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Forums - Synths & synthesis
Subject: A brief review of the Q rack
Original Message Date: 04-Jun-00 @ 11:02 AM - A brief review of the Q rack
Okay, kiddies. I know you've been waitng for this one, so I'll try to do this as best I can. I'm no pro at reviews, so please bare with me if I jump around a bit.
Shipping:
the box came in fine condition,with a cable and the manual, but the manual is still for the keyboard version, and I was a bit disappointed to find that it's for the original operating system (1.09), while my unit shipped with os 2.04; big difference, and I figured the least they could do was print a hard copy of an appendix on new features and tips on using them. They didn't, but offer it all on the web, for those of us so inclined. Otherwise, the unit came in fine condition. Don't know what happened to folks who complain of shaky packaging. Bad luck I guess.
Powering up:
You just plug the unit in and it's on. Anywhere, no voltage convertor required. This is cool because it means a lot less hassle for folks who travel a lot, like me. However, it makes me a bit nervous that the thing powers up like that, as some of you, like me may often run into power problems like fluctuating voltages, and occasional to frequent cuts, and frequent cuts and surges are not the best for your unit. I know you're saying 'power conditioner' but this isn't always an option, and a manual startup just gives one a bit more security. It does remember where you were, and what you were working on when you shut the unit down, so this is convenient, although any unsaved edits are lost.
The OS:
It works quite nicely, and is typically arranged in a German style. For those of you not familiar with German synths and engineering, it's very well organized, very practical, and extremely logical. If you want to find something, for example some modulation, it may be lay in more than one place, but no mysteries. If you logically deduce what is happening, you'll very quickly find exactly what you are looking for.
The architecture of this piece is very modular and flexible, with an oscillator bank, an lfo bank, a filter routing section (which you will find is so very cool), a filter bank, amp section, arpeggiator, envelope bank, and 2 f/x banks. Then there is the Master window, where more magic takes place.
OSC:
each voice has 3 very flexible osc's. These things are amazing. In talking to one of the designers, I found that these things are designed with a bit of randomness in the algorithms that generate the wave forms, thus simulating the inconsistencies and imperfections of true analog oscillators, giving them a nice, slightly warm and greasy sound, however still very teutonic and precision. All three oscillators are capable of generating the basic wave forms (sine, tri, saw, pwm w/+-pw). Osc's 1&2 are are also capable of generating altenate waveform, arranged in the form of WAVETABLES. That's right, this thing does some MW style synthesis too, although not with nearly as many wavetables. Osc's 1&2 each have é wavetables of 127 wave forms each, and osc 1's tables are different from Osc 2's. Controlls are pretty standard for detuning and mixing into the filter, with the addition on being able to adjust the balance of which filter you want each oscillator routed to. Did I mention that the Osc's are cross-modulteable? Did someone say FM? Yes, this thing does FM too, and quite nicely. FM'd wavetable voices can sound pretty amazing. I could go on for days about each section, but I must cut this short, so let say that with this section we're off to a very good start for creating some amazing sounds. Next is the ring modulator, noise, and external input mixing, simple, effective; that's about all to say on that one.
LFO's:
3 Lfo's per voice, also cross modulatable, and capable of generating high enough fequencies to do FM as well. Standard shapes, MIDI synchable, resetable, delay optional, fade ins, fade outs, all kinds of good stuff here.
Filter Routing:
This is only one knob, but it determines whether filter 1 runs into filter 2, serially, or if they run to the amp and f/x in paralell, or in any blend of the two. This is modulatable. Nice!!!
Filters:
2 multimode filters, standard types as well as Comb filters. Gotta spit this out: comb filters are wierd but cool. They work like a chorus or a flanger, but one where you can control the oscillation. These things sound crazy when you get them self-oscillating; wierd, etherial, spaced out sounds. I've cooked up a FEW alien lullabyes with the help of these. Otherwise the filters work like most hi/lo/bp/notch filters work.
Amp:
Simple: it works. You turn it up, and the soud gets louder, and the opposite also works.
f/x
flanger, chorus, overdrive, phaser, delay, and multi f/x. It sounds okay, clean, and simple, not too complex, but okay, probably the weakest part of this unit, and still decent.
Envelopes:
4 of them. Very flexible, looping if you want, multi stage. Good stuff.
Master Window:
Okay folks this the the kicker. You have 16 virtual patch cables and almost everything is patcheable. Osc's to the filter? Sure, no problem. Env3 to the filter routing? Yep. Env 4 to to lfo 3's rate to the filter panning, as well as the amount of ring mod to filter 1, as well as f/x 2's mix, sure. Yikes.
Almosst forgot the Arpeggiator and Sequencer.
The Arp is slck, tight, very flexible, user editable, synchable, powerful.
The Sequencer is a step sequncer and controlls all kinds of params, as well as the note info. Haven't really gotten into this thing too much yet, so more on this one later. Very powerful, and use ful.
The only thing I'm really not to happy about with this thing is the pots. They are optical, and still a teensy buit buggy. I'm sure this will be fixed with later OS's, but for now, they can jump a bit or not enough sometimes. Even with it's imperfections, I'm completely sold on this unit. I hope that you all can check one of these things out some time. BTW, the sound is thick, full, and tight. On a loud system, this thing can punch, growl, bang, sing, moan, and just get plain wierd, all with extreme clarity, yet still fairly warm. Not going to review the presets. There's plenty of them, and they sound nice, but they are just ideas, scratching the surface of this beast.
So, hope this tells you a little about this thing.
Ape
Shipping:
the box came in fine condition,with a cable and the manual, but the manual is still for the keyboard version, and I was a bit disappointed to find that it's for the original operating system (1.09), while my unit shipped with os 2.04; big difference, and I figured the least they could do was print a hard copy of an appendix on new features and tips on using them. They didn't, but offer it all on the web, for those of us so inclined. Otherwise, the unit came in fine condition. Don't know what happened to folks who complain of shaky packaging. Bad luck I guess.
Powering up:
You just plug the unit in and it's on. Anywhere, no voltage convertor required. This is cool because it means a lot less hassle for folks who travel a lot, like me. However, it makes me a bit nervous that the thing powers up like that, as some of you, like me may often run into power problems like fluctuating voltages, and occasional to frequent cuts, and frequent cuts and surges are not the best for your unit. I know you're saying 'power conditioner' but this isn't always an option, and a manual startup just gives one a bit more security. It does remember where you were, and what you were working on when you shut the unit down, so this is convenient, although any unsaved edits are lost.
The OS:
It works quite nicely, and is typically arranged in a German style. For those of you not familiar with German synths and engineering, it's very well organized, very practical, and extremely logical. If you want to find something, for example some modulation, it may be lay in more than one place, but no mysteries. If you logically deduce what is happening, you'll very quickly find exactly what you are looking for.
The architecture of this piece is very modular and flexible, with an oscillator bank, an lfo bank, a filter routing section (which you will find is so very cool), a filter bank, amp section, arpeggiator, envelope bank, and 2 f/x banks. Then there is the Master window, where more magic takes place.
OSC:
each voice has 3 very flexible osc's. These things are amazing. In talking to one of the designers, I found that these things are designed with a bit of randomness in the algorithms that generate the wave forms, thus simulating the inconsistencies and imperfections of true analog oscillators, giving them a nice, slightly warm and greasy sound, however still very teutonic and precision. All three oscillators are capable of generating the basic wave forms (sine, tri, saw, pwm w/+-pw). Osc's 1&2 are are also capable of generating altenate waveform, arranged in the form of WAVETABLES. That's right, this thing does some MW style synthesis too, although not with nearly as many wavetables. Osc's 1&2 each have é wavetables of 127 wave forms each, and osc 1's tables are different from Osc 2's. Controlls are pretty standard for detuning and mixing into the filter, with the addition on being able to adjust the balance of which filter you want each oscillator routed to. Did I mention that the Osc's are cross-modulteable? Did someone say FM? Yes, this thing does FM too, and quite nicely. FM'd wavetable voices can sound pretty amazing. I could go on for days about each section, but I must cut this short, so let say that with this section we're off to a very good start for creating some amazing sounds. Next is the ring modulator, noise, and external input mixing, simple, effective; that's about all to say on that one.
LFO's:
3 Lfo's per voice, also cross modulatable, and capable of generating high enough fequencies to do FM as well. Standard shapes, MIDI synchable, resetable, delay optional, fade ins, fade outs, all kinds of good stuff here.
Filter Routing:
This is only one knob, but it determines whether filter 1 runs into filter 2, serially, or if they run to the amp and f/x in paralell, or in any blend of the two. This is modulatable. Nice!!!
Filters:
2 multimode filters, standard types as well as Comb filters. Gotta spit this out: comb filters are wierd but cool. They work like a chorus or a flanger, but one where you can control the oscillation. These things sound crazy when you get them self-oscillating; wierd, etherial, spaced out sounds. I've cooked up a FEW alien lullabyes with the help of these. Otherwise the filters work like most hi/lo/bp/notch filters work.
Amp:
Simple: it works. You turn it up, and the soud gets louder, and the opposite also works.
f/x
flanger, chorus, overdrive, phaser, delay, and multi f/x. It sounds okay, clean, and simple, not too complex, but okay, probably the weakest part of this unit, and still decent.
Envelopes:
4 of them. Very flexible, looping if you want, multi stage. Good stuff.
Master Window:
Okay folks this the the kicker. You have 16 virtual patch cables and almost everything is patcheable. Osc's to the filter? Sure, no problem. Env3 to the filter routing? Yep. Env 4 to to lfo 3's rate to the filter panning, as well as the amount of ring mod to filter 1, as well as f/x 2's mix, sure. Yikes.
Almosst forgot the Arpeggiator and Sequencer.
The Arp is slck, tight, very flexible, user editable, synchable, powerful.
The Sequencer is a step sequncer and controlls all kinds of params, as well as the note info. Haven't really gotten into this thing too much yet, so more on this one later. Very powerful, and use ful.
The only thing I'm really not to happy about with this thing is the pots. They are optical, and still a teensy buit buggy. I'm sure this will be fixed with later OS's, but for now, they can jump a bit or not enough sometimes. Even with it's imperfections, I'm completely sold on this unit. I hope that you all can check one of these things out some time. BTW, the sound is thick, full, and tight. On a loud system, this thing can punch, growl, bang, sing, moan, and just get plain wierd, all with extreme clarity, yet still fairly warm. Not going to review the presets. There's plenty of them, and they sound nice, but they are just ideas, scratching the surface of this beast.
So, hope this tells you a little about this thing.
Ape
Message 11/33 07-Jun-00 @ 11:38 AM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
peabreu
Posts: 3
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>maybe I should ditch buying an XT for a Q?
No, I would not...they are totaly different synths. The Q has a simple approach to wavetable synthesis not nearly as powerful as the MWxt....I would never ditch my XT to keep the Q...never !!!!
No, I would not...they are totaly different synths. The Q has a simple approach to wavetable synthesis not nearly as powerful as the MWxt....I would never ditch my XT to keep the Q...never !!!!
Message 12/33 07-Jun-00 @ 12:41 PM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
hey pea..
I'm torn between getting an XT or a Q. what should I do? I already own a couple of VA's in my arsenal..
I'm torn between getting an XT or a Q. what should I do? I already own a couple of VA's in my arsenal..
Message 13/33 07-Jun-00 @ 04:18 PM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
Peabreu would know more about the XT than me, maybe. I've messed with it a little, and it seems to work fairly similarly to my MW1, so I say that there are similarities, but Peabreu is right, it is more powerful. As for the wavetable synthesis, it's different than the MW series. You can do different things with the oscillators.
Again, the Q seems to be better for more utilitarian synthesis, while the MW's have a sound totally their own. If you already have several VA's, then maybe the XT is in order, then later the Q. See, both are very unique and characteristic sounding synths. You can get unworldly sounds out of both, but they are different beasts. I'm immensely happy with my Q, and have always loved my MW.
The bugs? It does glitch up from time to time. I think at the moment, it has memory allocation issues, so when you pull up a patch, and edit the fuck out of it, it has a little trouble pulling up other patches sometimes, for example you edit a sound, then scroll through the list to find other sounds, and you'll see the name show up several times as you scroll through, so you have to recall the patches in other number slots to get at them. A bit of a pain in the ass, but manageable.
Sometimes you'll have a very hard time trying to find a modulation routing, but that is usually user error. So far, the knobs seem to bahave. You have to realize that they are velocity sensitive, so if you turn them fast, your values will jump. Also, sometimes you'll get pops if your values are too different for some oscillator crossmodulations, but even with these little bits, it's quite manageable to work aroud them. Live, the thing sounds un-fucking-believeable. So does the MW. Just the Q, an ER-1, and some effects has been absolutely killer for tripped-out electro/funk. The shit that the mags talked, I haven't heard. Which mags reviewed the rack with the latest OS? I'd be curious to see the comments? Are these the people that kneeled in almighty worship of that shitbox jp8080? If that's the case, large spoonfulls of salt are in order.
Ape
Again, the Q seems to be better for more utilitarian synthesis, while the MW's have a sound totally their own. If you already have several VA's, then maybe the XT is in order, then later the Q. See, both are very unique and characteristic sounding synths. You can get unworldly sounds out of both, but they are different beasts. I'm immensely happy with my Q, and have always loved my MW.
The bugs? It does glitch up from time to time. I think at the moment, it has memory allocation issues, so when you pull up a patch, and edit the fuck out of it, it has a little trouble pulling up other patches sometimes, for example you edit a sound, then scroll through the list to find other sounds, and you'll see the name show up several times as you scroll through, so you have to recall the patches in other number slots to get at them. A bit of a pain in the ass, but manageable.
Sometimes you'll have a very hard time trying to find a modulation routing, but that is usually user error. So far, the knobs seem to bahave. You have to realize that they are velocity sensitive, so if you turn them fast, your values will jump. Also, sometimes you'll get pops if your values are too different for some oscillator crossmodulations, but even with these little bits, it's quite manageable to work aroud them. Live, the thing sounds un-fucking-believeable. So does the MW. Just the Q, an ER-1, and some effects has been absolutely killer for tripped-out electro/funk. The shit that the mags talked, I haven't heard. Which mags reviewed the rack with the latest OS? I'd be curious to see the comments? Are these the people that kneeled in almighty worship of that shitbox jp8080? If that's the case, large spoonfulls of salt are in order.
Ape
Message 15/33 08-Jun-00 @ 04:47 AM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
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I just read the Q review from Keyboard Mag. Yaaaaaaaaawn. Pongoid has a far better run down. I love how in the review it seems that the reviewer can't talk about a feature without pointing out that "the OS isn't complete" or "it costs to much" and then goes on to say that you could "spend less money and get the ______ but the Q sounds really nice and in it's own class, we should give it an award"????????
Message 16/33 08-Jun-00 @ 08:28 AM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
Please keep in mind the diplomacy factor. Here, Kilo has been very Gracious in allowing us to speak openly without fear of retribution. We can be honest here and not worry about offending sponsors with ads on the site. That's a big factor in these reviews these days. How can a mag possibly be completely honest and unbiased in a test/review on a product from a company that is paying thousands of $/£/yen to the publisher to sell the product through advertisement in the same issue? People don't have to deal with that here. I hope K sticks this review somewhere good. I also hope that more people start doing these reviews of all kinds of pieces. Even things like Emax's and dx100's. It's actually quite fun to do, and a good test of how well you know gear. It makes you appreciate all that goes into making a tool for someone to be creative with, and how much some people care about trying to help vs. taking your money. That shit's important, and it seems more and more people are losing sight of such things. Think about it.
Ape
Ape
Message 17/33 08-Jun-00 @ 09:16 AM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
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To illuminate your point further. I noticed that in the same issue they reviewed the Yamaha A5000. I took a glance at the Cons section and
notice that it was very meager e.g. Yes the SCSI connection is amazingly slow and it has more bugs than a amazon forest , but who cares because it can do________ . If you take a look at the Dance Tech Yamaha section and see what the A5000 users have to say. Well?????...............
notice that it was very meager e.g. Yes the SCSI connection is amazingly slow and it has more bugs than a amazon forest , but who cares because it can do________ . If you take a look at the Dance Tech Yamaha section and see what the A5000 users have to say. Well?????...............
Message 18/33 08-Jun-00 @ 09:23 AM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
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Sorry can't stop myself. 1 more thing I thought was funny. They said that the Q was in there "Top Ten V.A. issue". Fawking yay! How many V.A.'s are there really, Ten?-Alex
Message 19/33 08-Jun-00 @ 09:36 AM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
peabreu
Posts: 3
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Junior v
As Pongoid pointed out, I think you may be better going to a MWxt if you already have other VAs, but keep in mind that the Q goes much further than typical "analog emulation" (and in some points its open to debate if it is really the best in analog emulation...I am still not a big fan of its LPfilter...strange but I prefer the LPfilter of the MWxt in the low end behaviour, or the virus LPF cut off behaviour..not its resonance, there the Q LPF is still the best digital I have ever used or listened).
With the Q you can easily go into strange digital territory (probably its best strenght.
Pongoid, the MW2 compared with the MW has the advantage of a much better interface (and that makes a significant difference) and a much wider synthesis range BUT you get analog filters in the MW1 and that makes all the difference, also I find that the MW1 still has (can have) a digital gritty edge that you can not emulate on the all digital MW2, even using "time quantize" and "Aliasing" on the MW2.
I think that the MWxt is a more "quick" rewarding synth...on the Q I think you have to "work " to get it up to do the Q power some real justice. THe modulations are there to be used.
About the OS problems Pongoid mentioned, I really have to tell you that I never had those problems in more than 6 months of day by day work (not to say that it is perfect...it is not..many things should be changed, eg, other LPF, better handling of the Modulation matrix interface because with this tiny display it gets ridiculous working with the MM, too much trouble back and forward-still not as bad as working with the virus..ouch...awfull).
Note that I have the Keyboard version, and the problems mentioned by Pongoid may be due to any kind of glitch of the OS with the recent Qrack...anyway, I bet that Waldorf already knows about it and will be fixing it...one of this days. Yes they do fix the problems, not as fast and rgularly as Access but they will do it, its defnitly a case of waiting and I am shure they still have a lot of surprises in the Q ;)
As Pongoid pointed out, I think you may be better going to a MWxt if you already have other VAs, but keep in mind that the Q goes much further than typical "analog emulation" (and in some points its open to debate if it is really the best in analog emulation...I am still not a big fan of its LPfilter...strange but I prefer the LPfilter of the MWxt in the low end behaviour, or the virus LPF cut off behaviour..not its resonance, there the Q LPF is still the best digital I have ever used or listened).
With the Q you can easily go into strange digital territory (probably its best strenght.
Pongoid, the MW2 compared with the MW has the advantage of a much better interface (and that makes a significant difference) and a much wider synthesis range BUT you get analog filters in the MW1 and that makes all the difference, also I find that the MW1 still has (can have) a digital gritty edge that you can not emulate on the all digital MW2, even using "time quantize" and "Aliasing" on the MW2.
I think that the MWxt is a more "quick" rewarding synth...on the Q I think you have to "work " to get it up to do the Q power some real justice. THe modulations are there to be used.
About the OS problems Pongoid mentioned, I really have to tell you that I never had those problems in more than 6 months of day by day work (not to say that it is perfect...it is not..many things should be changed, eg, other LPF, better handling of the Modulation matrix interface because with this tiny display it gets ridiculous working with the MM, too much trouble back and forward-still not as bad as working with the virus..ouch...awfull).
Note that I have the Keyboard version, and the problems mentioned by Pongoid may be due to any kind of glitch of the OS with the recent Qrack...anyway, I bet that Waldorf already knows about it and will be fixing it...one of this days. Yes they do fix the problems, not as fast and rgularly as Access but they will do it, its defnitly a case of waiting and I am shure they still have a lot of surprises in the Q ;)
Message 20/33 09-Jun-00 @ 07:19 AM - RE: A brief review of the Q rack
I suspect you are right about the bugs being because it is the rack version. I'd never even heard OS 2.04 mentoined on the Waldorf site, just that OS 2.03 fixes things. You're right about the digital sounds being a strength, but with a little tweeking and a bit of drive here and there, you can get some pretty decent response from the filters in the Q. Yes, the envelope shape is a bit odd , and it would be nice if Waldorf offered a couple of different slopes. Still, cool bird even with the bugs. Can't wait for the OS update. Hope more manufacturers start perusing this site.
Ape
Ape
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