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Forums - Music techology
Subject: The Posers leave the floor...
Viewing all 37 messages - View by pages of 10: 1 2 3 4
Original Message 1/37 09-Sep-03 @ 02:12 AM - The posers leave the floor...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1026308,00.html
Anybody get hurt by this apart from the Super Clubs and the Magazines?
Sorts the wheat from the Chaff, I suppose...
Anybody get hurt by this apart from the Super Clubs and the Magazines?
Sorts the wheat from the Chaff, I suppose...
Message 2/37 09-Sep-03 @ 02:58 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Good.... now maybe some new styles will evolve...
Message 3/37 09-Sep-03 @ 03:04 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Exactly. While they're not totally to blame for lack of progression, I do think they nurtured a whole bunch of Cowboy cheese meister producers in it for a quick buck.
Message 4/37 09-Sep-03 @ 03:07 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
its funny how the mainstream always calls something that isnt in the mainstream "dead"
its only valid if its on radio one or KROQ?
pshaw!
its only valid if its on radio one or KROQ?
pshaw!
Message 5/37 09-Sep-03 @ 07:25 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Viv Craske, the editor of Mixmag: ".....people no longer want to listen to cheesy anthems that are nothing to do with clubbing."
i cant believe even mixmag got it!
i cant believe even mixmag got it!
Message 6/37 09-Sep-03 @ 06:01 PM Edit: 09-Sep-03 | 06:28 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
What will be left over is an audience raised on an electronic aesthetic, waiting for its evolution. Its already happening.
Its happening on WREK. A college radio station in Atlanta whose electronic music playlist, the bulk of their peak programming, is more akin to post WWII electronic avant-garde than to post-techno "IDM". It could also be seen as an evolution or continuation of the aesthetic that was evolving in the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's. Having a closer relationship to Steve Reich, Coum Transmissions, Cabaret Voltaire, and Foetus than Kraftwerk (That's not meant derisively. In my estimation Kraftwerk have the important and oft misinterpreted distinction of bridging the gap between academic electronic music and popular electronic music, popular being the operative word, specifically "dance" in all its post 70's Kraftwerkian flavors from New Wave to the latest incarnation of House/Techno/DnB) this is music that truly begins to blur the line between academic electronic music and popular electronic music by sheer number of up and coming practitioners and program directors potentially willing to accommodate them.
Electronic music's audience over the past fifteen years is getting older. Instead of watching them defect artists should be trying to find ways to grow with them, to cater to the tastes of their audience and what should have been from the start, their own tastes as well (assuming a maturing of one's tastes). It would be nice to see the evolution of the what was perceived as the anti-rockstar aesthetic of the early 90's. A rekindling of the relationship between electronic music and performance art would be a breath of much needed fresh air for an audience that has grown to want more than a DJ spinning records or lone "artist" twiddling knobs on a stage. I would rather see all this evolve into a new form of theater exclusive of rock-and-roll and the overblown vapid ponderousness of Broadway theater.
While I'm not saying that many of the people losing interest aren't poseurs I'm sure there are many who are simply bored with the same old thing and with "artists" who really aren't. Artists evolve and change, sometimes radically. For many who got turned onto electronic music over the past fifteen years it was seen as an exciting alternative to the tired sameness of the sound of RnR. The timbres used were different and, at times, the rhythm was different but after awhile its all started to adhere to a formula that, by definition, is no different than the RnR model.
I realize that dancing is one of if not the oldest form of creative human expression and this is after all Dancetech, so it can safely be said that we, especially on this website, like dance music. However, current dance music is dying in the same way that, for example, Ska died. One or two co-opted or prefabricated artists will remain as figureheads for the mainstream ala "No Doubt". Others, more true to the particualar tradition, will continue to carry the torch becoming respected but nostalgic acts - there will always be some incarnation of "The Skatalites" touring. Dance music will "go underground" but its the artists who choose to redefine dance music that will make it interesting again in no small part because of dance music's relationship with electronic music in general and because of electronic music's long history.
In redefining dance music I think it will be important to take into account electronic music's history and its relationship to Dada, the Futurists, the early avant-garde AND, perhaps most importantly, its overlooked relationship (accidental or premeditated) to nonwestern musics because while dancing implies rhythm, throughout the world those rhythms encompass a vast spectrum of metric division. Couple electronic music's inherent strength to redefine timbre and, through micro-timbral options on some commercial synths, experiment with tonality, to an acknowledgment of metric diversity and an opportunity can be created to redefine the rhythmic aesthetic thereby redefining contemporary "dance" music (from the standpoint of rhythm - I have always been amazed at the hold that the kick and snare timbres have on the popular rhythmic aesthetic). I think that the first step will come from artists who do not set out to create "dance music". I think that these artists will simply write electronic music outside current dance music convention that will inspire people to dance even without glowsticks and baggy pants.
Its happening on WREK. A college radio station in Atlanta whose electronic music playlist, the bulk of their peak programming, is more akin to post WWII electronic avant-garde than to post-techno "IDM". It could also be seen as an evolution or continuation of the aesthetic that was evolving in the late 60's, 70's, and early 80's. Having a closer relationship to Steve Reich, Coum Transmissions, Cabaret Voltaire, and Foetus than Kraftwerk (That's not meant derisively. In my estimation Kraftwerk have the important and oft misinterpreted distinction of bridging the gap between academic electronic music and popular electronic music, popular being the operative word, specifically "dance" in all its post 70's Kraftwerkian flavors from New Wave to the latest incarnation of House/Techno/DnB) this is music that truly begins to blur the line between academic electronic music and popular electronic music by sheer number of up and coming practitioners and program directors potentially willing to accommodate them.
Electronic music's audience over the past fifteen years is getting older. Instead of watching them defect artists should be trying to find ways to grow with them, to cater to the tastes of their audience and what should have been from the start, their own tastes as well (assuming a maturing of one's tastes). It would be nice to see the evolution of the what was perceived as the anti-rockstar aesthetic of the early 90's. A rekindling of the relationship between electronic music and performance art would be a breath of much needed fresh air for an audience that has grown to want more than a DJ spinning records or lone "artist" twiddling knobs on a stage. I would rather see all this evolve into a new form of theater exclusive of rock-and-roll and the overblown vapid ponderousness of Broadway theater.
While I'm not saying that many of the people losing interest aren't poseurs I'm sure there are many who are simply bored with the same old thing and with "artists" who really aren't. Artists evolve and change, sometimes radically. For many who got turned onto electronic music over the past fifteen years it was seen as an exciting alternative to the tired sameness of the sound of RnR. The timbres used were different and, at times, the rhythm was different but after awhile its all started to adhere to a formula that, by definition, is no different than the RnR model.
I realize that dancing is one of if not the oldest form of creative human expression and this is after all Dancetech, so it can safely be said that we, especially on this website, like dance music. However, current dance music is dying in the same way that, for example, Ska died. One or two co-opted or prefabricated artists will remain as figureheads for the mainstream ala "No Doubt". Others, more true to the particualar tradition, will continue to carry the torch becoming respected but nostalgic acts - there will always be some incarnation of "The Skatalites" touring. Dance music will "go underground" but its the artists who choose to redefine dance music that will make it interesting again in no small part because of dance music's relationship with electronic music in general and because of electronic music's long history.
In redefining dance music I think it will be important to take into account electronic music's history and its relationship to Dada, the Futurists, the early avant-garde AND, perhaps most importantly, its overlooked relationship (accidental or premeditated) to nonwestern musics because while dancing implies rhythm, throughout the world those rhythms encompass a vast spectrum of metric division. Couple electronic music's inherent strength to redefine timbre and, through micro-timbral options on some commercial synths, experiment with tonality, to an acknowledgment of metric diversity and an opportunity can be created to redefine the rhythmic aesthetic thereby redefining contemporary "dance" music (from the standpoint of rhythm - I have always been amazed at the hold that the kick and snare timbres have on the popular rhythmic aesthetic). I think that the first step will come from artists who do not set out to create "dance music". I think that these artists will simply write electronic music outside current dance music convention that will inspire people to dance even without glowsticks and baggy pants.
Message 7/37 09-Sep-03 @ 06:26 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
marianimal
Posts: 448
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Wow. That could be cool. I was just thinking about this middle eastern traditional group I saw that had the whole audience of a couple hundred clapping out the basic beat, while the drummers never actually play on those beats. The dancers or clappers must provide the skeleton, and the drummers put flesh on it, I spose. And I was wondering how that could work with sequenced electronic music. Hm. But yeah, you know, 6/8, that's a really danceable beat, even for westerners. Definately good to explore.
Message 8/37 09-Sep-03 @ 06:48 PM Edit: 09-Sep-03 | 07:04 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
"And I was wondering how that could work with sequenced electronic music."
I think that that is one of the things that must change about electronic dance music. I'm not saying that sequencing should be completely eliminated from performance - tape loops and reel-to-reel machines were (and still are) a tradition in electronic music before computer sequencing, however, I think the reliance on sequencers should be severely curbed to the point where not every piece an artist performs uses them. The sequenced electronic duo needs to give way to ensembles of however many performers are needed to accomplish the performance without relying on sequencers.
I recently saw this and was intrigued:
http://www.infusionsystems.com/press/computermusic96winter.html
An interesting discusison here:
http://beepsnort.org/archives/000039.html
I think that that is one of the things that must change about electronic dance music. I'm not saying that sequencing should be completely eliminated from performance - tape loops and reel-to-reel machines were (and still are) a tradition in electronic music before computer sequencing, however, I think the reliance on sequencers should be severely curbed to the point where not every piece an artist performs uses them. The sequenced electronic duo needs to give way to ensembles of however many performers are needed to accomplish the performance without relying on sequencers.
I recently saw this and was intrigued:
http://www.infusionsystems.com/press/computermusic96winter.html
An interesting discusison here:
http://beepsnort.org/archives/000039.html
Message 9/37 09-Sep-03 @ 07:12 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Hmmmm...
I think part of the beauty of techno (generic) is that it's essentially faceless, imageless and whole albums can be created by just one person.
While I do like the idea of stage shows, I think the idea of people just enjoying the music for music's sake rather than any idol worship is a far more important thing.
People should just enjoy the music, interact with the people around them and the DJ should just sit quietly in the background and not draw attention to themselves.
I think part of the beauty of techno (generic) is that it's essentially faceless, imageless and whole albums can be created by just one person.
While I do like the idea of stage shows, I think the idea of people just enjoying the music for music's sake rather than any idol worship is a far more important thing.
People should just enjoy the music, interact with the people around them and the DJ should just sit quietly in the background and not draw attention to themselves.
Message 10/37 09-Sep-03 @ 07:40 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
but the DJ isnt the artist, and the interaction of live show...genuine transfer of energy between performer and audience...or the lack of that interaction...maybe thats whats keeping/kept e-music from getting any further.
dunno...I sure miss the whole jamming thing. Dont miss the egos and attitudes tho
dunno...I sure miss the whole jamming thing. Dont miss the egos and attitudes tho
Message 11/37 09-Sep-03 @ 07:58 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Dave, I agree about the egos but its too easy, if you have the ability and the gear, to lock yourself away and forget how to interact in an ensemble setting. It really is the perfect example of the potentially depersonalizing nature of technology. Why "deal" with bandmates when I can do it all by myself. Some of the best music comes from the ebb and flow of conflict, reconciliation, and compromise, though. The music in situations like that have the potential to become a mirror of the human dynamics in an ensemble and thereby a mirror of the human condition.
Message 12/37 09-Sep-03 @ 08:20 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Everybody should use Ableton live. It's my favorite thing.
Message 13/37 09-Sep-03 @ 08:23 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
"...and thereby a mirror of the human condition."
this is your aspiration, is it?
this is your aspiration, is it?
Message 14/37 09-Sep-03 @ 08:38 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
thanks xoxos...
You see... I don't personaly want to display the human condition in music. What I love most about electronic music is the lack of ego that comes from playing it. I mislike lyrics because they dictate how you're going to feel and they are usualy some banal, individual "everyone's a snowflake" expression of selfish desire and emotional discharge! I've soooooo fuggin' had it with this pedantic self important notion of the "artist"!!!
Techno (generalization, hehehe) is grand because it is not about a group of musicians doing this convential group display for a conventional group of hipsters... it's about moving your body, following the mind, and just being in the music. EVERYTHING at dance parties is about those three things! F=ck all this bullshit about evolving electronic music into some new and abstract place! Yes the music will change, and it should... but the problem with techno (all the genre's) IS in the DJ and this superstar notion that glorifies his act as a rock star!
Now we want to drag this wasted JAZZ ideal into it? Great, just what we need... more egocentric, self vomitous masturbation! Hoo-rah!
As this "popularity" fades, we will see more people who believe in the music as more than entertainment... and more "artists" who view themselves as a part of something (and equal to the other parts) rather than the purpose of the thing itself! These parties should never have been about any one "thing"... that's not how they started, and it's WHY the "scene" is collapsing, because those who built it have, for the most part walked away form the bullshit!
e
You see... I don't personaly want to display the human condition in music. What I love most about electronic music is the lack of ego that comes from playing it. I mislike lyrics because they dictate how you're going to feel and they are usualy some banal, individual "everyone's a snowflake" expression of selfish desire and emotional discharge! I've soooooo fuggin' had it with this pedantic self important notion of the "artist"!!!
Techno (generalization, hehehe) is grand because it is not about a group of musicians doing this convential group display for a conventional group of hipsters... it's about moving your body, following the mind, and just being in the music. EVERYTHING at dance parties is about those three things! F=ck all this bullshit about evolving electronic music into some new and abstract place! Yes the music will change, and it should... but the problem with techno (all the genre's) IS in the DJ and this superstar notion that glorifies his act as a rock star!
Now we want to drag this wasted JAZZ ideal into it? Great, just what we need... more egocentric, self vomitous masturbation! Hoo-rah!
As this "popularity" fades, we will see more people who believe in the music as more than entertainment... and more "artists" who view themselves as a part of something (and equal to the other parts) rather than the purpose of the thing itself! These parties should never have been about any one "thing"... that's not how they started, and it's WHY the "scene" is collapsing, because those who built it have, for the most part walked away form the bullshit!
e
Message 15/37 09-Sep-03 @ 09:17 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
yeah but e theres two sides to it, no? I mean..you had a partner for a long time...the interaction there formed your music differently than if you had done it on your own.
Micks got a point with the depersonalization thing. I mean...jesus...I spend about 95% of my time completely alone! and a lot of that is cuz of messin with tunes, or just tech in general.
my prob, I know...but the point is there
Micks got a point with the depersonalization thing. I mean...jesus...I spend about 95% of my time completely alone! and a lot of that is cuz of messin with tunes, or just tech in general.
my prob, I know...but the point is there
Message 16/37 09-Sep-03 @ 10:14 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
I'm not knocking working with other people... yeah, the music my partner and I made together was different and in many ways better than what I do on my own BECAUSE it was more than one person (not nearly as self-indulgent, so to speak). But that's not what I'm on my soap-box about.
It's more this notion that electronic music NEEDS to somehow be made in a traditional live form to please widdening, balding, aging ravers who are settling into their easy chairs and are less willing to challenge pre-conceived notions of what music is, and what it isn't. "Ah, it's not music 'cause it doesn't require a gang of people to play each part!" Like Moby and the other idiots who bring back-up bands and play "cross-over" music so that Jay Leno will take them seriously!
What I'm railing about here is that the music is about the music, and the people... not the "artist/s" and that's what's f+cked up dance music in the last few years... too many assholes who don't get that. And this notion that the form will only remain viable if "artisits" become MORE centered on themselves by branching out into becaoming these live acts made up of music professors that play crazy Jazz shit for the adoration of their audience just makes me shiver. Maybe I completely misunderstood, but that's what I see in this notion that electronic music needs to become more of a traditional "band" form, with people "playing" the parts of trax, etc.
It's wonderful, that one or two people can lay down beats, move the body and trip the mind. Making a spectacle of those guys is the problem not the solution!
e
It's more this notion that electronic music NEEDS to somehow be made in a traditional live form to please widdening, balding, aging ravers who are settling into their easy chairs and are less willing to challenge pre-conceived notions of what music is, and what it isn't. "Ah, it's not music 'cause it doesn't require a gang of people to play each part!" Like Moby and the other idiots who bring back-up bands and play "cross-over" music so that Jay Leno will take them seriously!
What I'm railing about here is that the music is about the music, and the people... not the "artist/s" and that's what's f+cked up dance music in the last few years... too many assholes who don't get that. And this notion that the form will only remain viable if "artisits" become MORE centered on themselves by branching out into becaoming these live acts made up of music professors that play crazy Jazz shit for the adoration of their audience just makes me shiver. Maybe I completely misunderstood, but that's what I see in this notion that electronic music needs to become more of a traditional "band" form, with people "playing" the parts of trax, etc.
It's wonderful, that one or two people can lay down beats, move the body and trip the mind. Making a spectacle of those guys is the problem not the solution!
e
Message 17/37 09-Sep-03 @ 10:43 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
I am agreeing with Errata. Yes.
Message 18/37 09-Sep-03 @ 11:13 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
"this is your aspiration, is it?"
Heh heh, got me. Did your meter go totally into the red on that one?
Fuck the human condition, okay. There is a vast body of work out there, ready to be listened to, appreciated, and influenced by and it encompasses more that DJ Twit and his Twitching Digits playing hackneyed dross for a bunch of DJ Twit clones who think they have a clue because they own an Autobahn CD (that they've played once). As far as "academics" go if it weren't for them we would all be playing electric guitar instead of synths. I think its sad that most people who listen to "electronic music" today have never listened to anything that was created prior to the mid 70's. Its like an aspiring writer who refuses to read anything but Stephen King.
Heh heh, got me. Did your meter go totally into the red on that one?
Fuck the human condition, okay. There is a vast body of work out there, ready to be listened to, appreciated, and influenced by and it encompasses more that DJ Twit and his Twitching Digits playing hackneyed dross for a bunch of DJ Twit clones who think they have a clue because they own an Autobahn CD (that they've played once). As far as "academics" go if it weren't for them we would all be playing electric guitar instead of synths. I think its sad that most people who listen to "electronic music" today have never listened to anything that was created prior to the mid 70's. Its like an aspiring writer who refuses to read anything but Stephen King.
Message 19/37 09-Sep-03 @ 11:21 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
hahaha... that's fine. I do listen, and appreciate! My point is not to bash on academics.. i agree with you that without them we'd not have synth music... BUT... that doesn't mean that dance music needs to follow their example or their lot. There's a place for such business... I have real respect for and enjoy the electronic "art" scene. I just don't think it needs to be where dance music goes, I personaly feel that's the wrong direction. Making the "art" and the "artist" even more pretentious will kill the "community" vibe that made dance music in the first place. I'm saying, the performer (that's us) shouldn't be put on a pedestal...
I'm not rejecting you or your ideas (or anything for that matter) out of hand... there's a place, and a time for these things... i just don't personaly think the dancefloor is that place or that time!
blah
e
I'm not rejecting you or your ideas (or anything for that matter) out of hand... there's a place, and a time for these things... i just don't personaly think the dancefloor is that place or that time!
blah
e
Message 20/37 10-Sep-03 @ 12:20 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
"I think its sad that most people who listen to "electronic music" today have never listened to anything that was created prior to the mid 70's. Its like an aspiring writer who refuses to read anything but Stephen King. "
mick..Im sorry man, but...I just cant agree with you. Not everyone got into it to feel like they were going to school. and not having listened to cage or walter/wendy doesnt mean jack shit.
I mean...I got into punk in the early 80s...the 2nd wave I guess? Was I not genunine because I didnt go listen to the stooges? New York Dolls? the people that influenced them?
bullshit.
I understand where youre coming from, and I agree that a revitalizing needs to occur. But...not the same one youre talkin about. Im diggin erratas take on it just a bit more. Remove the rock star stuff...
oh, and...youre baggin on "DJ Twit, et al" but..what about all those experimental ers from back then who just sat and made a bunch of fkking noise, played for a bunch of fkking bourgeoise "hipsters" to sit and gawk over and try to find meaning in? at least dance music is for DANCING and letting lose, not trying to show how tricky you are (well crap...new breakbeat stuff is goin that way in some ways with all the stupid computer trickery...)
mick..Im sorry man, but...I just cant agree with you. Not everyone got into it to feel like they were going to school. and not having listened to cage or walter/wendy doesnt mean jack shit.
I mean...I got into punk in the early 80s...the 2nd wave I guess? Was I not genunine because I didnt go listen to the stooges? New York Dolls? the people that influenced them?
bullshit.
I understand where youre coming from, and I agree that a revitalizing needs to occur. But...not the same one youre talkin about. Im diggin erratas take on it just a bit more. Remove the rock star stuff...
oh, and...youre baggin on "DJ Twit, et al" but..what about all those experimental ers from back then who just sat and made a bunch of fkking noise, played for a bunch of fkking bourgeoise "hipsters" to sit and gawk over and try to find meaning in? at least dance music is for DANCING and letting lose, not trying to show how tricky you are (well crap...new breakbeat stuff is goin that way in some ways with all the stupid computer trickery...)
Message 21/37 10-Sep-03 @ 12:36 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
"all those experimental ers from back then who just sat and made a bunch of fkking noise, played for a bunch of fkking bourgeoise "hipsters"...
that's what i'm on about... though I totaly DIG that stuff... Severed Heads, Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle... they helped build this stuff! Hell Richard James was a phenomenal producer, and he was big in the "dance" scene, but let's face it, fo the most part it was not danceable... his music was masturbatory, self indulgent, it didn't give a sh+t... which is GOOD!!! just sayin' that's not conducive to a dance scene...
I'm just saying, for dance music, we ought'a be checkin' our ego before we walk into the studio... if not we'll end up like Moby/BT. shrug
e
that's what i'm on about... though I totaly DIG that stuff... Severed Heads, Cabaret Voltaire, Throbbing Gristle... they helped build this stuff! Hell Richard James was a phenomenal producer, and he was big in the "dance" scene, but let's face it, fo the most part it was not danceable... his music was masturbatory, self indulgent, it didn't give a sh+t... which is GOOD!!! just sayin' that's not conducive to a dance scene...
I'm just saying, for dance music, we ought'a be checkin' our ego before we walk into the studio... if not we'll end up like Moby/BT. shrug
e
Message 22/37 10-Sep-03 @ 01:02 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
I'm the Logic audio editing god, you ninny! I cut up audio like you've never seen and have my own action figure.
I'm SO good and you BLOW.
I'm SO good and you BLOW.
Message 23/37 10-Sep-03 @ 01:14 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
damn, someone busted out a manifesto!
some of this is just the natural ebb and flow of taste and shit. it's very cyclical. all scenes need good weeding out now and then anyway. if all that euphoric anthem crap goes away, fine.
egos: you know that "nature abhors a vacuum" rule. of course some wankers were going to jump in an make themselves the "rock stars of electronica". apparently moby, bt, and all those DJs -- wait, I mean "I'm not just a DJ I'm also a producer"s -- didn't get the memo that it was supposed to be egoless and faceless. Sasha or Oakie figures "if someone's gonna get 40k for showing up with a record crate, might as well be me. And if there's some fellatio and some gak as part of the deal, boy howdy!"
words and singers: they ain't going away. deal with it. ya ever notice how many "music" reviews extensively quote lyrics? know why that is? music reviewers are writers, words are their stock and trade. it's easier for them to write someone whose lyrics are "meaningful" than it is to write purely about instrumental music, and as a result you get these clowns put up on pedestals whose backing music is boring in the extreme and sometimes even sound like crap "singing" -- example: that springsteen idiot. take a dump already! the masses are conditioned toward music featuring vocals. hell, even the "cable radio station" in my house that's dedicated to "electronica" plays almost exclusively cuts with singing of some sort.
that human quality in electronic music: fUckIt!
some of this is just the natural ebb and flow of taste and shit. it's very cyclical. all scenes need good weeding out now and then anyway. if all that euphoric anthem crap goes away, fine.
egos: you know that "nature abhors a vacuum" rule. of course some wankers were going to jump in an make themselves the "rock stars of electronica". apparently moby, bt, and all those DJs -- wait, I mean "I'm not just a DJ I'm also a producer"s -- didn't get the memo that it was supposed to be egoless and faceless. Sasha or Oakie figures "if someone's gonna get 40k for showing up with a record crate, might as well be me. And if there's some fellatio and some gak as part of the deal, boy howdy!"
words and singers: they ain't going away. deal with it. ya ever notice how many "music" reviews extensively quote lyrics? know why that is? music reviewers are writers, words are their stock and trade. it's easier for them to write someone whose lyrics are "meaningful" than it is to write purely about instrumental music, and as a result you get these clowns put up on pedestals whose backing music is boring in the extreme and sometimes even sound like crap "singing" -- example: that springsteen idiot. take a dump already! the masses are conditioned toward music featuring vocals. hell, even the "cable radio station" in my house that's dedicated to "electronica" plays almost exclusively cuts with singing of some sort.
that human quality in electronic music: fUckIt!
Message 24/37 10-Sep-03 @ 01:53 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Its much easier then that guys. Everything that goes up comes down..grunge had its years of fame..so did metal...its cyclic. Everythings is very hip-hop now..clothes, music, lingo etc.
One thing though, more people have the means to produce and compose professional tracks do to technology ..faster cpus, better programs etc..its only gonna get easier. It'll come back around..the club scene may not be the same for a while, but i can see why. Not as many people gettin cracked out anymore..a lot of "Famous Djs" are spinning gay ass tracks..
listen to the tracks in clubs now..its trendy,
and more main stream.
Hopefully it'll open more doors for guys like us..go in and show people what we can do, something more organic.
One thing though, more people have the means to produce and compose professional tracks do to technology ..faster cpus, better programs etc..its only gonna get easier. It'll come back around..the club scene may not be the same for a while, but i can see why. Not as many people gettin cracked out anymore..a lot of "Famous Djs" are spinning gay ass tracks..
listen to the tracks in clubs now..its trendy,
and more main stream.
Hopefully it'll open more doors for guys like us..go in and show people what we can do, something more organic.
Message 25/37 10-Sep-03 @ 02:00 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
I'm hoping there's going to be less CD covers with stupid grinning faces on them, too. They are all going down the BT route with glam shots. Gah! Drives me bloody mental.
The only tech artist who's face belongs on their own CD cover is Aphex Twin. So there.
Organic, you say? What do ya mean? Evolving noodlescapes?
The only tech artist who's face belongs on their own CD cover is Aphex Twin. So there.
Organic, you say? What do ya mean? Evolving noodlescapes?
Message 26/37 10-Sep-03 @ 02:07 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
pict
Posts: 1005
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People like singing,the voice is the primary in built musical instrument of human beings.That's why we all like songs singing gets to the core quicker than anything else a story,religious expression,or even a political statement,and music matched together seamlessly,all cultures admire it as a form of expression from the Lapps to the Arabs.The song reigns supreme amongst all forms of music the world over.True organic music requiring nothing but the voice nature has given you,too right it'll never go away.
Message 27/37 10-Sep-03 @ 02:55 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
who said they wanted it to? I LOVE good lyrics and character of voice
just not in my "techno"
just not in my "techno"
Message 28/37 10-Sep-03 @ 02:55 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
I agree with most of what has been said. The fact is that electronic music has now touched and pervaded several generations, thanks in large part to the analog synth and digital computers (sampling) afterwards.
The number of DJs spinning electronic-based music in each city and town at one time was staggering, and likely approached the number of acoustic bands in some hotspots. A sweeping statement yes, but you can't deny the fact of what it was.
An analogous example is the proliferation of manufacturers, both corporate and small, private businesses around the globe - US, UK, Japan, Germany, etc... nearly all of the leading technological countries have had a piece of the pie. Likewise, most of the leading artists have come from those same regions.
My point is that electronic music in its latest popular incarnation - dance... rather RAVE music - infiltrated and then saturated in the modern global pop culture.
But it is not the end. It is now with us everyday, in the media, the retail world, in other forms of music. Electronics in music is everywhere. There are more opportunities for us than ever, perhaps not in illegal warehouse raves that epitomized the escapist themes of rave culture, but out in the real world where music meets culture everyday.
The question is not where electronic music is headed as a whole - it is headed in every direction now that the underground movement exploded and hence decentralized.
The question for us, is what are we going to do with it on an individual basis, our love for the music, and perhaps our love for the ideals and themes of rave culture, and the more primitive notions of tribal celebration through dance.
For me, I know what it means, it has formed me as who I am today, an electrical engineer that more or less lives on continuing presence of electronic music in popular culture.
For you, that is your question to answer.
The number of DJs spinning electronic-based music in each city and town at one time was staggering, and likely approached the number of acoustic bands in some hotspots. A sweeping statement yes, but you can't deny the fact of what it was.
An analogous example is the proliferation of manufacturers, both corporate and small, private businesses around the globe - US, UK, Japan, Germany, etc... nearly all of the leading technological countries have had a piece of the pie. Likewise, most of the leading artists have come from those same regions.
My point is that electronic music in its latest popular incarnation - dance... rather RAVE music - infiltrated and then saturated in the modern global pop culture.
But it is not the end. It is now with us everyday, in the media, the retail world, in other forms of music. Electronics in music is everywhere. There are more opportunities for us than ever, perhaps not in illegal warehouse raves that epitomized the escapist themes of rave culture, but out in the real world where music meets culture everyday.
The question is not where electronic music is headed as a whole - it is headed in every direction now that the underground movement exploded and hence decentralized.
The question for us, is what are we going to do with it on an individual basis, our love for the music, and perhaps our love for the ideals and themes of rave culture, and the more primitive notions of tribal celebration through dance.
For me, I know what it means, it has formed me as who I am today, an electrical engineer that more or less lives on continuing presence of electronic music in popular culture.
For you, that is your question to answer.
Message 30/37 10-Sep-03 @ 04:19 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
the question becomes why should you let what anyone else is doing have such great import upon what you...yourself are doing as an artist....with or without your homies>
seriously....who gives a shin?
it's kinda nice to see and hear what other's are doing...but how should that affect you?!?!
only the club-owners and scene-mongers really need everyone to MOVE together.
25 bucks please....and that's just to get inside.
seriously....who gives a shin?
it's kinda nice to see and hear what other's are doing...but how should that affect you?!?!
only the club-owners and scene-mongers really need everyone to MOVE together.
25 bucks please....and that's just to get inside.
Message 31/37 10-Sep-03 @ 04:29 AM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Who's going to use my bended pitched themes now???
Message 32/37 10-Sep-03 @ 01:12 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
Marvelous, 1 week before the promo's for our first ever house release get pressed. Damn, the world is a cruel place.
Dingo
Dingo
Message 33/37 10-Sep-03 @ 03:03 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
wait 13 months and you can hail it as the revival/resurgence of deep-house....the way it was meant to sound>>
or you can fly the flag of the true-die-hard.
always a place for true-believers.
or you can fly the flag of the true-die-hard.
always a place for true-believers.
Message 35/37 10-Sep-03 @ 06:32 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
THIS IS A GOOD THING, REALLY!
Everybody is listening to Ragga in LA now. Bunch of stupid latte sipping kunts. I was bitched out by a stupid girl in a clothing store last week.
She had obviously been listening to pop bubblegum Ragga for a couple of weeks and was doing some god awful spazmodic ghetto dancing to it. I must have made a face that suggested distgust because she said "what's up? Don't you like Raggar?" I told her that what she was listening to was watered down shite for stupid bitches like herself to be 'into' for the next few months until something else trendy comes along.
I asked her if she was a fan of the washing machine and she was clueless.
I just want to slap the stupid bitches around here.
Anyway, it's good that it's going 'underground' again. How can we make it stay that way? Keep the fickle fukkuz out for good.
Everybody is listening to Ragga in LA now. Bunch of stupid latte sipping kunts. I was bitched out by a stupid girl in a clothing store last week.
She had obviously been listening to pop bubblegum Ragga for a couple of weeks and was doing some god awful spazmodic ghetto dancing to it. I must have made a face that suggested distgust because she said "what's up? Don't you like Raggar?" I told her that what she was listening to was watered down shite for stupid bitches like herself to be 'into' for the next few months until something else trendy comes along.
I asked her if she was a fan of the washing machine and she was clueless.
I just want to slap the stupid bitches around here.
Anyway, it's good that it's going 'underground' again. How can we make it stay that way? Keep the fickle fukkuz out for good.
Message 36/37 10-Sep-03 @ 06:54 PM - RE: The Posers leave the floor...
GPC
Posts: 11
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File?: No file
IMHO True techno, dance, rave call it what you like does NOT belong in the mainstream it s the music and the scene/s up. I have always avoided superclubs their shite compared to a proper rave or small club played by nobodys who have real passion and energy.
Look what happened to the uk hardcore scene a few years ago ed over by the likes of wankmag, but did it die, no did it it stronger than its ever been but to most people it doesnt exist.
As for rock its cool dont diss it, ok so their may not be any real true rockstars left as most of these wannabes go back to thier trailer to sip water and eat fruit instead of shagging groupies, getting wasted and dying young.
Been seeing a "rock" chick for a long time now and shes into most types of music but she doesnt do the rave thing its just not her (to many drugged up men scare her she doesnt feel comfortable) But I go to parties she does and me its fun, try it.
Maybe its all the kinky gear but most of them (even the young ones) know their music and listen to older stuff like zepplin, floyd, hendrix.
How many 18 year old danceheads do you know, know what real trance is, know where thier music come from. Just an opinion but I havent met many.
Techno will always live on even if im the only one still listening it isnt dead. Hardcore will never die! ask john peel (uk radio dj)
Bit of a rant but i'm sick of mainstream deciding whats hot and whats not, if you follow this then i feel sorry for you sheep out there, even the real rockers dont worry bout this shit they just keep on rocking the same as we should.
Ian
Look what happened to the uk hardcore scene a few years ago ed over by the likes of wankmag, but did it die, no did it it stronger than its ever been but to most people it doesnt exist.
As for rock its cool dont diss it, ok so their may not be any real true rockstars left as most of these wannabes go back to thier trailer to sip water and eat fruit instead of shagging groupies, getting wasted and dying young.
Been seeing a "rock" chick for a long time now and shes into most types of music but she doesnt do the rave thing its just not her (to many drugged up men scare her she doesnt feel comfortable) But I go to parties she does and me its fun, try it.
Maybe its all the kinky gear
but most of them (even the young ones) know their music and listen to older stuff like zepplin, floyd, hendrix. How many 18 year old danceheads do you know, know what real trance is, know where thier music come from. Just an opinion but I havent met many.
Techno will always live on even if im the only one still listening it isnt dead. Hardcore will never die! ask john peel (uk radio dj)
Bit of a rant but i'm sick of mainstream deciding whats hot and whats not, if you follow this then i feel sorry for you sheep out there, even the real rockers dont worry bout this shit they just keep on rocking the same as we should.
Ian
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