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Subject: What next...

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Original Message 1/54 25-Oct-00 @ 06:41 PM - What next...?

trev

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Now that I've got a decent goddamn job I'm thinking of buying some new gear. At the moment all I have is a mixer, PC with AWE32 (oh, shite), novation bassStation, TB303, Zoom rfx2000, two homebodged 303 clones and other stuff not worth mentioning. Anyone got any suggestions for what to get next?

I really want something to use for percussion and stuff, and maybe a better sampler... I'm considering getting a second hand Yamaha A3000 and using this for drum samples. Apparently it has fx as standard? Is this machine any good?

What about the Electribes for a cheap drum machine? Or are these machines crap?

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Message 2/54 25-Oct-00 @ 07:09 PM - RE: What next...

BWPT

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Yeah Its the dogs danglies as far as im concerned.It's really easy (easier than the akais) to assign different samples to a different note on a keyboard so you can map out loadsa nice drum sounds.Its got wicked effects that you can sit there and mess about with for hours on end. The electribe drums has a wicked drum synth ,but unfortunatley you can only make four synth noises and the other sounds are samples (pretty lame 909 hihats ,clap and i dunno what the cymbal is)Overall ,good noises but quite limited.I'd go for a drumstation personally and some other drum boxes aswell (the roland r8 is a nice one sonicly)but then you wouldnt be able to sample..shit, tough decision.

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Message 3/54 25-Oct-00 @ 10:22 PM - RE: What next...

oldskool

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Trev, good choices, A3k you can get from andertons for �425, get a zipdrive for it (�129 for a 250mb from maplins) and some memory (normal EDO simms) and its a killer machine, easy to use and well powerful, nothing can touch it at that price!. ER1 - excellent with 303, it can do long and boomy or tight and punchy, fucking awesome box for the money (�175 secondhand, �249 new). I bought both and never regret it. Nuff said?

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Message 4/54 26-Oct-00 @ 01:22 AM - RE: What next...

ReZo 2k

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Heh, I just thought that was funny that you said the ER-1 is limited and then you said to get a Drum Station. I hope your talking about polyphony and not versatlity.

Pete

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Message 5/54 26-Oct-00 @ 01:45 AM - RE: What next...

aaron

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the er-1 doesnt have as much control, indiv outs, and sounds better!

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Message 6/54 26-Oct-00 @ 03:10 AM - RE: What next...

hank

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How bout a modular.Analogue solutions has some inexpensive high quality modules.Or an MPC so you can beat your beats.

-

ES-1 appears to be a sampling drum macine for all intensive purposes.snare on the er is a bit weak for my taste.If you MAIL ME BOUT THOSE BOXES I'll give you the key to a nice MPC imitation 808 track.It has 777 and Ea-1 too.

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Message 7/54 26-Oct-00 @ 11:18 PM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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the akai s-2000's go for cheap, no
good display, but can use a software
editior like mesa.

The er-1 is a nice drummachine.
Also check this out, this might be
cool...

http://www.machinedrum.com/

909

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Message 8/54 26-Oct-00 @ 11:21 PM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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Message 9/54 27-Oct-00 @ 04:08 AM - RE: What next...

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I hope it aint SID powered.Pretty

-

I like drum machines.

Use Netscape on that G4 to avoid echo

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Message 10/54 27-Oct-00 @ 08:57 AM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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he! he! i hope its not sid powered
too! maybe this time they actually
used something "more high-tech" for
the sound engine, like a 286
processor!

;-0

909 Inc.

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Message 11/54 27-Oct-00 @ 09:05 AM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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Another funny thing, a list member
(rezo) and me were in SF, after
demoing the Sid Station, we walked
to get a brew, then on the side of this
office building, one of us said, "look,
its the sidstation"! it was the fuking
alarm or some call box on the
doorway!

Yeah, everybody thinks we're weird
for having gear with tons of blinking
lights and shit, what will people think
if they see us playing with some box
that looks like a alarm from the side
of the building, they'll think we're fukin
psychos. They'll call the cops and tell
them we've been stealing alarms
from office buldings.

909

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Message 12/54 27-Oct-00 @ 10:28 AM - RE: What next...

BWPT

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Yeah i did mean polyphony. The ER-1 IS a wicked drum machine but it's just a shame they didn't make it with,say,another 4 drum synths.

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Message 13/54 27-Oct-00 @ 05:10 PM - RE: What next...

ReZo 2k

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Heheh! I remember that 909 inc. Hehe! That shit was hella funny! I swear, it looked dead on like the Sid Station.

We need to head back to the city!

BTW, don't forget the vodka and Red Bull! Hehe, you almost blew chunks!

Pete

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Message 14/54 27-Oct-00 @ 10:25 PM - RE: What next...

oldskool

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The Sidstation is a pretty weird but cool synth, but prolly not much use to most ppl as it is too unusual sounding, having said that it is also capable of cheese as that awful "Zombie Nation" track thats in the chart demonstrates.
I use mine for weird spacey fx loops and alien percussion sounds mostly but then I like weird synths.

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Message 15/54 27-Oct-00 @ 10:44 PM - RE: What next...

trev

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I'm now seriously considering a decent analogue modelling synth, such as the Roland JP8080, Korg MS2000R, maybe the little Nova if I get one secondhand.
Maybe then a cheap sampler, or a Korg Electribes for drums. The electribes range looks a pretty good bit of kit and I never hear bad about them.

Heh... I couln't believe it when I saw an ad for that Sidstation. Yeah it's a funny looking little machine with... er.. a dirty great big numeric keypad ;-)

In the meantime I'm gonna splash about 200GBP on parts to develop this 303 clone. The synth will wait.
I'll set up a website sometime...

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Message 16/54 28-Oct-00 @ 04:55 AM - RE: What next...

cocomox

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If you're looking for modelling, I can tell you that the Virus is one badass machine...had it for a few weeks, and NO complaints here, it's absolutely amazing.

-Nick

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Message 17/54 28-Oct-00 @ 07:17 AM - RE: What next...

Analog turkey

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SID cool for synth,CRAP for percussion.

-

Details later my ass I WANT MY details.Sid Station is a surplus callbox/door thingy.I used to program the SID in my C64 and you could do some weird shit w/ it including bad video game sounds I think I want a SID station now that I think about it.Doesn't a C128D have a sid?or is it different?I found a 128d for cheap and I've got speech and synth software,+ a sequencer somewhere and alot of games.

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Message 18/54 28-Oct-00 @ 09:37 AM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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i have a question for all the heads
here. There is this dude in my area
that has a great shape jupiter 6 that
he wants to trade. I have a pair of
used 1200's (with stanton 680's) and
a 4 ch. dj mixer of Italian make (eso)
and a foamed coffin (not the cheapy,
but heavy duty).

What do you guys/girlies think of this
trade? all my shit tallies up to about
950 us dollars, JP6 isn't worth that
much! even mint! They go for like 700
to 1000 !!!

I havent' used my turntables in a
while, most of the time the're parked
against the wall in a coffin, perhaps I
could use a JP6? I already have a
pro1, mg-1, pulse+,fs1r, pulsar card
juno 106, 303 etc...

I' m really stuck between a rock and
a hard place on this trade!
Suggestions???????????

-909

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Message 19/54 28-Oct-00 @ 06:13 PM - RE: What next...

trev

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oh, anyone here used the Supernova at all? How does the little Nova or Supernova compare with the Virus b and the jp8080? It's a tie between these machines at the moment.

/ trev

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Message 20/54 28-Oct-00 @ 07:24 PM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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Forget about the JP-6. Save the money and invest in a JP-8000. I already miss mine and will soon buy back a JP-8080.

You won't be dissapointed, it's one of the best synths out there.

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Message 21/54 28-Oct-00 @ 08:34 PM - RE: What next...

BWPT

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My mate just bought a virus and he says it's awesome, say no more.

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Message 22/54 28-Oct-00 @ 09:58 PM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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Hmmm. that's not helping....
909

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Message 23/54 28-Oct-00 @ 10:27 PM - RE: What next...

oldskool

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909 inc: Do the trade! A JP6 is a classic synth that is only ever going to increase in value, make sure all the voices sound b4 you swap though.

Trev : Wanna buy my mint Nova for �500?

RE the Sidstation, if you have not used one you will probably not appreciate how good a synth it is, it is far more than an alarm box with a sidchip in. It is a programmers dream and I would NEVER sell mine, it has much more character than all these motorola 56303 based VA's.

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Message 24/54 28-Oct-00 @ 11:03 PM - RE: What next...

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No shit do the trade if not hook me up so I can buy it from him.I'm sure the SID wipes all over the VAs I hate those.But it is an Doorbox w/ a SID chip and some crazy ass sounds I'm ordering one NOW.I looked at the parameter list and Holy Chickenlegs Batman That thing is a SECRET weapon If I ever saw one.I love SID.Uhh does the C128D have a SID in it?

-

SID mkes me trip.I still want some beatbox details though.

Gobble Gobble

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Message 25/54 28-Oct-00 @ 11:24 PM - RE: What next...

hah

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i just bought me a surplus callbox.weeeee!

-

Now here's some digital I can live with.

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Message 26/54 28-Oct-00 @ 11:44 PM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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Don't do it...go for the JP-8000 instead. It's more flexible and reliable.

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Message 27/54 29-Oct-00 @ 01:34 AM - RE: What next...

trev

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oldskool, why are you selling your Nova? in all honesty, is there anything about it that you don't like?

And which one would you people recommend: a s/h supernova rack, or the virus b?

trev

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Message 28/54 29-Oct-00 @ 02:12 AM - RE: What next...

hank

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If you're talkin to me I like the inflexible that way when I bend it others have a hard time of figuring out how.If you're talkin to Mr.Incorporated I'll take the inflexible and unreliable beast.

-

I want momentary LFO weeeee!

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Message 29/54 29-Oct-00 @ 04:19 PM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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If you're into heavy pads, you should seriously consider the JP-8000. The super saw oscillator is specific to only the JP-8000 and produces the thickest pads on earth.

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Message 30/54 30-Oct-00 @ 03:48 AM - RE: What next...

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I always thought maxie made the heaviest pads at least the tv says they won't leak.If you want PADS heavier than a Mack truck get a Oberheim OBXa.Pick up a midi kit for it or at least a DSX if you wanna do more than sample it.The sounds and the keyboard are heavy.

-

It'got wood sides and a hinged top w/more circuitry on each voice card than any so called VA synth does in the whole box.They have Autotune too.Plus some trims on the out side or are those for panning voice channels I forgot,Influx?

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Message 31/54 30-Oct-00 @ 08:27 AM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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He! He!
Try layering a pro-1, mg-1, dss-1 and
a juno 106 for pads and stacks!

Fuk! do I really want a JP6? I'm not
too much into that analog hype, but I
know for sure, that a jp-6 will be
worth a lot more vs. a jp-8000 in 5
years, even I though I would love both
of them, but you know... usually you
can't have it all...

909 Inc.

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Message 32/54 31-Oct-00 @ 12:01 AM - RE: What next...

oldskool

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Trev, I'm selling my Nova because I have grown tired of the sounds it makes, all these VA's are getting so samey, so boring, so predictable. The technology is the same in all of them. I sold a Prophecy, a Virus, and a JP8000 for all the same reasons. The only VA I will never sell is my Nord Micro Modular, well actually I would but only if I got a Nord Modular Rack\Keyboard.

My advice? Don't get a VA, get something like an MKS70, JP6 or even better a real voltage controlled modular, I have been using all different types of synths in studios all over the place and trust me - ANALOG RULES. But then you didn't really need me to tell you that, did you?

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Message 33/54 31-Oct-00 @ 06:55 AM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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well,

it's coming down to the 11th hour, I
will know if I'm the new owner of a
JP6 witin 24 hours!

Whoo hoo!

909

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Message 34/54 01-Nov-00 @ 03:09 AM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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I said I would never get rid of my JP-8000, but I had to trade it for the Z1. Now I want the JP-8000 back like there's no tomorrow. I can't live without it's lush pads!

And believe it or not, the MS2000 sounds hella like the JP-8000. Might just get that to start off with.

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Message 35/54 01-Nov-00 @ 08:28 PM - RE: What next...

Local Boy

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Thats cos they use the same dsp.

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Message 36/54 01-Nov-00 @ 08:54 PM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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The analogue modeling engines on the JP-8000 and MS2000 are completely different...

The JP-8000 is based on the latest Roland engine while the MS2000 is based on a refined version of MOSS.

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Message 37/54 01-Nov-00 @ 10:08 PM - RE: What next...

d.s.PROCESSOR

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the quake and doom engines are different... don't they both run on my Pentium _PROCESSOR_?!

though i'm not sure that the same dsp chip = same sound... wouldn't come down to the algorithms?

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Message 38/54 02-Nov-00 @ 08:46 AM - RE: What next...

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Get the JUPITER screw the Virtual use somethin REAL.

-;) Worth more in the future?Uhh It isn't worth shit to me unless it makes great sounds and helps my expression.

I'm tellin ya momentary LFO will MELT the brainz of the headz if used correctly.Good luck on the trade.

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Message 39/54 02-Nov-00 @ 09:55 PM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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The analogue modeling engines on the JP-8000 and MS2000 are completely different...

The JP-8000 is based on the latest Roland engine while the MS2000 is based on a refined version of MOSS.

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Message 40/54 02-Nov-00 @ 10:41 PM - RE: What next...

Local Boy

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True the modelling techniques used are different but the characteristics of the dsp will be exactly the same in regards to s\n ratio, bandwidth, thd, etc. For example say Korg engineers optimized the code to get the best possible filter response over the audio range, if Roland engineers did the same but using totally different techniques the end result would be exactly the same as the Korg algorithms. The only real differences are the features that each manufacturer chooses to implement and the way in which they interact with eachother. I think one VA is plenty in any setup and then add some real analog and perhaps some FM or Additive synthesis for a richer sonic pallette.

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Message 41/54 03-Nov-00 @ 08:40 PM - RE: What next...

um... can you read?!

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silver droid -- the engines are _software_. just like the quake3 engine, etc. (yes, i know (say) car engines are hardware, but...) the dsp (digital signal _PROCESSOR_) is hardware. i'm glad you can read and regurgitate what it says on the boxes, but... maybe try understanding what goes on.

two units can have the same dsp BUT different sounds/etc. due to different software implementations. the same dsp = the same limitations, BUT that doesn't have to mean the same sound... i.e the virus uses dsp osc. models (more digital-y) whereas waldorf apparently model the entire vco (have yet to hear em, but...) which i'm assuming includes shit like drift etc.

so it depends on how the engineers worked around the hardware limitations, and how they implement the features (i.e on a virus the 3rd osc. is basically a "copy" of the second, which i'm sure takes less power than calculating an entirely independant osc... they just use the calculated osc. 2 and fuck with it a bit (i.e detune or whatever) to get osc. 3. but on novas the 3rd osc. is independant, just like the first two...)

so "The analogue modeling engines on the JP-8000 and MS2000 are completely different...

The JP-8000 is based on the latest Roland engine while the MS2000 is based on a refined version of MOSS.
" makes no difference... it has nothing to do with what anyone else is discussing. what's wrong with you?

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Message 42/54 04-Nov-00 @ 11:08 AM - RE: What next...

909 Inc.

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I think it comes down to personal
taste and what type of "sound" you
are looking for. If you have either the
jp-8000, or a ms-2000 or a virus or
what ever, and it allows you to be
creative then go for it.
Its like paint, red might be red, but its
different from different
manufacturers.

How about comparing a Virus (A or
B) vs. a JP-8000 and a MS-2000?

first of all , I havent tried any of them
personally, but when I get back from
europe, I think I'll get the ms-2000
and see what that's all about. I really
would like to see places that let you
rent a synth for a month and get to
know it. For example the Pro-1, sure
it might be simple, but I can get lost
in that fucker! Just latch the
arpergiator and lose reality! I love my
pro-1!

Another thing comes to mind, you
know that whole analog/digital
quarrel (mac vs. ps! he! he!) but I
think the more you mess with
analogs, the more you see (hear) the
difference! The jupiter 6 trade went
sour, but in the 10 minutes of
messing with it , I was pretty
impressed, then I pressed the
"unison" button! whoa! 12 osc,
stacked and detuned to your liking!
wow!
ok, I'll rant a bit... I would like to have,
a good mean monosynth, that would
probably be the pro one, this is one
mean mofo! Sure, the pulse is nice
with 3 osc, and a nice (read more
easy to use) mod matrix, but I think
the filter in the pro 1 sounds better.
There is the cv/gate issue, but that's
not a disadvantage considering how
good it sounds.
Then, and nice poly analog, I think I'd
go for the jupiter 6 or a prophet 5, but
with the pro 1 you sort of get one
voice of the prophet 5.
Then a nice virtual like a virus, or a
ms-2000 or a jp-8000, but a lot of
people I talked to said that the
jp-8000 is somewhat limited in the
sound capabilites. After downloading
like 30 megs of mp3 samples of the
virus, I'd probably get that.
Also for good measure, I'd throw in
there either a micowave xt or a
microQ, Waldorf does have it's
sound, it shows in the pulse.
Oh yeah, don't forget the yamaha
fs1r, FM synthesis with knobs! this
synth is clean sounding , with good
effects, a fuking bitch to use,
especially when you're in the mix and
had a few beers and you try to
understand it's performance mode
with midi! whoa! Better to read the
shitty manual before downing those
sierra nevada's!
I think thats it! If you read this far you
are probably ready to agree with me
or talk shit! =)
Yes... don't forget the 303, but that
doesn't count, since its a monosynth
made by aliens! He! He!
And Rezo2k.... don't sell yours!!!

909

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Message 43/54 05-Nov-00 @ 10:08 AM - RE: What next...

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You can "rent" a piece of gear for a month from a music superstore for the time of the return period.Just take it back and get a full refund and whammo you've just rented your gear for nothing at all.I do it all the time.

-

Try it at home before you "buy" it

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Message 44/54 05-Nov-00 @ 11:37 PM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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I don't think you can do that. When I bought my Clavia Nord Rack 2, I was charged $200.00 with the refund when I returned it 3 weeks later.

= > "um... can you read?! "

Choose a size which suits you the best, and suck a penis.

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Message 45/54 06-Nov-00 @ 03:51 AM - RE: What next...

ReZo 2k

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You must of went in there with "Sucker" on your forehead. You got burned dude. At Guitar Center you can buy any hardware, except turntable needles, and return it within 30 days at no charge with no questions asked. 909 and I have done this plenty of times. You should of said "Fuck you!" to your music store. Thats jacked.

Pete

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Message 46/54 06-Nov-00 @ 10:49 PM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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They told me it wasn't their policy and were doing me a special favour by accepting the return. I had to practically haggle them to take it back, cause they initially wanted to give me a credit amount or let me swap for another synth.

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Message 47/54 06-Nov-00 @ 11:42 PM - RE: What next...

Local Boy

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I find that if you approach the store with a baseball bat in hand they seem to be far more flexible on their refund "policy", you were fucked over dude. Thats bullshit, you should have demanded a full refund, if you get a bit hostile they normally relent.

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Message 48/54 07-Nov-00 @ 12:37 AM - RE: What next...

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You got fucked.Baseball bat?nope i've said this a couple of times.When in doubt promptly mail some roadkill or destroy the ventilation system of the building or you could take an ac generator to the building and splice into the phone line and run 117 volts through a 4 volt system makes retribution sweet go in the next day and look at all the phones and modems you destroyed.If you hate your neigh bors when you move you can do the same thing right in your house just plug the phone line into the wall and whammo you killed everything back to the switcher on the corner.

-

Destroy your opressors or assholes in general.

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Message 49/54 07-Nov-00 @ 12:42 AM - RE: What next...

btw

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i've "rented" at least 200 electronic devices w/o a hitch the whole time.The only time I had a problem w/ a return I went to the police station and asked the cop where to get a permit to demonstrate and within 15 minutes the store mgr called me up apologizing for any inconveinence i may have suffered.

-

Cops usually have a good relationship w/ stores in their precinct so word travels fast if you know where to drop it.

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Message 50/54 07-Nov-00 @ 08:11 PM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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So, what you're saying in essence is that even though I had my Clavia Nord Rack II for a full month, I could have returned it without having to pay a cent?

That doesn't make sense...how the hell would these music shops make money if everyone just constantly buys stuff and returns it for a full refund?

I wanna get rid of my Behringer MX802A so I can get the next level of Eurorack (16 something or rather). I've had it for like 3 months, can I return that shit too?

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Message 51/54 07-Nov-00 @ 08:32 PM - RE: What next...

swanofnever

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i think what we're seeing here is canadian consumer vs. us consumer.

try long&mcquade (i think there's one in mont.), the one on t.o rents out gear pretty cheap, not sure if they'll rent the _latest_ synths though. but it should be under $100 for a month.

oh, and i've got a behringer MX1604A... you can get them new for around $210 US. my advice would be try to find a used mackie CR1604 (i've got one of those too), they usually go for around $300-400 US. you get higher quality (more headroom, better mic pres, better fader scaling, etc.), 6 mono aux. outs and 4 stereo aux. ins (MX has 2 mono out and 2 mono in), 8ch. of insert (i.e how the hell are you going to use a compressor/etc. on a behringer? you can't -- NO inserts on MX), trim pots on all ch. (MX only has input trims on the 4 mono ch.) etc. etc. etc.

no idea about the vlz, but i've got an old-school one and it's REALLY good. not that the behringer's crap, but...

p.s - why the fuck would you return a nord rack II!?

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Message 52/54 07-Nov-00 @ 09:59 PM - RE: What next...

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It all depends on store policy on how long you can keep a piece of gear before your refund period is up.You usually have to have a reason to return it I usually say this thing sucks and spew out technical dribble the salesman and mgr are too stupid to know anything about.keep in mind I spend BIG BUCKS at these stores so they usually play by my rules to keep me on as a customer.i have been known to cause a store or 2 to change the return policy because i keep track of how long i've had a piece of gear and if i'm "borrowing" it i just show up on the last day of return.Just don't damage the equipment,write on manuals and remove any screen cover plastic if you want to return it.In the US just breaking the seal on the box isn't a good enough excuse for them not to take it back.CAUTION do not try this w/ mom n pop music stores only mega chains.

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Try it at home because you don't know how it sounds in a mix until you've used it in one.

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Message 53/54 10-Nov-00 @ 01:18 AM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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Swanofnever,

What do you mean how am I gonna use a compressor on the MX's? I'm using a Behringer Virtualizer via aux sends and stuff and I don't seem to have a problem. Would not a compressor work in the same fashion (I have no experience with compressors btw...)?

With regards to the Clavia Nord Rack II, I found it pointless to keep. The analogue quality was good, I liked the hands on control. But to not have effects and such a limited spectrum of sound, it was not worth keeping for $2,000.00 CAD. So, I brought it back and a few months later got my TB-303 and JP-8000.

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Message 54/54 10-Nov-00 @ 01:19 AM - RE: What next...

Silver Droid

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This topic is getting too big, no one continue the discussion here. Go to: "Mixers and Nord Rack 2"

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