the case would never have made the
courts in the first place. They are to all intents
and purposes (i.e. with respect to the laws of physics
and mathematics) basically identical. Behringer are
having to change their designs now to avoid any further
copyright infringement, for example alot of the mixers
are changing their external design - for example the new
MX8000A and MX9000 Eurodesks. Also all old copyright
infringing stocks are being sold off cheaply (for
example some UK retailers selling original MX8000's
with Meter Bridge for only £1100)
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