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Subject: What is electronic music?

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Original Message 1/33 06-Apr-04 @ 07:00 AM - What is electronic music?

casparproject

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So I'm in the psychology wing of the uni I'm currently attending and a display on the wall catches my eye. The topic is something like "Cognitive function and listening to music." There's also a haphazardly placed pic of one of the Yammie grooveboxes on the page, which made me curious. In the first paragraph, I see what seems to be a very closedminded reference to Baroque classical music vs Techno. They refer to Techno as having "no real harmonic or logical construction." Holy shit, I think, where are these ppl getting this information. They try to back the statement up with another bald assertion "techno music is constructed for the purpose of mimicing industrial noise." The freakiest part is that there are references on this project. I'm going to try to find where they got this info, but this is in a post-graduate psych course. I can't believe they are saying this stuff.

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Message 2/33 06-Apr-04 @ 07:24 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

mcc>

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i tried all night to get that gritty industrial sound and all i could find was this vaguely asian chant-like baroque figure....mesmerizing with a sweet bappity beat and beep.
i must be doing something wrong.

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Message 3/33 06-Apr-04 @ 08:26 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

dubmunkey

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techno having no logical contruction?!?!?!? wtf?!?!? whats the whole 4/4 thing about then?

greg

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Message 4/33 06-Apr-04 @ 08:41 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

Steve Roughley

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" but this is in a post-graduate psych course"

Aaahhh. They're academics. I wouldn't worry too much, especially as they're studying Psychology. It attracts a pretty fickle and quite often ditsy lot (not allways, but alot of the time). Dr Phil anyone?

Steve.

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Message 5/33 06-Apr-04 @ 10:11 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

dub-munkey

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yeah actually didn't think of that.....if i believed any of the acedmic music shite i heard at uni....

"there are only two types of listener: the rhythmically responsive and th emotionally responsive"

what a load of sh*t!

greg

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Message 6/33 06-Apr-04 @ 10:18 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

Wee Willy Winky

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Is it that electronic music is music made with electronics?

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Message 7/33 06-Apr-04 @ 11:53 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

dub-munkey

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nah thats mains hum....

greg

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Message 8/33 06-Apr-04 @ 12:05 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

sitar

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Hehe! Casparproject arises from the ashes to post at DT! Look what it took to wake him from the dead.

That is ludicrous Caspar. That's like saying "all _______(fill in your choice of race) are ignorant because they don't join country clubs" or some such thing. I hope you can educate these people. Why don't you put up a display next to it. I'll even send 3 samples you can use.

1. Gorgeous classical music I've written.

2. Mesmerizing sitar I've played

3. One of many shit techno tracks I've written because it's difficult for me to get it all right as there is so much to understand on so many levels to write cohesive techno from scratch.

To give the moron a perspective throw in the first track of Orbital's Snivilization.

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Message 9/33 06-Apr-04 @ 02:38 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

Broken Silence

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I don't know about you all, but I'd shit on his desk..

See I hate my chemistry teacher so much and I've figured that a pile of poo on her desk would serve her right for giving us this tricky titration shit and shit we shouldnt have to know to pass chemistry.

So she teaches us stupid shit, she's gonna get a pile of it on her desk. If I got caught for it, according to my math I'd get kicked out of school. Thats why I'm paying anyone in my class to drop a bomb in the bathroom, in a bag, then proceed to empty the turds anywhere on her desk- 3 days before the end of the school year so she has to smell the shit when she teaches her last 3 days of class. Also I want her to have to talk to the class in a serious tone "Honestly guys, who took a shit on my desk?"

Fucking amazing. It's worth me paying 100$ to see that shit. Quite literally.

But see, you don't tackle such shitty things without having a game plan, like positioning, meals before hand etc etc. So I'm going to have a line of conestants, see their how they eat etc. Fuck knows, they might make it a new reality show on fox "The Mysterious Fantom Shitter- Who's shit's worth its weight in gold? Find out on Tuesday!" For positioning, you get paid more for what you do. If for example you leave a turd on her keyboard, thats extra cash. Because when teachers come back in the room, the first thing they go for is their computer---and what's better than sitting down to a nice lump of shit on your keys?

Anyways, back to the topic. Frankly, I'd shit on the professors desk if I could. Especailly with that comment, I mean come on...

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Message 10/33 06-Apr-04 @ 03:28 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

Jock

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I'd take it all with a pinch of salt, some crappy thesis written by some c*nt of a student. Lets face it, the majority of students are completely clueless.

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Message 11/33 06-Apr-04 @ 03:29 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

mcc>

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just do the music man and get those thoughts outta yer head!!!!

the shit'll be behind you before you know it......that is...if you let it.
do something weird and it'll stick to you for a time.
you don't need that.

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Message 12/33 06-Apr-04 @ 03:35 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

xoxos

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you will never find such ignorance anywhere as you will within the domain of institutional education, mark my words.

remember - people educate themselves to get careers. careers involve having abilities other people don't have, or at least nurturing the distinction.. if you don't look down on the masses, how are you going to feel right charging them hundreds of dollars for an hour of consultation?

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Message 13/33 06-Apr-04 @ 03:47 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

dub-munkey

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amen to that....at my institution there was more numptys then you could shake a special-school at...

i was quite shocked at the level of ignorance of most of my class.....

best moment? when our american teacher made the mistake of telling us we would all be speaking german if it weren't for yanks like him.....he got caned! the tirade ensued for the rest of the lesson...it were proper bo i tell thee....

greg

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Message 14/33 06-Apr-04 @ 04:30 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

mandylion (uneducated dropout)

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Well at least harmonics in classical music are most of the time way more complex and _evolving_ than in repetitive techno.... also the instruments are more connected in classical music..... i.e. you often hear techno track that has some simple bassline going thru a whole piece without changes while other sounds change on top of that. But it doesn't mean classical would be better music than techno... both have their own functions.

Cheers,
uneducated dropout.

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Message 15/33 06-Apr-04 @ 04:59 PM Edit: 06-Apr-04 | 05:00 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

Steve Roughley

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I get the feeling that what they mean by Techno, is all electronic dance music, not just detroit etc. At least that is what it was used to mean when I used to live in NSW (you are in Aus, right Caspar?). Besides, would anyone with such a poor understanding of dance music, ever use the term Techno to actually refer to that genre? So it would be extremely easy to destroy their argument, but what's the point?! The academics would just scoff like diseased frogs. Remember, we are not professors of Psychology.

Steve.

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Message 16/33 06-Apr-04 @ 07:05 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

battleship

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Another interesting thread.

I'd be willing to bet that these exact same arguements were also tossed about when Wolfgang and his bunch were doing their thing. I'm sure they had their share of purists who thought the frivolousness of baroque was crap, but that was all just a matter of perspective, right?

Its too bad the author of this wacky display has confused his perspective with truth. I'm sure we all going to be remembered as artists though, and not brainless munkies like this guy seems to imply. His loss, I say.

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Message 17/33 06-Apr-04 @ 07:49 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

optofonik

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I find it odd that an academic treatise would use such a colloquial term as "techno" with no defining exposition. I would like to read the whole thesis or whatever it is. I can understand an argument revolving around the seemingly simple structures used in much popular dance music but a brief looksee into the academic world of ethnomusicalogy would uncover superficial similarities that could lead to the same conclusion about many culturally and academically relevant musics. Attending university does not always lead to enlightenment, however, learning and becoming educated almost certainly does. A good number of the college educated people I meet are surprisingly ignorant with very little education apparent in their behaviour or speech. That is not to say that I am very well educated, I'm not, and one only needs to pick out the holes in some of my more colorful rants to realize this. I do, however, try to learn whatever and whenever I can from available, credible, resources. It's not as easy to find credible resources, howeve, since Miss Cleo's been off the air.

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Message 18/33 06-Apr-04 @ 09:13 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

RAzz

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Id like to add a few past experiences in my research with psychology, mostly from the modern standpoint. Also, im on boths sides of the coin..so to speak.
Having a post-graduate degree in psych, I can hopefully give back to you guys since you have been so giving to me. This one thesis/rambling stating that "techno" ie. 4/4 music
is all crap compared to Bach or whomever is ridiculous. For one, thats like me comparing Einstein to John Nash. Its 2 completely seperate issues. Remember that nowhere in this guys rambling does he say he has a music degree. Or same still, have audio production experience enough to back up his what he says. The 2 biggest sellers in the industry right now, are "techno" and "hip-hop". I would never compare Puff-Daddy to Bach. That ridiculous. Remind yourself that this is one article from one individual.
There are hundreds more articles, that explore the use of the 4/4 beat and why we are drawn to it. I wrote a very lengthy report about this. There are also videos available from various T.V. sources that exhibit club life, and DJ's
and how it effects us biologically. One of the reports showed that the 4/4 beat mimics the biorhythm of the mothers heartbeat within the womb. This induces that "trance" like state, and exhibits that hypnotic effect. It is also indicative of tribal ceremonies. They smoke the peace pipe and eat mushrooms in the woods, and we do it within a building =).
My point and im sorry for rambling is that if the music sucks so much then why is it so popular? I would like to sit that guy down in front of my setup and say..."ok make something not crappy!" or crap on his desk..either one.

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Message 19/33 06-Apr-04 @ 10:50 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

battleship

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Caspar,

I think we're all leaning towards the "crap on his desk" option on this one. That guys an idiot.

Battleship

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Message 20/33 07-Apr-04 @ 01:03 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

casparproject

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Hmm, I find it interesting that none of you asked what the results of this "study"
were. Interestingly enough, they found that "Techno" was not quite as effective
as "Baroque" though very close to it. Not only did they talk shit in their thesis,
their research showed only enough difference to maybe suggest that the
subjects' familiarity w classical music rather than "Techno" made them more
receptive to "Baroque." I think I'm leaning toward the shit on the desk option,
though I would never have the guts to do it.
Here's my thoughts on the matter. Classical music up until the mid-Romantic
was concerned primarily with harmonic and secondarily with rhythmic patterns
and rules. Starting with composers such as Debussy and Stravinsky Timbre
and Rhythm began to take a more primary (and primal) role in musical
composition. This trend continued through the course of the 20th c until
minimalism, which often made rhythm and or timbre take on the main focus of the
music. With the rise of minimalism there was a sudden break in tradition, where
a focus on sound itself, esp. electronic sound synthesis. Electronic music is a
truly progressive part of musical history, and history will hopefully show that.

Peaceout,

Peter

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Message 21/33 07-Apr-04 @ 01:09 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

mcc>

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so why is ET dancing?

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Message 22/33 07-Apr-04 @ 04:19 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

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'cause he's gotta poop real bad and he's saving it for the prof's desk

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Message 23/33 07-Apr-04 @ 07:15 AM - RE: What is electronic music?

psylichon

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attempts to quantify the value of art/creation amuse me to no end. Like... o- kaaaay...

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Message 24/33 07-Apr-04 @ 02:11 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

craig

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Hmmm. Interesting that... I think there will be a place for electronic music in history.. They taught a chapter on musiqe concrete in my music history course.. That was in '93-93 so it was only a few years old (comparitively). People had the same criticisms about jazz, blues, and ragtime when they were popular as well.

-Craig

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Message 25/33 07-Apr-04 @ 02:24 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

dub-munkey

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musique concrete is shite though....

greg

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Message 26/33 07-Apr-04 @ 03:27 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

mcc>

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but only when you listen to it.

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Message 27/33 07-Apr-04 @ 03:41 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

dub-munkey

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if they are still talking about musique concrete now they'll definitly still be talking techno 50 years from now when acid-hillbilly is all the rage.....

i do have to bite my tongue when talking about music with elders....whenever my grandparents ask to hear an example of my stuff i say 'no, you'll hate it' purely cos if it isn't sinatra or country and western they dont consider it music at all.....and their parents probably thought the same about well swing and country and western.....

greg

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Message 28/33 07-Apr-04 @ 04:40 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

craig

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True, it's not very listenable but it did lay the foundation for a lot of electronic music. Cutting up tape loops was sampling before there were samplers.

-Craig

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Message 29/33 08-Apr-04 @ 04:33 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

lurker

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I think they are wrong on the "logical construction", but as far as harmony, serious dance music (including techno) does not involve any harmonic complexity.

There is a name for dance music which uses harmonic progressions: it is called "cheese".

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Message 30/33 08-Apr-04 @ 05:35 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

Broken Silence

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Why are we arguing about what some smug Fuck said about a GENRE of music anyways?

Make your own innit

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Message 31/33 08-Apr-04 @ 06:43 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

battleship

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If someone could just shit on his desk, we could be done with it.

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Message 32/33 08-Apr-04 @ 08:49 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

Pongoid

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Hey Cas. Long fuckin time. Most of these fools got NO idea who you be. LOL Those are some pretty mindless, and uneducated statements. If you'd care to furnish the autors of such statements' names, I'll behappy to convince them of the errors of their ways, and shed a bit of light upon their obviously darkened hollow spaces for cranial cavities.

Ape

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Message 33/33 08-Apr-04 @ 10:30 PM - RE: What is electronic music?

SpinbacK

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hey speaking of long time no see (btw hey casper)

oh btw, ape, im needing those atari disks back as soon as poss.

mail me at - Alan@Blustudio.co.uk and ill give you my adress again.

alan

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