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Forums - Music techology
Subject: 2 years ago today
Viewing all 32 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4
Original Message 1/32 11-Sep-03 @ 01:43 PM - 2 years ago today
R-Tek Steve was ruining my breakfast talking about some disgusting thing you brits eat when I saw the first plane hit outside my office window. I was touched to find people at dancetech worried about me when I got home and online about 4 hours later. Thanks all.
Now let me eat my breakfast in peace this morning. What was that stuff anyway? Marmut something or other mixed with some kind of white gooey stuff? Yuck.
Now let me eat my breakfast in peace this morning. What was that stuff anyway? Marmut something or other mixed with some kind of white gooey stuff? Yuck.
Message 2/32 11-Sep-03 @ 01:46 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
wasn't it crisps? like scampi fries or something? or maybe cheezy wotsits?
Message 4/32 11-Sep-03 @ 02:49 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
i belive this should be in the "lounge" section
.
.
.
just kidding
.
.
.
just kidding
Message 5/32 11-Sep-03 @ 02:50 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
marmite and dripping ?
its a northern thing. a bit like cloth cap wearing, inbreeding and training whippets.
its a northern thing. a bit like cloth cap wearing, inbreeding and training whippets.
Message 7/32 11-Sep-03 @ 03:36 PM Edit: 11-Sep-03 | 05:34 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
coleslaw?
brown pudding?
--------edit----------
actually meant black pudding
brown pudding?
--------edit----------
actually meant black pudding
Message 8/32 11-Sep-03 @ 03:45 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
not the first time I've put someone off their breakfast, although usually it's because I puked in the kitchen sink the night before and didn't bother cleaning it up.
think it might've been black pudding actually - pigs guts filled with blood and gristle, tasty.
think it might've been black pudding actually - pigs guts filled with blood and gristle, tasty.
Message 9/32 11-Sep-03 @ 03:59 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
black puddings lovely. you ever tried it on pizza ??
I hoofed up a chinese takeaway into the water butt in my back garden one night. I forgot about it until a year or so later when we had a drought and I wanted to empty the water but over the lawn. Jeez, you've got no idea how much chow mein swells up when its soaked in water. I had to rake it all off my lawn coz the lawn mower could get it all up.
I hoofed up a chinese takeaway into the water butt in my back garden one night. I forgot about it until a year or so later when we had a drought and I wanted to empty the water but over the lawn. Jeez, you've got no idea how much chow mein swells up when its soaked in water. I had to rake it all off my lawn coz the lawn mower could get it all up.
Message 10/32 11-Sep-03 @ 04:07 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
I think you might be right Steve. But what the hell is marmite anyways? I've never gotten a civil answer on that one out of you.
Message 11/32 11-Sep-03 @ 04:13 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
con carne... dig it ?
A Tale of Two Septembers
By David Morris, AlterNet
September 9, 2003
September 11th marks the second anniversary of the aerial attack by terrorists that killed 2,700 people and profoundly changed American society.
September 11th also marks the anniversary, in this case the thirtieth, of the aerial attack by terrorists that led to the murder of more than 3,000 people and profoundly changed Chilean society.
American commentators probably won't mention the 1973 attacks on Chile and their aftermath. They should, because in those attacks it was the U.S. government that played the role of Al Qaeda – recruiting, training, arming, financing and coordinating the terrorists.
Our involvement in this unsavory affair is now widely recognized. As Secretary of State Colin Powell himself recently acknowledged, "It is not a part of our country's history that we are proud of."
Powell's comment implies a feeling of contrition that I doubt his colleagues in this Administration share. For the ties are remarkably intimate between those who planned the attacks on Chile's White House and those in charge of responding to the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld worked in the Nixon cabinet. And in a most telling demonstration of continuity, President Bush appointed Henry Kissinger, the central player in the overthrow of the Chilean government, to chair the Committee investigating the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. (Kissinger withdrew in the face of ferocious worldwide criticism.)
On September 4, 1970 Salvador Allende, founder of the Socialist Party and four time presidential candidate, was elected President of Chile. That Allende was duly and uncontrovertibly elected in a country with a long and rich democratic tradition, a country whose voting turnout is double that of the United States, was irrelevant to President Nixon and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. "I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go Communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people," Kissinger declared.
"Nixon was beside himself," Kissinger later wrote. CIA Director Richard Helms remembers Nixon "wanted something done and he didn't much care how."
Initially the U.S. tried to forestall Allende's taking office by financing the kidnapping of the head of the Armed Forces, General Rene Schneider. Schneider resisted and was shot on October 22, 1970 and died three days later. The CIA reportedly paid $35,000 to the assassins.
Having failed with Plan A, Nixon and Kissinger moved to Plan B. This was, according to Nixon's CIA Director Richard Helms to "make the (Chilean) economy scream".
Plan B was successful economically. By cutting off public and private aid, encouraging U.S. corporations to stop sending replacement parts to Chilean factories and fomenting strikes and sabotage in Chile, the U.S. undermined its economy.
But Plan B failed politically. Even in the face of growing economic instability Chile maintained its democratic traditions. And the percentage voting for Allende's Popular Unity coalition continued to increase, from 36 percent in September 1970 to 44 percent in April 1972.
In June 1973 parts of the Chilean Navy attempted a coup and failed. A million people marched to the President's office and demanded arms to be able to defend the government. President Allende stood on the balcony and firmly rejected their request. To the end he was a Constitutionalist.
As were several of the leaders of the Chilean military. These were arrested in the early morning of September 11th. About 8:30AM rogue military units began bombing the Chilean White House. Allende died in his office. General Augusto Pinochet, an admirer of Adolf Hitler, seized power.
Pinochet's military dictatorship killed thousands, tortured tens of thousands and drove more than a million Chileans into exile. A society with a 150 year tradition of democracy and participation suffered under totalitarian rule.
No elections were held at any level for 15 years. Women were arrested for organizing soccer clubs. As Tina Rosenberg observed in the New York Times, "Meetings of any kind were considered subversive – in the first year after the coup, even Miss Chile was appointed."
The United States rewarded Chile by dramatically increasing both grants and loans. On June 8, 1976, at the height of Pinochet's repression, Kissinger met in private with the dictator and told him, "We are sympathetic to what you are trying to do here".
Having thwarted the possibility that Chile would become a model of democratic socialism, the United States made Chile a model of dictatorial capitalism. Under the hands-on guidance of University of Chicago economists, the Chilean economy was restructured. Unions were outlawed. Real wages plunged. Social spending was slashed. Of 507 public enterprises in l973 only l5 remained in government hands by l980. Chile privatized its social security system.
The experiment failed. Unemployment soared. Malnutrition soared. In l973 Chile had the second highest income in Latin America, next to oil rich Venezuela. By 1988, when the military relinquished the reigns of government, Chile's income had fallen behind that of many countries, including Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay.
As a result of widespread protests, none of which were financed by the United States, Pinochet agreed to step down. In 1989 a new government took office and to some extent has undone the damage wrought by the Pinochet years.
Today Chilean society remains scarred by the events of 9/11/73. The military pushed through a Constitutional provision that allowed it sufficient representation in Congress to block reforms. In l99l General Pinochet declared that if Chile were to try to undertake the kinds of economic initiatives embraced by Allende, "In such circumstances it will be impossible to prevent" the military from intervening once again. Although elections now take place in Chile and political activity has revived, its dimension and vitality, once so rich, is circumscribed.
The United States also felt the effects of 9/11/73. Policymakers were shocked at the revelations of our involvement. And at the same time they learned of Nixon's increasing willingness to wield the powers of government against perceived domestic as well as foreign enemies.
Nixon resigned in August 1974. Congressional investigations of our the use of government here and abroad by the Nixon administration led it to reinforce and strengthen the prohibition on domestic surveillance by the CIA. It banned the use of assassination as a tool of foreign policy. CIA director Richard Helms was indicted and convicted of lying to Congress about US involvement in Chile.
Today the connections between the two September lls remain. While we are pursuing Saddam Hussein in order to try him for war crimes, prosecutors in four countries are pursuing Henry Kissinger to get him to testify about his role in the Chilean coup.
In the aftermath of 9/11/01 the Bush White House has reinstated many of the practices of the Nixon White House and has adopted a similar approach regarding those who oppose its policies. Nixon had an enemies list. Vice President Cheney declares, "You're either for us or against us." The policy of covert interventions in foreign countries has been revived. The CIA now is intimately involved in domestic surveillance. The White House has formally re-established the practice of political assassination.
This September 11th we should remember two anniversaries and reflect on the links between the two.
A Tale of Two Septembers
By David Morris, AlterNet
September 9, 2003
September 11th marks the second anniversary of the aerial attack by terrorists that killed 2,700 people and profoundly changed American society.
September 11th also marks the anniversary, in this case the thirtieth, of the aerial attack by terrorists that led to the murder of more than 3,000 people and profoundly changed Chilean society.
American commentators probably won't mention the 1973 attacks on Chile and their aftermath. They should, because in those attacks it was the U.S. government that played the role of Al Qaeda – recruiting, training, arming, financing and coordinating the terrorists.
Our involvement in this unsavory affair is now widely recognized. As Secretary of State Colin Powell himself recently acknowledged, "It is not a part of our country's history that we are proud of."
Powell's comment implies a feeling of contrition that I doubt his colleagues in this Administration share. For the ties are remarkably intimate between those who planned the attacks on Chile's White House and those in charge of responding to the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Vice President Dick Cheney and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld worked in the Nixon cabinet. And in a most telling demonstration of continuity, President Bush appointed Henry Kissinger, the central player in the overthrow of the Chilean government, to chair the Committee investigating the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. (Kissinger withdrew in the face of ferocious worldwide criticism.)
On September 4, 1970 Salvador Allende, founder of the Socialist Party and four time presidential candidate, was elected President of Chile. That Allende was duly and uncontrovertibly elected in a country with a long and rich democratic tradition, a country whose voting turnout is double that of the United States, was irrelevant to President Nixon and his Secretary of State Henry Kissinger. "I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go Communist due to the irresponsibility of its own people," Kissinger declared.
"Nixon was beside himself," Kissinger later wrote. CIA Director Richard Helms remembers Nixon "wanted something done and he didn't much care how."
Initially the U.S. tried to forestall Allende's taking office by financing the kidnapping of the head of the Armed Forces, General Rene Schneider. Schneider resisted and was shot on October 22, 1970 and died three days later. The CIA reportedly paid $35,000 to the assassins.
Having failed with Plan A, Nixon and Kissinger moved to Plan B. This was, according to Nixon's CIA Director Richard Helms to "make the (Chilean) economy scream".
Plan B was successful economically. By cutting off public and private aid, encouraging U.S. corporations to stop sending replacement parts to Chilean factories and fomenting strikes and sabotage in Chile, the U.S. undermined its economy.
But Plan B failed politically. Even in the face of growing economic instability Chile maintained its democratic traditions. And the percentage voting for Allende's Popular Unity coalition continued to increase, from 36 percent in September 1970 to 44 percent in April 1972.
In June 1973 parts of the Chilean Navy attempted a coup and failed. A million people marched to the President's office and demanded arms to be able to defend the government. President Allende stood on the balcony and firmly rejected their request. To the end he was a Constitutionalist.
As were several of the leaders of the Chilean military. These were arrested in the early morning of September 11th. About 8:30AM rogue military units began bombing the Chilean White House. Allende died in his office. General Augusto Pinochet, an admirer of Adolf Hitler, seized power.
Pinochet's military dictatorship killed thousands, tortured tens of thousands and drove more than a million Chileans into exile. A society with a 150 year tradition of democracy and participation suffered under totalitarian rule.
No elections were held at any level for 15 years. Women were arrested for organizing soccer clubs. As Tina Rosenberg observed in the New York Times, "Meetings of any kind were considered subversive – in the first year after the coup, even Miss Chile was appointed."
The United States rewarded Chile by dramatically increasing both grants and loans. On June 8, 1976, at the height of Pinochet's repression, Kissinger met in private with the dictator and told him, "We are sympathetic to what you are trying to do here".
Having thwarted the possibility that Chile would become a model of democratic socialism, the United States made Chile a model of dictatorial capitalism. Under the hands-on guidance of University of Chicago economists, the Chilean economy was restructured. Unions were outlawed. Real wages plunged. Social spending was slashed. Of 507 public enterprises in l973 only l5 remained in government hands by l980. Chile privatized its social security system.
The experiment failed. Unemployment soared. Malnutrition soared. In l973 Chile had the second highest income in Latin America, next to oil rich Venezuela. By 1988, when the military relinquished the reigns of government, Chile's income had fallen behind that of many countries, including Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay.
As a result of widespread protests, none of which were financed by the United States, Pinochet agreed to step down. In 1989 a new government took office and to some extent has undone the damage wrought by the Pinochet years.
Today Chilean society remains scarred by the events of 9/11/73. The military pushed through a Constitutional provision that allowed it sufficient representation in Congress to block reforms. In l99l General Pinochet declared that if Chile were to try to undertake the kinds of economic initiatives embraced by Allende, "In such circumstances it will be impossible to prevent" the military from intervening once again. Although elections now take place in Chile and political activity has revived, its dimension and vitality, once so rich, is circumscribed.
The United States also felt the effects of 9/11/73. Policymakers were shocked at the revelations of our involvement. And at the same time they learned of Nixon's increasing willingness to wield the powers of government against perceived domestic as well as foreign enemies.
Nixon resigned in August 1974. Congressional investigations of our the use of government here and abroad by the Nixon administration led it to reinforce and strengthen the prohibition on domestic surveillance by the CIA. It banned the use of assassination as a tool of foreign policy. CIA director Richard Helms was indicted and convicted of lying to Congress about US involvement in Chile.
Today the connections between the two September lls remain. While we are pursuing Saddam Hussein in order to try him for war crimes, prosecutors in four countries are pursuing Henry Kissinger to get him to testify about his role in the Chilean coup.
In the aftermath of 9/11/01 the Bush White House has reinstated many of the practices of the Nixon White House and has adopted a similar approach regarding those who oppose its policies. Nixon had an enemies list. Vice President Cheney declares, "You're either for us or against us." The policy of covert interventions in foreign countries has been revived. The CIA now is intimately involved in domestic surveillance. The White House has formally re-established the practice of political assassination.
This September 11th we should remember two anniversaries and reflect on the links between the two.
Message 12/32 11-Sep-03 @ 04:14 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
its a spread, for toast mainly. Its like Vegimite that they have in Oz. Its got yeast and beef extracts in it. You'll either love it or hate it.
http://www.marmite.com/
http://www.marmite.com/
Message 13/32 11-Sep-03 @ 04:22 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
no beef in marmite, it's yeast all the way. you're thinking of bovril.
Message 15/32 11-Sep-03 @ 05:08 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
marianimal
Posts: 448
Link?: No link
File?: No file
Yeah, thanks jf. That's something they definately didn't cover in american history when I was in school (and yes, 9/11/73 had already happened by then). The books made it seem as if things like the Teapot Dome Scandal and the Great Depression were so completely archaic that we would never see anything like them again, as if everything became all rosy after the World Wars. I spose that's what people wanted to believe.
The one good thing about 9-11-01 was that sudden feeling of unity, when everyone was concerned about their loved ones. Then it changed into other things.
The one good thing about 9-11-01 was that sudden feeling of unity, when everyone was concerned about their loved ones. Then it changed into other things.
Message 16/32 11-Sep-03 @ 05:11 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
Jock said: "I hoofed up a chinese takeaway into the water butt in my back garden one night. I forgot about it until a year or so later when we had a drought and I wanted to empty the water but over the lawn. Jeez, you've got no idea how much chow mein swells up when its soaked in water. I had to rake it all off my lawn coz the lawn mower could get it all up."
You should've used a snowblower.
You should've used a snowblower.
Message 18/32 11-Sep-03 @ 05:37 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
no need to thank me marianimal , just wanted to make sure it wouldn't go unnoticed.
history is like apology, it's either seeking pardon or a justification.
i like 1947 tho'
he! he!, sitar called me If.
history is like apology, it's either seeking pardon or a justification.
i like 1947 tho'
he! he!, sitar called me If.
Message 19/32 11-Sep-03 @ 05:48 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
jock, you've had most of our summer, you can have some of our snow too, it's right around your corner.
speaking of winter, i want a scarf mr. mad hatter
speaking of winter, i want a scarf mr. mad hatter
Message 21/32 12-Sep-03 @ 02:27 AM - RE: 2 years ago today
Yeah, I read about the Chilean 9/11 in the Economist and CSM this week. They definitely left that one out of the American history books I read. Although, to be fair, my classes never got past WWII. Seemed we ran out of time...
Message 22/32 12-Sep-03 @ 05:45 AM Edit: 12-Sep-03 | 05:46 AM - RE: 2 years ago today
JF, I heard something on NPR recently about that little debacle. Its good to see truth spreading. Well done.
Two years ago...
About three or four weeks later a friend and I left a club at around midnight. I had told her earlier that I had no desire to go anywhere near the site but after walking for about an hour we ended up in Tribeca. We came upon one of the many impromptu memorials at one of the many fences surrounding the area. There was a cop guarding the area but he didn't say or do anything when we crossed the line and began re-lighting some of the candles that had blown out. There were dozens upon dozens of them. I didn't chastise Kim for surreptitiously leading us there and we didn't "decide" to re-light the candles - it was what needed to be done, it seemed the right thing to do. After about 15 minutes a few others came upon us and also crossed the line to help. We spent about an hour there and I seem to recall that, at some point, we both began to quietly weep. I know it sounds really cheesy and I can't explain that moment but it was somehow "right" - it was okay to feel for these people we would never know. I really appreciate Kim for that moment.
Two years ago...
About three or four weeks later a friend and I left a club at around midnight. I had told her earlier that I had no desire to go anywhere near the site but after walking for about an hour we ended up in Tribeca. We came upon one of the many impromptu memorials at one of the many fences surrounding the area. There was a cop guarding the area but he didn't say or do anything when we crossed the line and began re-lighting some of the candles that had blown out. There were dozens upon dozens of them. I didn't chastise Kim for surreptitiously leading us there and we didn't "decide" to re-light the candles - it was what needed to be done, it seemed the right thing to do. After about 15 minutes a few others came upon us and also crossed the line to help. We spent about an hour there and I seem to recall that, at some point, we both began to quietly weep. I know it sounds really cheesy and I can't explain that moment but it was somehow "right" - it was okay to feel for these people we would never know. I really appreciate Kim for that moment.
Message 23/32 12-Sep-03 @ 01:37 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
i cried too, wednesday night, when it sank in.
the post about the chilean terror was not a denial of the sadness of 9/11/01, just a reminder for those other fellow earthlings who went trough this ordeal. i guess posting it on what most americans believe to be "THEIR" mourning day was insensitive.
"one man struggle, while another relaxes"
the post about the chilean terror was not a denial of the sadness of 9/11/01, just a reminder for those other fellow earthlings who went trough this ordeal. i guess posting it on what most americans believe to be "THEIR" mourning day was insensitive.
"one man struggle, while another relaxes"
Message 24/32 12-Sep-03 @ 02:22 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
only through realizing our wrongs can we ever hope to get it right.
Message 25/32 12-Sep-03 @ 02:52 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
as individuals, sure.
but as a collectivity ?
but as a collectivity ?
Message 26/32 12-Sep-03 @ 04:16 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
marianimal
Posts: 448
Link?: No link
File?: No file
I think it's true on a collective level too.
Message 27/32 12-Sep-03 @ 04:48 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
which is why society will never function properly, because it's founded on a false principle: we don't all want to be together, and until culture makes an allowance for people cooperating but not being unified (americans will scoff since they're all brainwashed to think people belong together, in nice tidy, exploitable groups) you're going to get a mouthful of nails every time.
Message 28/32 12-Sep-03 @ 06:11 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
i meant collectivity as in species, marianimal
there should be a few species fundamentals and an unalterable will to restore and protect diversity down to it's tiniest minute expression.
*passes the bong*
there should be a few species fundamentals and an unalterable will to restore and protect diversity down to it's tiniest minute expression.
*passes the bong*
Message 31/32 14-Sep-03 @ 10:29 PM - RE: 2 years ago today
i think marmites ok, dont love it or hate it just think its ok.
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