 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Music techology
Subject: optimistically naive kick question
Viewing all 8 messages - View by pages of 10: 1
Original Message 1/8 23-Oct-03 @ 09:52 AM - optimistically naive kick question
hello all...this is optimistic since i'm not a regular here, just dropping by, yet still hoping for some help...naive cuz i'm just getting started (have been doing some stuff for 2 years but just got a lot more gear).
so on to the question. i'm a house DJ in new york, i'm trying to make disco-y house songs of the kind that were popular 3 years ago and are shit now ; ).
right now i'm searching for the perfect kick.
i have an MPC, an MC 505, and a Jomox. can't get the right sound out of any of em.
i suspect that the problem is the producer, not the equipment.
SO -- any tips out there for making a great house kick? tight, punchy, relatively high-pitched.
is it about layering? compression? or having a mint 808?
i dj in pretty decent clubs here so i need my tracks to sound great to drop em in...the kick is king!
thanks in advance for any advice, i know the real solution is continued trial and error, but i'm open for suggestions about how to spend at least part of the next 1000 hours...
so on to the question. i'm a house DJ in new york, i'm trying to make disco-y house songs of the kind that were popular 3 years ago and are shit now ; ).
right now i'm searching for the perfect kick.
i have an MPC, an MC 505, and a Jomox. can't get the right sound out of any of em.
i suspect that the problem is the producer, not the equipment.
SO -- any tips out there for making a great house kick? tight, punchy, relatively high-pitched.
is it about layering? compression? or having a mint 808?
i dj in pretty decent clubs here so i need my tracks to sound great to drop em in...the kick is king!
thanks in advance for any advice, i know the real solution is continued trial and error, but i'm open for suggestions about how to spend at least part of the next 1000 hours...
Message 2/8 23-Oct-03 @ 10:00 AM - RE: optimistically naive kick question
Well, you named it there.. compression- and if you're using the MPC- use good samples.. no use to mangle stuff that is just plain shit. Still though, never used a jomox myself but from what I've heard you should definately be able to get a good bang out of that thing.
Message 3/8 23-Oct-03 @ 10:41 AM - RE: optimistically naive kick question
the jomox has some of the nicest synth kicks- defintley a 909 for today...but i think that would help you low end and maybe use a short acoustic kick with the bottom shaved off layered on top of a jomox or 909 kick.....compress and eq em togther and you will have a nice deep but quite natural sounding kick....
or you could do what Olav Basoskis mate did and sample a kick from a junior jack tune and use that for every track......
mpc is perfect for funky house- try a swing setting of 62%- yeah!
greg
or you could do what Olav Basoskis mate did and sample a kick from a junior jack tune and use that for every track......
mpc is perfect for funky house- try a swing setting of 62%- yeah!
greg
Message 4/8 23-Oct-03 @ 03:19 PM - RE: optimistically naive kick question
sometimes what you think is a problem with the kick is really a problem with the mix. pay attention to other sounds that are in the same frequency range. sometimes just hi-passing some of your non-bass sounds will open things up.
where in NY do you play this out-of-style house? I'm not so crazy about the current synthy sound and quite enjoy the disco. I don't hear it too much anymore.
good luck.
where in NY do you play this out-of-style house? I'm not so crazy about the current synthy sound and quite enjoy the disco. I don't hear it too much anymore.
good luck.
Message 5/8 23-Oct-03 @ 04:04 PM - RE: optimistically naive kick question
Do you have PC with a wave editor? If so, you could try something like this (I'll use soundforge as the wave editor):
1) Record a few kick drums from tracks you like the sound of.
2) Cut and normalize 1 kick from each track and paste them into a soundforge track, spaced by 1/2 a second or so. Save the track as "referencekicks.wav".
3) Sample the MC505 kick and the jomox kick into soundforge. A/B them with the reference kicks.
4) Now the key is how to edit your kicks so they sound more like the reference kicks. This is where you start experimenting with plugins: compression, EQ, pitch shifting etc... It takes time, but after a while you'll be able just by listening to instinctively know how to process your kicks to make them more like the reference kicks; just keep A/B ing them. PSP (http://www.psp-audioware.com/) have some cool plugins that might help. As a starting point download the PSPmixpack and PSPstereopack demos, then put your kicks through the mixpressor, mixsaturator, and/or mixbass; maybe apply a high pass eq beforehand at around 20-50Hz.
Sorry if most of this is obvious, just not sure if you have a PC editor. (If you don't, definitely get one)
1) Record a few kick drums from tracks you like the sound of.
2) Cut and normalize 1 kick from each track and paste them into a soundforge track, spaced by 1/2 a second or so. Save the track as "referencekicks.wav".
3) Sample the MC505 kick and the jomox kick into soundforge. A/B them with the reference kicks.
4) Now the key is how to edit your kicks so they sound more like the reference kicks. This is where you start experimenting with plugins: compression, EQ, pitch shifting etc... It takes time, but after a while you'll be able just by listening to instinctively know how to process your kicks to make them more like the reference kicks; just keep A/B ing them. PSP (http://www.psp-audioware.com/) have some cool plugins that might help. As a starting point download the PSPmixpack and PSPstereopack demos, then put your kicks through the mixpressor, mixsaturator, and/or mixbass; maybe apply a high pass eq beforehand at around 20-50Hz.
Sorry if most of this is obvious, just not sure if you have a PC editor. (If you don't, definitely get one)
Message 6/8 23-Oct-03 @ 11:31 PM - RE: optimistically naive kick question
thanks all, very useful suggestions.
it seems i need to spend more time in the kitchen ; )
knowa - i was playing at mission a lot this year, will be starting a new party on saturday nights at a place in the lower east side called Cachaca that's opening next month
it seems i need to spend more time in the kitchen ; )
knowa - i was playing at mission a lot this year, will be starting a new party on saturday nights at a place in the lower east side called Cachaca that's opening next month
Message 7/8 24-Oct-03 @ 03:29 PM - RE: optimistically naive kick question
cool we will go there. mission always seemed a little dressed up for my taste (and it's proximity to the ACTUAL Bowery Mission made it look all the worse), at least from the outside.
post the opening of cachaca here.
if you post a short mp3 here, I'm sure many would offer suggestions. no need to kick it alone.
best,
knowa
post the opening of cachaca here.
if you post a short mp3 here, I'm sure many would offer suggestions. no need to kick it alone.
best,
knowa
Message 8/8 30-Oct-03 @ 08:48 PM - RE: optimistically naive kick question
since you guys were helpful i figured i should report back on my kick experiments...maybe this would be helpful to someone else.
i'm happy to say things are much improved.
here's what i did -- with lots of experiments and A/B comparisons at each step:
- found a kick sound i liked on the jomox
- recorded several samples with slight variations in settings like attack, decay, harmonics, tuning - but with pitch constant
- brought them into logic, compared, contrasted, settled on 3 samples that sounded good together
- lined up phases!
- eq and other settings for the three samples:
SAMPLE A: lowpass with cutoff around 1k - level around -10db (this just added boom, it had a slow attack to begin with)
SAMPLE B: low cut at 40k, distortion with harmonics starting at 400k, light compression (30ms attack, 4ms release, 1.5:1 ratio) - level at -5 db (this one added some midrange grit)
SAMPLE C: low cut at 40k, 2 db boost at 80k, light compression (same settings) - level at 0db (this one was the main punch)
- mixed them down to one sample and loaded it onto MPC
- pitched up +20, set decay to -100, making it tighter and higher (turned out to be an absolutely crucial step, my kicks had been too _low_ for the style i'm working in, which i never would have figured out without a lot of listening).
this recipe produced a tight, high, punchy kick that _works_. out of the various tracks i referenced against, it's closest to the kick on Fatboy Slim's "Star 69". the kick does NOT have much snap or top-end and tends to disappear a little in the mix, but you _feel_ it. definitely the best i've gotten yet.
as i final touch, i mixed down a song with the new kick and doubled it, sending one track through a cranked up aphex expressor (ratio 25:1) for even more punch (first kick at 0db and the crunched one at about -8db).
thanks for the suggestions, i'm not done yet but i'm enormously relieved - now i'm in the ballpark. dancetech rules!
(btw greg's suggestion about swing setting of 62% on the MPC is killer!! i had it at about 55% and it's MUCH better for me with a little more action).
i'm happy to say things are much improved.
here's what i did -- with lots of experiments and A/B comparisons at each step:
- found a kick sound i liked on the jomox
- recorded several samples with slight variations in settings like attack, decay, harmonics, tuning - but with pitch constant
- brought them into logic, compared, contrasted, settled on 3 samples that sounded good together
- lined up phases!
- eq and other settings for the three samples:
SAMPLE A: lowpass with cutoff around 1k - level around -10db (this just added boom, it had a slow attack to begin with)
SAMPLE B: low cut at 40k, distortion with harmonics starting at 400k, light compression (30ms attack, 4ms release, 1.5:1 ratio) - level at -5 db (this one added some midrange grit)
SAMPLE C: low cut at 40k, 2 db boost at 80k, light compression (same settings) - level at 0db (this one was the main punch)
- mixed them down to one sample and loaded it onto MPC
- pitched up +20, set decay to -100, making it tighter and higher (turned out to be an absolutely crucial step, my kicks had been too _low_ for the style i'm working in, which i never would have figured out without a lot of listening).
this recipe produced a tight, high, punchy kick that _works_. out of the various tracks i referenced against, it's closest to the kick on Fatboy Slim's "Star 69". the kick does NOT have much snap or top-end and tends to disappear a little in the mix, but you _feel_ it. definitely the best i've gotten yet.
as i final touch, i mixed down a song with the new kick and doubled it, sending one track through a cranked up aphex expressor (ratio 25:1) for even more punch (first kick at 0db and the crunched one at about -8db).
thanks for the suggestions, i'm not done yet but i'm enormously relieved - now i'm in the ballpark. dancetech rules!
(btw greg's suggestion about swing setting of 62% on the MPC is killer!! i had it at about 55% and it's MUCH better for me with a little more action).
Viewing all 8 messages - View by pages of 10: 1
There are 8 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
