I need help arranging a house track - Music techology forums

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Subject: I need help arranging a house track

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Original Message 1/36 23-Jan-04 @ 09:58 PM - I need help arranging a house track

Mike Geary

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Hope someone out there can provide me with some help . I have been slowly getting together a decent collection of kit and consider myself pretty competant with it . I produce house music in a sort of moody US style but i keep hitting on the same problem .
All the ingredients of each track sound great and i am always satisfied with what i can produce in terms of loops , bass , synth , samples . Problem is , when i try to arrange it all into the finished article it never seems to sound "right" . The tracks just never seem to flow like i know they should and by the time i have finished tinkering i have usually lost the original vibe that created the track in the first place. Any help or suggestions would be well received .
I know there is no template that works every time but i really am getting frustrated and maybe i look into things too much rather than keep it simple . I don't know but i hope you can help . Cheers

michael.geary@ntlworld.com

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Message 2/36 23-Jan-04 @ 10:03 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Mindspawn

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Possible aid: listen to stuff you like, note how it's arranged and try to do something similar. Once you get your head around the "bread and butter" of how arrangements are done (that you like), then you can take what you've learned about how other folk do it and apply it with your own spin/style....

Good luck!

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Message 3/36 24-Jan-04 @ 02:11 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Hydrofonix

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What I sometimes do that really helps is don't listen to the track your working on at all for a couple of days. Burn it to CD and listen to it a couple days later when your relaxed, like driving in your car or lounging around your house after a couple of drinks (moderate amounts of alcohol almost always does the trick for me, weed is the same way but you by no means need these) Don't force yourself to critique the track, just listen and get into it. Usually my mind will just fill in the blanks and I'll feel how things should be arranged.

I know thats not a solid or logical solution but lets face it good music no matter what kind is about soul and soul cannot be formulated.

Hope that helps.

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Message 4/36 24-Jan-04 @ 03:44 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Influx

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I always lay on the floor of my studio and just try to feel if it works.

and..like hydro said...the work kinda tells me what to do.

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Message 5/36 24-Jan-04 @ 05:57 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Hydrofonix

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Haha!! Influx you do the floor thing too? I also find myself pacing around the room sometimes....

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Message 6/36 24-Jan-04 @ 08:11 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Influx

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I used to. havent in a while. not sure why....not as connected with my tunes as I used to be...and theyve gotten a bit more static because of it.

I pace all the time, so..thats a given

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Message 7/36 25-Jan-04 @ 09:05 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Hydrofonix

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Nervous??

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Message 8/36 25-Jan-04 @ 10:03 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Influx

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me? shiiiit.

anyway...try the layin down trick, man. dont think about it too much. just feel it

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Message 9/36 25-Jan-04 @ 04:42 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

xoxos

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get high/drink a bottle of robitussin dm.. then you'll feel a bit unusual and perhaps not listen for the same things you listen for (ie. are proud of, like about it) and you'll be able to -hear- it since you're too busy feeling abnormal.

apart from that, i suggest stripping down the pitched elements until you've got a more rhythmic set and adding the harmonic components in diff. combos to see what works.. build the track around that progression, once you've got it to a successful 'energy build,' find out what you can drop/change to make it hit again.

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Message 10/36 25-Jan-04 @ 06:16 PM Edit: 25-Jan-04 | 06:17 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

BluStudio

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if your talking about folwing as in it sounds good all together but flowing in and out of the bits/introducing parts sounds harsh/abrupt then you could try somethings like-

drop the kick out and leave the hats/perc running while bringing in a new loop then build for 4 and drop the kick back in with the new loop

do a drop of the kick and most of the perc leaving a quick 1234 of a sample and reverse an echo'ed kick fade in then bang it all in together with the new part

anyhow mebbe thats not what you were after but just encase it helps- on my profile theres like 3 or 4 tracks with loadsa shit going on/in/out if that gives you any ideas/help- sweaty trance stuff but principles are there

try Dreams In blue, clawed or hi-rise

sometimes it helps just to keep it going even if the introduced sounds sound a wee bit odd and then when you have it all layed out do all the edits (sweeps/filters/side-chained gates etc whatever works) across the ends of the bars your going to be bringing stuff in on and it usually does gell together not so bad in the end

blu

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Message 11/36 25-Jan-04 @ 07:19 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Hydrofonix

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Like a blind man in an orgy just feel your way around....

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Message 12/36 26-Jan-04 @ 07:25 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

dt regular

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get ing high on weed! That'll make your ears properly tune in and you get loads of ideas. Well I do anyway. Plus listen to tracks you rate. And please don't do that droping the kick drum out for a bar as its been done soooooooo many times before and we are in 2004! Shit, that rhymed, maybe I should be a jungle MC.

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Message 13/36 26-Jan-04 @ 09:12 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Influx

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uh oh. god forbid you do anything thats ever been done before!

dont use square waves

dont use sawtooth, sine, triangle.

PLEASE dont ever have a 1 bar breakdown to signal a transition

that is SO 2003!

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Message 14/36 26-Jan-04 @ 09:13 AM Edit: 26-Jan-04 | 09:16 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

BluStudio

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fuck off and log in dt regular

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Message 15/36 26-Jan-04 @ 10:38 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

dubmunkey

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yeah stuff all that its been done before business.....for tracks to be part of a genre they need an recognisable element- when im doing jeff mills style techno i always do that quick drop out/reverse technique.....

oh please dont use a four to the floor bd for house thats so the last 20 years! he he he

greg

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Message 16/36 26-Jan-04 @ 11:54 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

GrooveMonkey

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WHy not post a track or two then we can all hear whats wrong and advise better rather than groping around in the dark..

G

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Message 17/36 26-Jan-04 @ 03:02 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

MXP

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how bout you f@#k off the house music and produce some f@#king jungle

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Message 18/36 26-Jan-04 @ 03:19 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

dubmunkey

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jungle?!?! thats sooooooooooooooo 1994........hahahahahahaha

nah seriously jungle? its a bit toy-town....

greg

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Message 19/36 28-Jan-04 @ 03:50 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

MXP

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jungle - toy town - are you for real what part of the world are you from

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Message 20/36 28-Jan-04 @ 08:38 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

milan

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fast car... we're going faster... we're going faster

or do you not agree?

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Message 21/36 28-Jan-04 @ 09:07 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

dubmunkey

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MXP- im from the UK, not that that actually means anything....

but i guess by slaggin a genre you like ive produced the same reaction from you that i had when you slagged off a genre that i liked....

greg

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Message 22/36 28-Jan-04 @ 09:26 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

RagnarOk

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I think trance rule.

Now beat me HARD!

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Message 23/36 28-Jan-04 @ 10:09 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

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lol - yeah... Mindspawns advice is usual for beginners - Listen to what you like and write down the linear structure - eg:

riff intro 8 bars - riff intro + hat 8 bars - riff intro + hat + kik 8 bars

whatever - write a linear 'plot' deviding it into bars (count 'em)

then take YOUR music and arrange it the same way - listenand tweak.

once you get into the swing of it you can just do it yourself - making a linear arrangement is one of the hardest thinsg tho - making good grooves which can loop around 4, 8 or 16 bars is comparitively easy, and that is why often DJ's who re-mix can get it right cos they work exclusively with making linear arrangement on the fly with various vinyls
- so mebbe also you could try doing a mix with a Deejay friend sitting in co-mixing it?

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Message 24/36 28-Jan-04 @ 11:58 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Dingostema

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I'm with K and Mindspawn on this one mate. Choose a track of an artist that you like, one that in your ears flows nicely. Choose a track that is in a similar style to your style of music. I used to beatmap the track so it was running at the same tempo as my project. Then i would chuck it into an audio track within my project. If you mute all the channels in your project other than this audio track, you can listen to it and watch it in the arrange window and see on your project what happens in his track a certain times. Use this as a guide and a good learning tool.

Dingo

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Message 25/36 31-Jan-04 @ 02:08 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Mike Geary

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Cheers (most of you) - helpful in different ways but helpful all the same .
Will post a track soon - however you do that??? then any constructive criticism will be gratefully taken on board .
Can't really see the logic in the house/jungle bickering . Both have been born out of the same experimental approach to music and have a lot in common . To disregard either or say one is crap while the other is great does a disservice to the pioneers who brought electronic music (in all it's various forms) so far in such a short space of time . Stop moaning and enjoy it all .
Thanks again for all the suggestions - i'm off now to try and build a track that sounds like all the others - almost anyway .( 4/4 bass drum of course ).

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Message 26/36 31-Jan-04 @ 02:15 PM Edit: 31-Jan-04 | 02:25 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Mike Geary

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What is with all the funny talk?

"That is SO last year"
"4/4 is SO 2002"
"Jungle is SO 1994"

Sounds more like f#@king trinny and suzannah than a music forum darlings .

If house didn't borrow from the past it simply wouldn't exist - same goes for all music . Tell Oasis they won't sell any records using those same old rock 'n' roll chords . Er ..... they did!!! Ooops sorry - maybe Oasis are SO 1994 too .
As for rock 'n' roll - is that SO the 50's? Why do people on here say stuff like that??
Maybe i need to move with the times and pretend i'm on Sex in the city or something . Then i could SO talk like a penis!!!!!

Keep rockin'

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Message 27/36 31-Jan-04 @ 04:09 PM Edit: 31-Jan-04 | 04:10 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

BluStudio

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i think the 'soooooooooooooo' stuff is a piss take from the first one mike, but talk like a penis by all means

blu

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Message 28/36 31-Jan-04 @ 04:16 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

milan

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aye... we take the piss a lot in these forums... dont mind us

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Message 29/36 01-Feb-04 @ 01:14 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

psylichon

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"talking like a penis".... LOL I'm using that one! hahahahahah!!!!

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Message 30/36 01-Feb-04 @ 04:09 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

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yawn, obviously you're a peein'

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Message 31/36 01-Feb-04 @ 04:54 PM Edit: 01-Feb-04 | 04:57 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Mike Geary

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tried talking like a penis but all that came out was bollo@ks

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Message 32/36 01-Feb-04 @ 06:13 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

mcc>

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like anything.....it just takes a little practice.

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Message 33/36 03-Feb-04 @ 10:11 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

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quote
tried talking like a penis but all that came out was bollo@ks

lol

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 34/36 03-Feb-04 @ 10:13 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

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BTW Mike - I updated your profile to an ARTIST user type - check your admin.... you'll see new stuff in your admin area drop-down select list for adding/editing tracks, creating & editing any albums etc

___________________________________

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Message 35/36 03-Feb-04 @ 11:53 AM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

dubmunkey

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mike,

i was taking the piss, what you'll find here is a bunch of people who just cant resist.......bit like the 'what synth for trance?...'.

easy

greg

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Message 36/36 03-Feb-04 @ 05:35 PM - RE: I need help arranging a house track

Noz

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There are loads of ways of approaching it and no single formula would work.

You can try just starting from the beginning ie. imagine how it should start - chords or a riff or just a kick and try building it up on the fly. When you've developed a theme and the groove is going you'll get the feeling it needs a change or it'll get boring, then try dropping stuff in and out. Needless to say it will end up totally different from how you imagined it.

Or you can come up with the "climax" bit - the most pumping-all-instruments-firing part and work out how to get to it, probably twice.

You can even try a verse/chorus thing. Even though a lot of techno doesn't go for that classic song formula I think there are often common sections which sort of work in a V/C way, but maybe that's just me.

I reckon this is the hardest bit to house music. I've tried writing out he structure of tunes I like and one thing I noticed was that there wasn't all that much in common. I guess they tend to go Intro, main groove, climaxy bit, groove, breakdown, cliamax, outro but then some are totally different. The only thing they all have in common is the building and release of tension which isn't much more helpful than saying "just develop a feel for it"!

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