PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh - Music techology forums

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Subject: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

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Original Message 1/47 02-Feb-04 @ 04:16 PM - PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Got one of these annoying problems. My PC seems to shut down periodically when I play or record in Logic and doesnt seem to follow any pattern. It originally sounded like a Hard drive problem so I got a new hard drive, did a fresh install and same shit. During our vocal recording session yesterday it must have shut down (in mid flow) and least 15 times which was sodding frustrating. I am as sure as I can be that it is not a virus and my anti virus s/w is up to date and I have even scanned whilst in safe mode to no avail (it was a good idea Beds!).

My old man who builds and maintains pc's said he has had 5 calls from clients like this in the last couple of weeks, anyone know anything about this before I am forced to systematically replace every bit of hardware in my machine?

Cheers

Dingo

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Message 2/47 02-Feb-04 @ 04:34 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

chelvar

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holy crap! hope it isnt some new unidentified virus. really frustrating!

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Message 3/47 02-Feb-04 @ 05:03 PM Edit: 02-Feb-04 | 05:05 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

milan

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does it reboot automatically? you can turn that off so you'll get a blue screen instead, which will *hopefully* tell you something about the cause of it. i had a corrupt driver which was causing that on my machine just recently.

system properties-> advanced-> startup and recovery-> uncheck "automatically restart" under system failure

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Message 4/47 02-Feb-04 @ 05:07 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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yeah, it switches off, then tries to reboot, but of course it then has to go through the scan disk crap. The desktop loads up and more often than not i then get that fab xp message which say that 'the system has recovered from a serious error' - NO SHIT ?!?!?

What's the suggestion Milan? (btw mate that vocal session yesterday was a winner in the end)

Cheers

Dingo

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Message 5/47 02-Feb-04 @ 05:16 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

milan

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record to tape? :P

whats the suggestion? read what it says on the blue screen, and see if there's a driver name somewhere (usually top right corner or something) so maybe you find whats causing it.

it doesnt do it except when running logic, right? so its hopefully a driver or a conflict or something. have you looked at the system logs or system information for any clues?

poor singer btw... glad you managed anyway.

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Message 6/47 02-Feb-04 @ 05:20 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Are you talking about the blue screen you get after the machine tries to reboot and it runs through scandisk?

D

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Message 7/47 02-Feb-04 @ 05:28 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

milan

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no dude.... i am talking about the bluescreen you get when your machine cant go on anymore, blocks up and crashes! did you do what i said? and why arent you on irc?

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Message 8/47 02-Feb-04 @ 05:31 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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At work so IRC is blocked, even the Java aplet version wont work, I'll see you on IRC later hopefully!!

Dingo

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Message 9/47 02-Feb-04 @ 05:41 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Tom

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Hmm,

It sounds like some kind of a hardware conflict. I've had stuff like this happen before. There really isn't an easy way to find what's causing it. It could also be a virus, like other's have suggested. Maybe try taking out all cards from the computer, until you get it run stable. Make sure you're cpu is not overheating, does it only reboot in logic, or does it also reboot when you're doing other cpu instensive tasks?

Tom

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Message 10/47 02-Feb-04 @ 06:28 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

influx

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dingo

DO WHAT MILAN SAID and uncheck "automatically restart"

sheesh.

THEN right down the error code (s) and you can even go to the MS site and see if theres a description of your error code. that might put you toward understanding, OR toward a solution

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Message 11/47 02-Feb-04 @ 07:51 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

influx

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that would be WRITE down the error code

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Message 12/47 02-Feb-04 @ 08:15 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

xoxos

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mm.. i had one day w/ same thing, but long ago so don't remember - it'd either have been the heat thing or some goofy plugin i tried.

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Message 13/47 03-Feb-04 @ 09:11 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Now just to make things even more confusing, I left logic playing an audio intensive track all through the night and this morning it was still happily playing along. I am using Logic 5.5.1 and Milan has suggested that this version needs XP's service pack1 which I will try and install. There does seem to be some conflict between logic and a driver called NTDLL.DLL which is in the System32 folder in Windows.

grrrrrrrr,

Dingo

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Message 14/47 03-Feb-04 @ 10:37 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

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are u sure it aint a worm ? - (your pop said 5 this week similar hwich usualy is a worm - try some common worm scan d/loads from symantecs site and see perhaps?

___________________________________

I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 15/47 03-Feb-04 @ 11:27 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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I dont think it can be a worm mate. I have had this problem for about 6 weeks so Symatec would have provided all the virus definitions for NAV by now. I have run several full scans in safe mode and nothing has come up. Like I said, I even though it may have been a hard drive failure so I went and replaced it with a 120g and I've still got the same probs. Still, I have never updated XP so thats my next move.

Dingo

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Message 16/47 03-Feb-04 @ 12:13 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

sitar

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Do the Bluescreen thingy. See what the error message says. There is one particular error that you can spend weeks reading about on computer forums. It causes your puter to reboot. I forget what the error is called cuz it happened to me about a year ago but if I see it I'll know it immediately. My solution, and it seemed like there were other solutions from what I read, was to boot my RAM up to 1 gig from 512 mb. Never happened again. For whatever reason XP needs more RAM than previous OSs. Another possible cause but you have to do the bluescreen thingy to find out.

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Message 17/47 03-Feb-04 @ 12:32 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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I agree, the bastard thing is that as I said before, I left logic playing all night (after setting the bluescreen thingy up) and now the sod wont fall over?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Dingo

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Message 18/47 03-Feb-04 @ 06:23 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Optofonik - AKA, mick, rhyze, etc.

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I had a similar problem recently. I pulled a piece of memory out of my lappy and it went away. Bad memory with only a four year warranty.

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Message 19/47 03-Feb-04 @ 06:57 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

xoxos

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logic 5 requires xp? forget about that..

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Message 20/47 03-Feb-04 @ 07:44 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

milan

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no, but xp requires all the bugfixes in sp to work better...

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Message 21/47 04-Feb-04 @ 12:39 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Milan never said that Logic 5.5 requires XP, but that it needs the service pack1 to iron out a few probs.

Anyways, I finally got the blue screen and it said;

'Problem caused by the following file ati2dvag.dll' then said PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA !!

Hmmm, ati ?? I do have a dual head ati graphics card, might be that

grrrr arrgghhh hurumph etc

Dingo

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Message 22/47 04-Feb-04 @ 02:11 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

queasy00

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it's funny.. they hire programmers from my university and man... i dunno.. just be careful with their drivers! ;)

-j

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Message 23/47 04-Feb-04 @ 03:52 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

psylichon

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When you recently reinstalled everything, did you install all motherboard drivers (IDE, USB, especially AGP)?

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Message 24/47 04-Feb-04 @ 09:36 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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no, i didnt install all the motherboard drivers. Only the IDE and USB drivers. USB2 will not work unless I install service pack 1 anyway which as you know I havent done so far.

Cheers

Dingo

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Message 25/47 04-Feb-04 @ 04:06 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

psylichon

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I would install the AGP driver, innit?

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Message 26/47 04-Feb-04 @ 04:10 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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never, I have a dual output Radeon card, why would I want to install the drivers for any crap ob-board graphics card?. XP provides its own drivers that get you started anyway.

Dingo

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Message 27/47 04-Feb-04 @ 09:16 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

psylichon

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no no, it's not the actual video driver. It's the AGP bridge driver the motherboard uses to communicate with your video card, and it works in conjunction with your manufacturer's driver. Many times, it will sort problems such as this. Install it.

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Message 28/47 04-Feb-04 @ 09:25 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

beds

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get back to work dave

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Message 29/47 05-Feb-04 @ 11:00 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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OK, I now have a pukka copy of xp pro loaded, and left the bastard on all night to grab all of the updates that Mr.Gates had to offer, I have found brand new drivers for my hoonie and my graphics card so lets hope this is the end of my hassles. I seriously hope so as I have already started to diggng my own grave in the park.

Dingo

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Message 30/47 05-Feb-04 @ 11:28 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

milan

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goodie... you should always have the latest updates & drivers, no matter if your pc is working perfectly or not.

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Message 31/47 07-Feb-04 @ 06:58 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

roller8

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Take care with that latest driver thing with ATI. The last batch of drivers are all Catalyst drivers. I would install the Catalyst 3.8 and wait on the later versions for now. Unless the XP driver does you right.

I hate to add that XP uses a lot more resources than Win2k. You can run Logic 5.5 on Win2k nicely. If you decide to stick with XP then make sure it is "XP Pro" and if you kill the pretty graphics desktop you'll be running on one of the most stable OS's I've seen since DOS.

Good luck.

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Message 32/47 08-Feb-04 @ 02:56 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

sitar

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DRIVER_IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL error?

That's the error message I was talking about. Don't know if this has all been resolved in the meantime. Type that into google and you'll come up with tons of discussions on the matter and it seems different solutions eventually work for different people and nobody has the answer, at least as of several months ago.

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Message 33/47 08-Feb-04 @ 12:25 PM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Well, all seems well now. I have a genuine xp rpo copy!! All updates from MS too.

Have new Catalyst 4.1 drivers for the graphics and new Hoonie drivers to boot.

Seems stable as hell right now. Thanks for the help chaps.

Dingo

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Message 34/47 09-Feb-04 @ 04:06 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Garuna

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I'm having the same problem now. Very upsetting. My blue screen mentioned drivers and a "dump error". Will follow the advice in this thread, clean house and install xp pro w. service pack 2. Oughta do it.

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Message 35/47 09-Feb-04 @ 09:19 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Garuna,

Its the only way mate. I've never had a machine that was this stable before. The painful process of build, then rebuild, then rebuild, then rebuild etc was becoming a joke. I installed so many essential downloads this time for xp pro that my c drive ended up over 3 gig without any other applications! It just feels solid now. result.

One thing though, Once I had the machine up and running, with XP (fully up to date) and only the drivers installed, I made an image copy that I am keeping safe. If I ever load a dodgy app that screw up my machine, I can just burn back the drive image and other than re installing software again( which is a minor pain) I know I have a solid OS waiting for me that will only take 10 mins to copy back. Power Quest Drive Image 7 was great for this too.

Dingo

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Message 36/47 09-Feb-04 @ 09:34 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Garuna

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Good thinking. I got a new hard drive yesterday. I will install xp and carefully ad my new updated software and make sure drivers are working before i ad more. Man it felt good fomatting the old hard drive. "You will erase all contents.... Are you sure you wan"YES YES ERaaaASE

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Message 37/47 09-Feb-04 @ 10:25 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Find a copy of Drive Image 7 mate, well worth it. It is fast, safe and it works in windows (unlike Norton Ghost which is a DOS program).

If your system is set up like mine, where you have a program drive with your os and apps, and then a seperate data drive (audio, projects etc) then it makes real sense to burn an image copy of the program drive in case you ever install a VST or something that just makes your machine go mental!

Dingo

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Message 38/47 10-Feb-04 @ 05:52 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

psylichon

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I try to keep several images backed up based on incremental installs. So I'll have a"clean install," an "emergency apps only" sorta thing, and a "fully loaded" images all handy when needed. Easier to do with a DVD burner.

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Message 39/47 10-Feb-04 @ 09:21 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Garuna

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I'm going to take my chances and just make sure I have proper drivers. Means I can get too comfy with files on a drive in case I have to evacuate and format. That's okay.

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Message 40/47 10-Feb-04 @ 09:36 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Garuna,

Dont you have a drive that is purely dedicated to just your operating system and your applications?

Dingo

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Message 41/47 11-Feb-04 @ 03:08 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Garuna

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Yes I do. Have one partioned harddrive with audio and one hd with programs. But my programs hd still has stuff on it like wav's, midi files etc. Hmm maybe I'll move my library to that second partition.

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Message 42/47 11-Feb-04 @ 09:16 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Dingostema

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Garuna,

Thats the way man. Put anything data wise (wavs, midi files, sequencer projects etc) on your data drive. That way, you can make an image of your program drive at various stages during the rebuild and if you ever have a problem you can copy back an image and HEY PRESTO, you have a happy program drive again AND you haven't lost any data.

Only a suggestion.

Dingo

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Message 43/47 11-Feb-04 @ 09:52 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Garuna

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Thanks bud. Will try it.

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Message 44/47 13-Feb-04 @ 02:00 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Garuna

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Well I installed and moved files. The boot was flawless, but it kept shutting down randomly. At this point I was thinking it might be a hardware failure, which of course blows. Turns out it was the soundcard all along. The soundcard drivers were not conflicting with xp but with all the new plugs and progs I had added. Finally, my setup is stable. Any Delta 44 owners reading this must make sure they have this latest driver http://www.midiman.com/index.php?do=support.drivers There are about 20 bug/conflict fixes in that package.

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Message 45/47 13-Feb-04 @ 09:06 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

dingostema

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STILL make the backup - dont say I didnt warn you!

Dingo

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Message 46/47 17-Feb-04 @ 06:27 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

Garuna

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I hear you. But with prog's and files on two seperate disks, why so concerned about image? Simply reinstall. Sure, I do bundle backups in sonar. I think every one has their own way of setting up.

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Message 47/47 17-Feb-04 @ 11:21 AM - RE: PC Shutdown - aaaarrggghhh

dingostema

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Fair play. The reason that I make an image is so that if at some stage in the future my machine becomes unstable, I can just burn the image back in about 5 mins. I dont have to go through the hassle of re-installing the OS (many hours if it XP including downloading the updates), then all the drivers, then all your apps etc.

Dingo

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