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Subject: swing and groove secrets

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Original Message Date: 28-Jan-04 @ 05:13 PM - swing and groove secrets

James Burnett

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A question on swing and groove if anyones prepared to give up their secrets. You'll get good karma, I promise. How do you people go about injecting some groove in your club tracks. I've been using swing B in Logic and it works OK but I'm not entirely sure how to use swing properly. If I decide to move the 2 and 4 16th notes later by 21 ticks (swing B), then should I make sure that I use this swing setting on everything including all the drums and the bass and all the music?

I was reading that classic hip hop tracks keep the drums strictly quantised but swing the bass whereas classic funk tracks swing the drums but have a strictly quantised bass. I'm making (trying) underground house tracks and I reckon having everything strictly quantised is the best groove but this can't be right cos when I cut up all my favourite tracks (of CD, not vinyl), they seem to have some of their snares, percussion, etc that fall on the 2nd and 4th 16th notes (from what I can make out) on 21 and 41 ticks but when I attempt to do it, its sound sloppy and not tight.

Maybe I'm over analysing but surely groove can't just be about velocity and compression? How do you guys swing your tracks, have everything on the same swing setting or maybe slightly swing the main drums by say 6 ticks and swing the hats and shakers by 21 ticks? Do you think that�s the best way of looking at it?

I'm using my ears, I promise!!!

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Message 51/80 11-Feb-04 @ 01:53 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

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housey_25_bpm.mp3

add some shaker and it changes again, but again just cos it's got a skip on 21' and 41's it would get me up

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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 52/80 11-Feb-04 @ 02:18 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

mcc>

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you send me to a site with 50+ realplayer icons on the front-page after telling me to lose the evilbugger?

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Message 53/80 11-Feb-04 @ 08:39 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

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mate - havent you got the ALT real player? - it's fantastic - tiny, and no registration crap - dump realplayer and get it

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Message 54/80 11-Feb-04 @ 08:41 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

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there ya go - fantastic stuff! - banish realplayer forever

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Message 55/80 11-Feb-04 @ 09:41 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

psylichon

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lol, k my man... when are you going to remember that clay is macman?

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Message 56/80 11-Feb-04 @ 10:09 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

Tom Jenkins

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You guys make me laugh - hahahah. You lot carry on like some tortured artists caliming "there's no rules man, its an art form". Of course there are rules. The three rules of groove are:-

1. Velocity
2. The postioning of the 2nd and 4th 16th
3. How the drum elements play off each other

I think James was talking about the importance of the 2nd rule. Also, because House music is made at 125-129bpm, there isn't a lot of room to have a "live" drum sound or any wild swing settings otherwise it just sounds plain sloppy. Having drum elements on different groove/swing settings just sounds wrong and not tight. I tend to use just 3 different swiing settings for my tunes and it works well or at least I'm shifting a few units.

Tom Jenkins

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Message 57/80 11-Feb-04 @ 10:34 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

dubmunkey

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Tom you've summed up my feelings exactly.....with house there are certain rules and swing is one of them....who wants to manually shift stuff when you can just swing?

greg

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Message 58/80 11-Feb-04 @ 11:20 AM - RE: swing and groove secrets

milan

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tom jenkins... wasnt he the squarepusher? are you assuming his identity?

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Message 59/80 11-Feb-04 @ 12:30 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets

dubmunkey

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thats jenkinson........shame really i have a couple of questions for squarepusher...

greg

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Message 60/80 11-Feb-04 @ 01:45 PM - RE: swing and groove secrets

craig

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So next time I have a live drummer sit in I'll just tell him to make sure he's 41 ticks off

Those templates are an excellent starting point and often if you turn it on while building a groove, you'll build a groove that works well with the given swing. But they're not hard and fast rules. Anyone who argues that they are should join a drum circle.

-Craig

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