Over produced? - Music techology forums

Forums - Music techology

Subject: Over produced?

Viewing all 37 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4

Original Message 1/37 16-Sep-03 @ 11:32 PM - Over produced?

Defector Z

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

So I'm listening to a cd from a local rock/blues artist (www.jenkearney.com - hell of a voice) - and I extracted the audio and did some analysis. Now, I'm no expert producer, but I've been around. Seems a little oversquashed to me - the RMS is around -10db which seems excessive for this type of music - it totally squashes out her voice, and steals some of the natural dynamics. Seems like the producer did a little too much.

Although I will say, she is one of the best songwriters I've heard in a LONG time.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 2/37 16-Sep-03 @ 11:36 PM - RE: Over produced?

mcc>

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

is this math class?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 3/37 16-Sep-03 @ 11:38 PM - RE: Over produced?

Influx

Posts: 7627

Link?: Link

File?: No file

LOUD is getting to be the standard

take a look at the waveform of some songs, too. odds are theyre squared off

wouldnt be surprised if some modern acoustic music looked like that too!

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 4/37 17-Sep-03 @ 12:24 AM - RE: Over produced?

Omo

Posts: 39

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Xoxos told me that my stuff is far too loud, I think I'm going deaf.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 5/37 17-Sep-03 @ 12:30 AM - RE: Over produced?

mcc>

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

i couldn't hear a word you typed.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 6/37 17-Sep-03 @ 12:32 AM - RE: Over produced?

Boo

Posts: 133

Link?: Link

File?: No file

Who posted that link to an article on how all music (with an exception of a lot of Jazz and Classical) has been getting more and more compressed as time goes by?

Maybe it's time for us to set the standard for uncompressed/lightly compressed Techno with huge dynamic range?

I honestly think it's the only way some of the weedy rock instruments can get anywhere near the boom of good Dance tracks. Maybe in some strange way they feel they have to compete?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 7/37 17-Sep-03 @ 12:42 AM - RE: Over produced?

Defector z

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

I agree - music is getting too loud. It has been discussed here before, I was just a little surprised to find it happening with a small label/producer. Don't know why. It's just sad.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 8/37 17-Sep-03 @ 01:04 AM - RE: Over produced?

digital rust

Posts: 720

Link?: Link

File?: [image]

[image file]

i'm reading this REALLY good book on mastering that has a
whole chapter dedicated to this topic. the examples are
pretty eye-opening as far as how "hyper-compressed"
music on all fronts (except classical) has gotten.

here's the blurb:

On the left side is a piece of heavily compressed pseudo
"elevator music"I constructed for a demonstration at the
107th AES Convention. In the middleis a four-minute
popular compact disc single produced in 1999, with salesin
the millions. On the right is a four-minute popular rock and
roll recordingmade in 1990 that's quite dynamic-sounding
for rock and roll of that period.The perceived loudness
difference between the 1990 and 1999 CDs is greaterthan
6 dB, though both peak to full scale. Auditioning the 1999
CD, one masteringengineer remarked "this CD is a
lightbulb! The music starts, all the meterlights come on,
and it stays there the whole time." To say nothing aboutthe
distortion. Are we really in the business of making square
waves?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 9/37 17-Sep-03 @ 01:13 AM Edit: 17-Sep-03 | 01:14 AM - RE: Over produced?

digital rust

Posts: 720

Link?: Link

File?: No file

here's another really good article showing examples:

Here

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 10/37 17-Sep-03 @ 01:14 AM - RE: Over produced?

digital rust

Posts: 720

Link?: Link

File?: No file

http://prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/
8A133F52D0FD71AB86256C2E005DAF1C

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 11/37 17-Sep-03 @ 01:19 AM - RE: Over produced?

Boo

Posts: 133

Link?: Link

File?: No file

It all just becomes white noise in the end. Scary.

Just by looking at the middle waveform, I can guess that the track in the middle is that famous Ricky Martin song.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 12/37 17-Sep-03 @ 01:27 AM - RE: Over produced?

Defector z

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Are you suggesting that my hero, Ricky Martin, is square? Shame on you. MILLIONS of girls CAN'T be wrong...

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 13/37 17-Sep-03 @ 01:40 AM - RE: Over produced?

Boo

Posts: 133

Link?: Link

File?: No file

No, he's uber cool! According to his waveform, he's right up there with Metal and Gabba!

Awesome!

We should either stop compressing our stuff or compress it again and again. Has anybody tried applying overall compression to something, say, 7 times in a row? How would THAT sound?

I'm guessing it would sound KICKASSAWESOME and then some.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 14/37 17-Sep-03 @ 03:14 AM - RE: Over produced?

psylichon

Posts: 4573

Link?: Link

File?: No file

yes, I have.

The thing is, people are just overcompressing on the main mix buss or mastering entirely too much. If you want your mix to really be that loud, you need to carefully compress and automate individual tracks to maximize your mix energy at every moment. I'm not saying that sounds best, but it sounds a whole hell of a lot better than square waves all over the map.

I agree that shit is entirely too compressed nowadays. It sounds great for some rock and heavy electronic shit, but otherwise, let the instruments SPEAK!

psy

p.s. speaking of mastering i learned a GREAT new trick the other day at work that is blowing my mind. All I'll say now is that is has to do with MS matrixing. I'm working on an article, so stay tuned...

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 15/37 17-Sep-03 @ 03:22 AM - RE: Over produced?

mcc>

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

math class can be cool sometimes.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 16/37 17-Sep-03 @ 05:16 AM - RE: Over produced?

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

yeah that's all well and good but does anyone know how I can set a compressor to get this nylon string guitar to REALLY PUMP!! ?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 17/37 17-Sep-03 @ 05:20 AM - RE: Over produced?

psy

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

lol!!

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 18/37 17-Sep-03 @ 05:23 AM - RE: Over produced?

Whoooahh!

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Pumping Nylon? Is THAT a new genre???

I got this phat ass tambourine shuffle that just BITES YOUR ASS with it's WICKED BOUNCE. I compressed it at 5:4:1 11 times and I'm STILL NOT done with IT yet.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 19/37 17-Sep-03 @ 09:22 AM - RE: Over produced?

milan

Posts: 5701

Link?: Link

File?: No file

MS matrix? wouldnt have anything to do with regulating bass levels by any chance?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 20/37 17-Sep-03 @ 02:15 PM - RE: Over produced?

psy

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

[touches nose and points at milan] yer on the right track, my friend...

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 21/37 17-Sep-03 @ 03:23 PM - RE: Over produced?

mcc>

Posts:

Link?: No link

File?: No file

i think bass-level regulation is the future.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 22/37 17-Sep-03 @ 04:17 PM - RE: Over produced?

99devils

Posts: 2707

Link?: Link

File?: No file

That ProRec article is dead on. Vapor Trails is a horrible sounding record. Easily the worst recorded of Rush's career, and that's saying a lot. I like the sound of their records from the '70s much better.

-Craig

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 23/37 27-Sep-03 @ 11:08 PM - RE: Over produced?

DRIFTKICKER

Posts: 36

Link?: Link

File?: No file

yeah... that's right graig. I remember the sound of rush..
really transparent and... ehm...friendly. Even though some
bits are (musically) really hard and full > desolate
guitarsolo's and bouncy percussion. is it true that they
didn't do any overdubs. Has Neil Perth 4 arms?
That song about the bushes in the forest that get all p'd off
by the oaks and other big trees that steal al the light. So
they bushes go on strike or something. I don't have that
tape anymore, not for years.
funny..
D

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 24/37 28-Sep-03 @ 03:54 AM - RE: Over produced?

influx

Posts: 7627

Link?: Link

File?: No file

heh. bushes

its called "The Trees"

damn good song, political metaphor that resonates

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 25/37 28-Sep-03 @ 06:12 AM - RE: Over produced?

PlazIdyllic Pleazurkraft

Posts: 1444

Link?: Link

File?: No file

The Mastering Engineers Handbook has a series of interviews with various mastering engineers of note and there is a theme that runs through the interviews regarding apparent volume and the lack of dynamics in much of the music being produced these days.

I've just finished four pieces for a couple of local college radio stations and I am considering not "mastering" them. They are ambient in nature anyway so "loud" is not a requisite. They're all 16 bit, 44.1 so there is no need to dither. I'm thinking sequence, fades, a little EQ, some limiting (very little to, quite frankly, fix a relative level problem on one piece that I kinda fucked up before I thought about releasing it) and no compression.

After reading what I've read over the past few years I would be interested to hear more natural music because I've begun to wonder how long its been since I listened to anything outside of classical music that wasn't "mastered" beyond reason. With a good mix that needs no corrective surgery I have begun to wonder about the relevance of anything outside of sequencing, level matching, and EQing for tonal coherence.

WTF have I been listening to! I've been duped! Its not real music! In the end I guess the bottom line is, depending on the music: does it help make the miles go by faster, does it help make cleaning my apartment seem less mundane, does it have a good beat that I can dance to, does it seemingly enhance mine and my partner's orgasm, and oh yeah, does it inspire me.

Its late.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 26/37 30-Sep-03 @ 09:37 PM - RE: Over produced?

99devils

Posts: 2707

Link?: Link

File?: No file

I've seen Rush live 6 times, and you'd swear Peart does have four arms. He's easily the best drummer I've ever seen, out of about 70 bands or so.

Anyways, I do agree that loud mastering does seem to take a lot of that undefinable "something" out of the music. I'd love to see more dynamic records.

-Craig

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 27/37 30-Sep-03 @ 09:58 PM - RE: Over produced?

Influx

Posts: 7627

Link?: Link

File?: No file

so how do we change that?

put out a record thats not loud enough and people complain about it!

personally, Id rather learn how to do proper mixes than have them LOUD

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 28/37 30-Sep-03 @ 10:29 PM - RE: Over produced?

Steve Roughley

Posts: 1178

Link?: No link

File?: No file

Or follow the lead of Charlie May and use heavy compression to work for your sound, not just to boost it.

Regards.

Stephen.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 29/37 02-Oct-03 @ 08:02 PM - RE: Over produced?

digital rust

Posts: 720

Link?: Link

File?: No file

right now there's no more headroom because we've
reached a ceiling (0db) so really there's no place left to go
except lower.

collectively everyone needs to not hypercompress
everything and discussions like this will do some good.

and after people start to get tired of hearing over
compressed music everyday on the radio and cds eventually
it will start to change.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 30/37 02-Oct-03 @ 08:14 PM - RE: Over produced?

99devils

Posts: 2707

Link?: Link

File?: No file

The average idiot won't get tired of it. They don't know any better.

It's all beacause of execs trying to get their song to be louder on the radio

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 31/37 02-Oct-03 @ 08:55 PM - RE: Over produced?

digital rust

Posts: 720

Link?: Link

File?: No file

then someone better tell the electronics manufacturers to
make the ceiling +10db for consumer audio equipment

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 32/37 04-Oct-03 @ 12:37 AM - RE: Over produced?

BOO

Posts: 133

Link?: Link

File?: No file

Expansion will be the new compression! Let us expand everything until it's super expanded and real dynamic and easy on the old ears.

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 33/37 04-Oct-03 @ 03:37 AM - RE: Over produced?

errata

Posts: 403

Link?: Link

File?: No file

Expansion's just a tricky chorus... bah!

Won't be satisfied until it's so "clean" you can't hear it!!!

e

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 34/37 04-Oct-03 @ 07:14 PM - RE: Over produced?

Influx

Posts: 7627

Link?: Link

File?: No file

"Expansion's just a tricky chorus... bah! "

Im sorry, but, COMO?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 35/37 04-Oct-03 @ 07:45 PM - RE: Over produced?

cheddar

Posts: 673

Link?: Link

File?: No file

propaganda from ...

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 36/37 04-Oct-03 @ 08:47 PM - RE: Over produced?

Influx

Posts: 7627

Link?: Link

File?: No file

propaganda!

nah...just curious what E means about expansion being the same as chorus?

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Message 37/37 04-Oct-03 @ 08:53 PM - RE: Over produced?

BOO

Posts: 133

Link?: Link

File?: No file

Yeah, wha? Expansion and Chorus are bedfellows?

NAY! It can't be!

[ back to forum ] [quote]

Viewing all 37 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4

There are 37 total messages for this topic

Reply to Thread

You need to register/login to use the forum.

Click here to Signup or Login !

[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]

Back to Forum