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Subject: K - How's hoontech?

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Original Message 1/117 15-Aug-00 @ 02:57 AM - K - How's hoontech?

ville

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Well... everything still going well? I think i'll have mine tomorrow...
Few quick comments. It's 250 quid here, which is even cheaper than thomann.de (anyone used thomann?)

thanx

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Message 2/117 15-Aug-00 @ 09:28 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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where is 'here' ?? - ah Finland !! - how's the reindeer ?

- hey by the way mate - your music rocks on the cd...

still going strong the hoontech - the only negative comment is that the cheap-assed card monitor out is a bit hissy - but you dont have to use that as you can patch across to the dedicated rack outs if you like or monitor off DAT in standby via the dig out. Best of all about the Hoontech is the ability to use the rack as a mixer, bringing up to 8 in's (4 x stereo) to the VST mixer alongside your audio & vst instruments for a total integration... and you can eq them in realtime and add realtime fx - so it's till going strong although i have got some VGA card interference, if i move the windows when playback is happening i get glitches, but as i say, it is a HORRENDOUS video card that will be replaced, it doesnt effect the music really tho when working. Overall, the quality for the price is very good - I cant say if it's good with logic yet tho until i get the new P2 box to test it on -

By the way - if anyone in London/uk wants a setup - we can supply warranteed new machines with the hoontech installed and all working with s/w of your choice ready to go -(but as yet i can only actually recommend vst until i get to try Logic 4.5) -

the machines are minitower or rack mounted - 128mb ram, 30gb drive, p3/700, 32mb graphics to play decent games if you want to (the hoontech also supports 4 speaker sound) & win98 - choice of screens - taxan, iiyama or adi (i recommend adi myself which i think are better than the iiyama's & you get a 3 year replacement warranty on the adi screens) - - if you want more inputs it'll go up to 40 IN's/Out's or you can add an ADAT option soon.- also we can supply with cdr, backup drive etc. mail me if you want one.

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Message 3/117 15-Aug-00 @ 08:08 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

dizzy

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Right I want one of these. Anyone know where the cheapest place is? I was all set to go for thomann (�278 currently)until this 250 squids post here. Any UK places doing it for the same?
K- do you know the latency on Reaktor and does it have giga drivers?
Your comments on it are always welcome, you've been a big help in my long search for The Right One, thx mate.

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Message 4/117 16-Aug-00 @ 01:50 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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I hate all those "specialist stores" especially if they are little bit bigger than average. (small ones have really good service)
I called them yesterday and asked if they got the card allready and how much is it: "wait i'll check... yep. 250 quid for the whole package"
I went there with cash in my pocket and fuck them... they didn't have the card only the box. "... in two weeks" was the answer. and another bloke said it'll cost �300. I called the importing department (same company is importing them) and they said they'll cost �350.

And everybody gave me bad face (or voice) like i was asking too much.

thomann's price is about 265 plus shipping. I'm getting it from them. can't wait.

Thank you so much k. Which tracks u think had most potential? so i could concentrate mastering them. I've really haven't gotten much feedback from anyone. except few friends who are into heavymetal :] one DJ has been playing some of stu ff few times... but i didn't do survey

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Message 5/117 16-Aug-00 @ 02:01 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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Reindeers are great. Best to wear rubberboots so you can stick their rear feet into them: they can't get away. I've allways felt some closeness to Welsh... wonder why

Seriously we got them for lunch with mashed potatoes today... bit tasteless i think.

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Message 6/117 16-Aug-00 @ 03:07 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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ha ha ha - what?.. no kissing the reindeer??!! heh

which track?.. um - i cant remember right now - but dont remaster they are fine thats the whole point... so.. you ville buy from ze thomann eh... man they are a serious pain... i asked about that from hoontech and they said that sounds wrong cos that is the trade price exactly that you are quoted - are you sure that is retail?.. cos it is exactly the trade price ex tax in the uk..

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Message 7/117 17-Aug-00 @ 01:05 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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For the simplicity i usually divide Finnish marks (FIM) by 10 to get pounds, but now that u mentioned the thing i checked latest exchange rate and it is 9.74
Ze thomann is selling it to you (brits) for �278 and for us (reindeers) �270 to be exact. Maybe it's tax thing or justu that it is easier to rip limeys off ... kidding

Maybe the system counts FIM prica automatically 'cos there's no information about that product in Finnish (I haven't figured out how they have their pages translated into Finnish.)
I don't get it...not mastering? sure i would like to mix the lo's better and compress the whole track... as u wish tho.

ville

Imagine the reindeer's breath... actually closest what i've been one is in my parents house where they got one's skin on the wall.

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Message 8/117 17-Aug-00 @ 06:02 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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but that doesnt include delivery & british tax surely?...

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Message 9/117 17-Aug-00 @ 06:28 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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delivery ... to be exact... �10.3

If by any possibility have time, i'd appreciate if u could throw little bit comments about those tracks of mine. Suggestions?

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Message 10/117 17-Aug-00 @ 12:40 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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well it's the strong pound then, fuck me, whats the point... uk internet retail startups are fucked before they even start then, cos we cant use the strong pound to BUY the fucking goods, but we have to sell them with a strong pound, whilst the uk distributors must NOT be doing a proper pound conversion but simply making up a figure that approximates to their profit expectancy, or they are being ripped off by the supplier main company.... Look, check it... if the Uk dist buys goods then they must get more goods per pound than thomman gets for the DM, so how the fuck can thomman sell them in UK pounds cheaper than the fucking UK trade price UNLESS the Uk distributor is NOT doing a fair pound conversion or is being overcharged. and that is right across the board for all good, whatever we buy in the fucking UK is always expensive even tho it costs us LESS to import it cos of the pound... so, i guess uk internet retail is fucked then, no wonder there are no UK internet retailers worth a wank. it just doesnt make any business sense to start up in the uk, so looks like it'll have to be germany then... so bizzare, so, i send all internet hosting biz from uk companies to the states so all that business goes stateside... and now to setup a DT retail seriously, i'll have to locate that in fucking Germany or somewhere like that... so why even BOTHER to live in this stinking fucked up place - there's just no point. whatever you want to do, you get ripped off and have no chance before you start.

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Message 11/117 17-Aug-00 @ 12:55 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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when i read english mags prices are about same or a bit cheaper than here.But market lot bigger there...
When i asked about hoontech from the importing company they thought that they'd sell about 50 of them to Finnland.

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Message 12/117 17-Aug-00 @ 01:13 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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well from a currency point of view that is utter bullshit - the price in the uk should be actually cheaper... the DM is weak, germany is in recession... we will buy more hoontech for the pound than germany for the DM. - i am confused, because it seems like another British rip off....

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Message 13/117 17-Aug-00 @ 01:45 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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mebbe german's think it's patriotic thing to rip limeys....
Did you read that in the other thread where i told that i �they sent me an SMS message in Finnish. it's such a relief to get service in your own language (you could not know what i'm talkin). There allways bit of fuss when dealing with foreign language especially when ppl are using specialist vocalbulary .You get sort of feeling "was i understood" , "am i ripped off here"
It seems that Finland is quite good market for them. Every music store here shivers when i mention thomann. They don't like them at all for obvious reasons

K - ... ahemm ... humbly i ask for quick comment on me tracks. I'd appreciate that really much 'cos i don't have many ppl here who could tell me where i'm going.

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Message 14/117 17-Aug-00 @ 05:45 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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ha ha - that was funny... ye4ah, you Finns, all riding round on sledges and shit and fighting polar bears & yaks... i tell you what, i was all fit to get the next bus over after this...

i said i like your track already... you want more ?

yeah that transltion s/w is a bastard eh?...

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Message 15/117 17-Aug-00 @ 06:31 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

dizzy

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Hey K, where did you get your Hoontech? I just got the new SOS today and cant find mention of the damned thing.

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Message 16/117 18-Aug-00 @ 08:36 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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i got it from the distributor - cos we sell 'em if you want one, with or without a new PC to go with it... Also, i just chatted with the dist' in uk & Germany yesterday, and we can it seems now get a UK price that is the same as thomman so that is sorted out - also remember these things do NOT come with a power supply cos they are shipped world-wide, you must buy also a 12V supply native to your country mains supply.... Right now i'm using a decent heavey duty uk 12V dc supply that i use for my bassstation keyboard and it works fine.

i'm not too enamoured with the idea of selling stuff to another country cos of the potential probs if the unit is faulty, and with the pound as strong as it is, there's very little chance anyways - also, we are not 100% up and running yet for retail, just setting things up bit by bit, so for now, if you are in London area and want one, if you bring your pc round, i'll fit it, and give you a tutorial in the studio on how to use it for different configs with a full setup of kit for you to demo it with. So you can spend some time working a mix with a few synths and drum machine etc or bring along a midifile or VST song file of your own on disk to mess with...

thats not a bad idea, cos if we slam the card in and it doesnt work with your chipset or whatever for some reason, then no big deal, just forget it and walk away.

i can only offer that if you come down in person with your pc base unit, mouse & keyboard. As a bonus i'll dump in a few CD's worth of custom samples on your hard drive as well if you buy one.

Yes, prolly you couldnt find Hoontech in sos, but very few people know about the stuff it's a fairly new product for europe right now. as I say, i had to take a gamble and buy one first to find out about it. luckily it was a v. good experience.

when DT is up and running 100% you'll see what we are trying to do which is slightly different to a standard shop-online ... cos after all, i dont think any DT regulars or me wants DT to become like just a frikkin great online shop even tho with the traffic we get it would be a proposition, in fact beleive it or not, when i went down to get something from Turnkeys distribution dept the other day, one of the managers said they'd like to see some paperwork when we get going with the new server & site features cos perhaps they might look after our online shopping for us - ha ha. so bigger retail companies like that can see DT's potential as a retail shop front.

but i cant say too much about exactly how we'll do it now until we let it go properly.

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Message 17/117 19-Aug-00 @ 05:26 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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Hi guys,

just a small comment: you do not need a power supply. The box works with the power from the PC system alone under normal circumstances (if the PC has a decent power supply). In some cases (like a small PC case with small power supply or when you are using several external ADC/DAC units with one card) it may be needed to get an extra power supply. That's why the external box has a 12V DC connector. But again: under normal operation you don't need that.

Best regards,

Claus

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Message 18/117 19-Aug-00 @ 10:10 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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oh !... so i dont need it ?.... hang on cos i got a huge server case on my pc with a big old unblowable heavey duty server power supply unit... (mind you, it sounds like concorde warming up it's afterburners ! ha ha!)

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Message 19/117 21-Aug-00 @ 02:40 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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I doubt that FM never does a story on hoontech. They wouldn't piss off "big companies" I don't trust their reviews usually. If want *really* know the truth about some gadget i come here...

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Message 20/117 21-Aug-00 @ 08:12 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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well, just some thoughts -

I cant over-emphasise how much power you get if you can acheive this same live realtime configuration with a PC audio rack like this Hoontech acheives -

any sampler can be used and routed into the vst mix, and hey presto - filters, fx etc on each part no probs right alongside your vst instruments and audio treacks all on the same mixer... midi controlled filter sweeps, etc etc.. noi probs.. it just intergrates everything so well.... so really, whatever you buy, with todays fast PC's there is no reason not to have this ability anymore, even tho it might mean some inevitable reselling and purchasing - I'm expecting gadgetlabs 2496 & Midiman's delta's & terratec's ews88 to get the same sortoff results - but the working ability is just so good and so quick... you can even setupo eq/filter & fx moves on incoming audio where no audio is recorded... IF you then record & commit some of that incoming audio, then on playback, the eq's & fx are already in place and it plays back just the same as when the audio input was live... that is great.. cos you can setup a moinosynth part, set some eq & fx work the pattern in place, then record it... when it plays back, all the fx & eq etc you setup are in-place as before you recorded, it is so fast... then you can reset the monosynth to a new sound, plug it into a new channel or move the audio part to another track with it's mix routine and carry on composing a new monosynth part...

so try to get it, cos it add's more power than spending alot more elsewhere i'd say. the fact you can have an outboard sampler with all it's stability on the same mnixer as say a cheap assed vst synth like NEON doing a pattern & a drum loop track playing audio loops etc is very good to me... it just makes everything click.

i'm sorry stuff is dragging on to get the new site up, but as soon as the rest of the cash comes in, the first thing i'm gonna do is go out and buy a P3 and test the other cards i listed above in this post - so we can get a nice list of the definitive realtime ASIO (or EASI) audio hardware... inc' that Egosys laptop stuff - anyways - worth a thought - my premise here is that getting THIS right in effect add's realtime fx & eq (with moving control) to your sampler - regardless of how new it is and wether it has built-in eq & fx or not - so it can save tons of money as an option to getting a newer more expensive sampler... which after all, might not offer too much extra in terms of it's ability as a sampler, but you are upgrading to get better eq & fx on your sampler etc... It just means ANYTHING you own becomes intergrated into the VST programme (and hopefully Logic's too when i get to test it.) just as if it was a VST plugin or instrument -

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Message 21/117 21-Aug-00 @ 10:25 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

dizz

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"if you are in London area and want one, if you bring your pc round, i'll fit it"

I'm in Ireland so faff that mate, thanks tho.
I agree with you about the realtime FX nature of the card. It would be a good buy even if you wanted something better quality soon after because of the live mixerlike integration. Am I right in thinking that no other card about can do this? (and why not)

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Message 22/117 21-Aug-00 @ 11:38 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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yes other cards should do it, recent ones that is, but i just didnt get a chance to try them hands on yet... I'm not saying hoontech is the only answer although it does the job perfect - and thats why i want to try the others soon. what i do like about the hoontech tho is that you will soon be able to mix & mtach analog & digital inputs on the same system when they release the adat rack version. - i'm not sure if the others offer that future option of stacking multiple racks with a single card.

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Message 23/117 22-Aug-00 @ 06:18 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Breakerbox

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Hey K! are you gonna test the Digital audio card in future?

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Message 24/117 22-Aug-00 @ 08:15 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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nah, it's not on my lists, what are you talking?.. like the V8 stuff rack etc ??... it's VERY expensive and designed ages ago - so i doubt it. or is there something new they got out ? i'm a bit busy to look around the web alot lately

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Message 25/117 22-Aug-00 @ 06:02 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

dizz

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"yes other cards should do it, recent ones that is, but i just didnt get a chance to try them hands on yet..."

I'm not sure about this, I thought the only reason the Hoon did it was because it has a mixer DSP on the card that manages to interface with the PC software. The Delta 1010 doesnt do it does it?

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Message 26/117 22-Aug-00 @ 08:54 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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i dont think so , it's the efficiency of the asio drivers i guess... it can be configured different ways, but i'm talking about when using the special low latency asio drivers, which are designed to allow you to work all inside the pc, so you just have a stereo monitor out option, cos the object there in realtime is to create a mix inside a digital environment...

but you can also route parrallel to a s/pdif out to to write to a dat etc, and of course burn to a final stereo file

Tonight i had a go with some softsynth using the asio drivers... i got rebirth on the Rewire up and running, and it was smack bang on sync immeadiatly on boot

i could apply realtime eq, reverb & tempo delay to the drums & 303 in the vst mixer to get a nice flowing sound, i boosted the kik at 100hz etc... and routed them to vst subs to devide them up... i also was just able to open NEON doing a sub-pattern and also added delay to that on the vst mixer, but the machine was staggering along with slow screen draws and crackles etc, BUT... always totally in sync but the old 200mmx cant cope with that load. still i saw it as an initial success, the thing is with a bigger machine will the crackles go away !??...

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Message 27/117 22-Aug-00 @ 11:46 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

1indaKnow

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Delta 1010 and Hoontech use the same DSP/PCI chip, actually, with very similar features.

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Message 28/117 23-Aug-00 @ 05:06 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

dizz

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So does anyone know if the 1010 can do the live FX on the inputs thing, thats the main selling point for me actually and I find it a bit strange that no one mentions it in reviews. Also any other card for that matter like the Gadget Labs, motu, or stuff like that that would be better quality than the hoon.

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Message 29/117 23-Aug-00 @ 09:10 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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well you have to also look at t what you pay, cos the hoon is 24/96 and crisp with 24bit adc/dac although the card stereo monitor out is a tad hissy but that for your multimedia, and honestly i aint had time to see if turning down a few things on the media mixer with help that noisier output. - but the rack is crisp, and in asio mode when listening in stereo, it is crisp too - but very cheap so weight it up if the extra is worth the perceived quality difference if there is any - i'd be interested to see the difference too, but to me this sounds plenty ok to make aproduct and thats all i care about. if it'll do that then fine. and i get two midi ports which is kinda nice, and i can mix and mtahc 4 racks with adat & analog.. to get any combi of adat/analog up to 32 in's/out's (+ 8 balanced XLR outs and cox optical s/pdif.. all on one card. that to me is good that ability, you know for example you can decide to add say a yammy o1v and wire it in without having to change hardware, or use a dig mixer, or get the rack so your studio can offer adat direct bounce & dig edit/remix and re-bounce back to adat when finished or to dat or to file etc facilities - a massive plus for the budget commercial studio as that could bring in LOADS of adat user work, they might pop in to edit their guitar parts, like grab the best verse 7 copy it over a bum verse etc... build layered BV's mix them then blow them back to the adat etc etc...

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Message 30/117 23-Aug-00 @ 09:40 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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This is great! I can see how my hoochiecoochietechie is traveling by mail: on Post office's website i can write down "shipping ID" and it tells me where it is going. I saw how it arrived to finnland yesterday and tomorrow was taken from the harbour to logistic center. Tomorrow i'll be 473 euros poorer but proud owner of Hoontech. wow

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Message 31/117 23-Aug-00 @ 09:50 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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I'm not a medio: should be today instead of tomorrow (like anyone cares)

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Message 32/117 23-Aug-00 @ 03:59 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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shit, well i hope you have as good experience as me.... what's the box it's going in ? - can't wait to get my P3

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Message 33/117 23-Aug-00 @ 10:42 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Tomek S.

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As far as I know, all audio cards with ASIO drivers are capable of that - it's more a feature of Cubase (and Logic 4.5). What makes it actually practically possible on the hardware side is very low latency times that new ones have. This hoontech looks really nice by the way.K, I'm looking forward for your comparisons with other cards, and also experiences with a more powerful machines.
Great site, by the way.
Cheers,
Tomek S.

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Message 34/117 24-Aug-00 @ 01:22 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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Just upgraded the processor yesterday (AMD K6-2) 550mhz. That's the fastes chip which uses socket 7... hard to find them now. 256 MB ram. VIA's chipset is the only pain in the arse. it conflicts with my CD-writer every now and then. But i think i found solution yesterday. Computer is commited only for the music making... I think that's good enough for me for a while and I've trimmed the beast so it's starting to like me... maybe bit overclocking in the future or new mother.

I bough new mixer and monitors last friday... Just shelf for CD's and monitor's from IKEA and my little home is perfect :-)

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Message 35/117 24-Aug-00 @ 01:23 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

jay7

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hi k, as ever i am in debt to you for the rest of my life for the info i have gathered from this site. you may remember a while back i asked you why i had 750 ms latency while using cubase 3.5 with p2 350intel 128 ram &sb live value, while with logic the latency is negligable, youre reply was cubase 3.5 was crap and to upgrade .Guess what ive upgraded to 3.7 and still 750ms latency so i was wondering where you said earlier you would fit the hoontech to a machine if it was bought to you , does this mean you could supply and fit the hoontech for a price ? or is there a cheaper alternative to try first? thanx jay.

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Message 36/117 24-Aug-00 @ 01:41 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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you should get better latency that that - are you using the right drivers ?.. mme asio is way slower... for low latency you need a special asio driver which is designed to give low latency & thus realtime fx, and work in stereo so you are mixing inside a digital domain, and therefore monitor via stereo monitor out - like i can switch to asio mme on the hoontech to playback on dedicated outs for hardware mixing, at that point i can add vst & DX fx also but the latency is not an issue as i'm not adding the fx in realtime to a live input -

still, you should get better latency than that - did you look at that SBLive site for driver tips ? - see the link above -

yes... bring your pc to my place and try the hoontech on your pc.. then if it works, i'll get you one. -

we are also getting Behringer now. i've been checking out the behringer gumph... seems they build in China under ISO9000 certification, so that explains the price, but they use Panasonic faders and ALP pot's & fibreglass heavey duty boards & steel chassis etc & a fucking great external heavey duty power supply on the bigger mixers... hmm.. nice... but i can see why China is the place - i guess they invested in China early and can thus undercut the competition now.... hmm.. I wouldnt mind living in China for the next couple of years as it goes.. place to be I reckon !!...

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Message 37/117 24-Aug-00 @ 02:31 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Tomek S.

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jay7: you should be using the asio directX drivers, or better yet get the 5.0 demo, which will install a new directX full duplex driver - which has a much lower latency and allows you to record (old DirectX drivers worked only on playback).
Tomek S.

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Message 38/117 24-Aug-00 @ 03:31 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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HOONTECH UPDATE-

ok, i got time to test a few things out after getting new info...

1. The 12V power supply issue - I saw the 12V socket and just plugged in when i got the system... then Claus said you don't need it - so today i got time to removed it, and yes, the RACK is drawing voltage fine from the PC !!! - heh heh - and there is two consequential bonus's to that...

2. having two power sources (the pci slot and the 12V DC supply feeding the rack) must have been effecting the card cos now I removed the power supply, the stereo CARD minijack MONITOR OUT is no longer hissy/noisey - (i was concerned with that aspect as one of the only two drawbacks i could find with the package - it is perfectly quiet now, GREAT!! - so that potential problem is gone...

3. Also the digital noise that used to happen at the audio output when you powered down the PC now no longer happens also, so that also must have been a result of the double-power supply issue, anyways - that has stopped - so there ya go !!

now i can't find any niggles with the Hoontech at all and of course you DON'T have to get a 12V supply !! - in fact if anything, now it sounds better overall - lovely jubbly!!

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Message 39/117 24-Aug-00 @ 03:38 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

jay7

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excuse my ignorance but the only asio drivers i can find are for the emu aps which seem notoriously involved to get running on a live, are there drivers available specifically for the live anywhere (also where do i find my direct x version no in win 95 have found it before but cant remember where or what it was, too much buddha!) thanx again jay.

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Message 40/117 24-Aug-00 @ 05:31 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

dizz

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Arse.
So now Im back to tryin to suss out which card to get if they can all do live FX. Bugger it, ill just get the damn thing anyway, its not as if im Mr Professional.
Can anyone gives me the site of a UK dealer? K are you going to be dealing over the net or even mail order?
As for 750ms in vst3.5, i was getting 500 or so with a SB 64 Gold.

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Message 41/117 24-Aug-00 @ 09:28 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

jay7

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as if by magic! thanks whoever sent me that however i didnt get it all, please send again thanx jay

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Message 42/117 25-Aug-00 @ 12:35 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Tomek S.

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I think hoontech still looks like an excellent deal, when you consider what you're getting for that amount of cash.
I'm interested in some comparisons with other interfaces, in terms of stability and performance.
So far looks like a winner for me, though.

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Message 43/117 25-Aug-00 @ 01:48 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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I got mine yesterday!!!
k - when i opened the package i realised there wasn't psu included.... "fuck" ... till irealised it doesn't necessarily need one. Manual says that it can make rack "more stable"...(?) . Manuals were bit confusing. OK my english isn't exactly perfect but it *is* tha manual... "Also Balance input is antomaticully stop When unbalance aduio input coneing"... had to read that twice. Actually it raised warm smile to my face and hoontech definetly has my sympathy

I hadn't much time to fool around with it... but installing was painless. Tried it with acid where u can choose output for a every track. Not sure if it worked like i thought but i got signal out. External link program seemed very intuitive when u got hang of it which i didn't. Yet. Manual doesn't give very much help... K..... (squeal).... help(!)

Sound was at least same quality (my opinion) as my audiowerk2. That's a compliment with my limited experince. Line out from card (used just for monitoring and windows sounds) did have rather weak signal... maybe there's a reason to that.Getting grip on screws which u use to connect BIG CABLE to rack was difficult... and volume knob for earphone output felt bit "stucky". Minor things...

I hope i can spend more time with it during weekend... even if it is Renaissance and Formula 1 weekend.(D.Coulthard is such a wanker!!! Big mouth but when things get rough he is weeping like me wee sister... Hakkinen is going to wipe the floor with him and walls with Schumacher ;)

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Message 44/117 25-Aug-00 @ 07:04 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

rouge

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tell me... how long was the cable and what do you mean "Not sure if it worked like i thought but i got signal out"... how did you expect it to work? Have you found any other dissapointments?

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Message 45/117 25-Aug-00 @ 08:26 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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relax man...

Cable was... long. at least 1,5 m - i think. You now screws which u use to tighten up the cable? well the screws were just bit akward totwist with my thick fingers

nothing serious. Like i said i didn't have time to properly get into it... it was quite late and had an early wake this morning. I quickly tried iit out... I didn't get hold of that mixer program and routing. That only indicates only that my unde is lacking something... WIth acid it founded several outs in pop up menu, but something wasn't routed right in External Links 'cos signal went into channels. Please just ignore me: I'll tell you more after weekend or during.

But most important thing was that there wasn't single click or pop when i played mp3's thru it. I mean... i have VIA's fucker chipset which normally would have pissed on any new equipment when it sees one...

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Message 46/117 25-Aug-00 @ 08:30 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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As u noticed I*DO* have as thick fingers as my head is. "signals went into _wrong_ channels".

And you couldn't know it but External links is application which comes with card. Looks neat and handy ...

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Message 47/117 26-Aug-00 @ 12:35 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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yes, you'll work it out - any specific questions??.... add them here and i'll try to answer... as i do have acid here to test it out - but sounds like you just didnt get the hang of the s/w app that it works thru for routing - that's just cos the current manual (ha!) is toilet, but new 'proper/full' one is due soon -

dizz - yes i can supply you one in the Uk - mail me - or if in London you can pick it up or bring your pc round and we'll fit it here - if anyone in London wants to see it in action, just mail me and come round and give it a go in the studio.

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Message 48/117 26-Aug-00 @ 02:02 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Point Being

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kilo, if you wouldnt mind whipping up a quick one about using different outs with acid 2.0 pro.. i'd really appreciate it.. i've looked through all the menues i can think of, and sounds are directly routed through to the mains (0r fx)

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Message 49/117 27-Aug-00 @ 01:27 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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i aint got it - but old version you can assign mixer channels to outs - sorry

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Message 50/117 27-Aug-00 @ 06:47 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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Hello!

I just want to mention - because it has been discussed before - that the updated manual of the DSP24 has been uploaded to Hoontech's webserver under the URL mentioned above. It has about 2.5 MB and it's in MS Word 2000 format. With the next update in one or two weeks we're going to make a PDF-version as well.

Best regards,

Claus

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Message 51/117 27-Aug-00 @ 08:16 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

rouge

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There appears to be a control on the front panel to control the input gain of the balanced XLR inputs.... what about the unbalanced jack inputs?

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Message 52/117 27-Aug-00 @ 09:28 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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Message 53/117 27-Aug-00 @ 11:07 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Point Being

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if anyone needs (for whatever reason) i can make a pdf of this version.

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Message 54/117 28-Aug-00 @ 02:37 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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good morning guys... (what a race yesterday whoa!!! third championship is allmost certain)

k - yep. problem was that i didn't figure out the routing application, but now i did and it's everything is just a breeze... very uncomplicated.
When i opened acid pro there card's differend outputs appeared on drop down list net to every track. So i could just select the output, pan track hard left/right and there it was really. No click, pops, hassle or any fuzz. Nothing more to say about that.. 4 fader for each stereo channel appeared on mixer section plus there was a fade for DSP card's own line out. So actually you can have ten analog cahnnels...
BTW is there another way how u could route the mono channels except to pan them hard to left or right? Not with acid i suppose...

This thing is best buy definetely.

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Message 55/117 28-Aug-00 @ 03:52 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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claus - Is there new driver updates which I should donload from hoontech site? To be honest website is bit unclear on that matter...

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Message 56/117 28-Aug-00 @ 08:54 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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Sorry for the double message above (our Proxy sometimes likes to reload pages ;)

rouge: You can control the gain of the first input channel pair (1+2) up to +40dB and you can enable phantom power as well (for both, the balanced XLR and the unbalanced TRS connectors). Input channels 3 to 8 are fixed at line level.

ville: I bet that most of the initial confusion should be gone with the new manual. One section will be changed / added before we make the final PDF version of it. You should get the latest drivers from the Hoontech webserver if you're using the ASIO 2.0 driver (Cubase VST or Logic Audio 4.5) or if you plan to use GigaSampler / GigaStudio. You can always find the latest driver as listed news on the .com page under 'Service & Support'. There is a discussion forum (Q&A) on that page as well to talk about the cards and their usage.

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Message 57/117 28-Aug-00 @ 02:24 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

rouge

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so, is it possible to record guitar directly into the TRS jack inputs?

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Message 58/117 29-Aug-00 @ 01:55 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

phunkytek

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I am really interested in these devices. I use a ds2416 card and am impressed by the fact that i can group any vst channels together and send them to the card for grouping and flawless mixing and dynamics while mixing my samples in on other channels with absolutly no latency on the card, but i'm limited to my samplers fx and the ds2416's fx. K, you said you can actually route external audio to the vst mixer and apply plug-ins and control all of the channels on the cards from the vst mixer. Is that what they are doing with the external link functions on the mixer, and all real time? It sounds to good to be true. That would be like protools. This is exactly what I wanted when the dsp factory was released, but the yamaha was the closest thing to it. Tell me, s is that the case. I went to the web site and they don't get into the application side of it in detail. I want plug-ins on incoming as well as out. I was planning on buying protools next year after i graduate and have real income, but this type of device sounds like the answer, and i could still use my o1v for remote operation. Kilo, tell me if I have this right or not. I'm excited.

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Message 59/117 29-Aug-00 @ 06:21 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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K or claus:

Rack has leds above every input. how do i get mono leds to light up?
When I activate channels from external mixer only stereo led is on. (I want to sit quietly in my room without any lights and flash all the leds in my gear)

Is there way to treat the channels as mono rather than stereo? Then i wouldn't have to "hard pan" track's every time... (just wondering)

I have some vierd noise coming out of DSP's own linet out... sort of rumble... it reacts to my mouse moves. Funny.... That doesn't matter much tho (for non-hoontech owner's) 'cos rack's outputs are'nt noisy at all.

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Message 60/117 29-Aug-00 @ 08:31 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

rouge

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that mouse moving problem should go away with a decent graphics card. ATI make reliable cards for audio PC's.

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Message 61/117 29-Aug-00 @ 08:58 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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Hi!

First of all, yes it is possible to connect a guitar directly to the TRS inputs of channel 1+2.

Secondly (to ville), the M+S LEDs on the channel mean Master + Slave and not Mono / Stereo ;) - the interface we're using to connect external boxes to the card allows two independand busses which are called Master & Slave. Other cards (like the SoundTrack Digital Audio) can use the same external converter box and have multiple mixers / DSPs on the card. The LEDs are indicating if the specific (stereo) input channel is used by the first or second DSP on the card. The DSP24 has just one mixer / DSP so the S LEDs will be used only.

Windows itself only supports stereo in and out devices. What you can do with it (or how you have to work with it) depends on the application you are using. Most Audio-/MIDI-Sequencers allow you to access the left and right channel of each device separatly.

The output on the card itself can be noisy indeed in some cases. This is just intended as output for users without normal soundcard who want to be able to use the DSP24 as standard windows soundcard (system sounds, media player, games, voice recogintion software, and so on). You're only using the external in- and outputs for serious recording (they provide the low latency and are accessed by the ASIO 2.0 and GSIF-drivers).

phunkytek: what you want to do is possible but you have to keep in mind that it all depends on the CPU-power of your system. If you are using many channels and a lot of high-quality effects, you can easily get even the fastest system to be slow as hell when working in Cubase. It really depends on the way you are working but for me personlly, modern PC systems are not yet fast enough to do everything inside the PC. Also, 'realtime' means that you will have a latency of about 6-7 ms at least. This would be with 96kHz (3ms input latency + 3ms output latency + about 1ms for the effect/plugin). The DSP Factory hardware should have a ltency of about 3-4 ms to compare the values but the latency of the DSP24 increases with lower samplerates (factor 2 for 48kHz instead of 96kHz). For a few channels and adding some reverb, some EQ or some dyanmics that's OK. But if you're going to do a complete extensive mix I would not recommend this setup for 8 or more channels.

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Message 62/117 29-Aug-00 @ 11:31 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Defector Z

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Hey Claus,

First off, thanks for joining the discussion! :-) Always nice to have the manufacturers take part.

Secondly, I have found your website to be somewhat confusing. :-) English is my first language, and the English versino is a little...strange. Not a biggy, but maybe something to consider.

Thirdly, I am very interested in the products. k's review intrigues me greatly (give him a nice fat commission :-) but I have not been able to locate any dealers here in the states. What I am interested in really, are the street prices. Getting midi i/o and 8 audio i/o's will cost me how much?

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Message 63/117 29-Aug-00 @ 05:19 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Point Being

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479 dollars.. *yawn* ..
"SoundTrack Audio DSP24

==================================================================

ADC & DAC 2000

$479 with Audio DSP24 and I/O bracket as shown. Picture shows front and back of the single rackmount box

96kHz 24-bit 8-IN 8-OUT Rack mountable Hard-Disk Recording System.

Now 8 channels in and out in a single rackmount unit at a bare soundcard price.

[SPECIFICATION]

8 Analog inputs for true 8 track simultaneous recording.

- 2 Balanced channels with switchable Phantom Power on MIC & Line input pre-amps.

- Gain controls for accurate level setting with Peak Lights for Channel 1 and 2 XLR inputs.

- 96kHz 24bit ADC/DAC Chips

- Input Sampling Rates : 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz

- Converter Resolution :16-Bit, 20-bit, 24-bit

8CH Analog Outputs(1/4" jack )
------------------------------------------------------
- 2CH Balanced XLR outputs
- Monitoring Head-phone connector (1/4" jack)
- Output Sampling rates : 32kHz, 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz
- Output Data : Up to 24-bit

MIDI Supports
------------------------------------------------------
* Two 16Ch Ports (32CH) Standard MPU-401 MIDI outputs.
* One 16Ch Port Standard MPU-401 MIDI input.

"

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Message 64/117 30-Aug-00 @ 03:51 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

try this link

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i think this claus guy is a distributor.

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Message 65/117 30-Aug-00 @ 04:26 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

rouge

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Whats the best latency figures you can obtain on a good spec PC?

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Message 66/117 30-Aug-00 @ 05:31 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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there's a review

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Message 67/117 30-Aug-00 @ 07:45 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

rouge

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Anyone got any stats on things such as the Dynamic Range of this card?

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Message 68/117 30-Aug-00 @ 07:47 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Defector Z

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PB - sorry to bore you with my questions... I'll try to give you something more difficult next time...

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Message 69/117 30-Aug-00 @ 03:06 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Defector Z

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Hey - can you have multiple applications using the card at the same time? Meaning, I can use Wavelab and VST at the same time without getting that annoying error message?

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Message 70/117 30-Aug-00 @ 05:08 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

phunkytek

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you can already avoid the message when using cubase and wavelab by allowing audio in the background by
un-checking the box under preferances in the file drop down list. Most soft synths are going vst anyway

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Message 71/117 30-Aug-00 @ 06:47 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

point being

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defectorz.. yes.. you have the option to enable that or have a better sync with just one application (or so i was led to believe) you didnt bore me, i was tired..

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Message 72/117 30-Aug-00 @ 09:33 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Defector Z

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Phunkytek - I have tried to use other applications at the same time but can't do it. It's the limitation of my soundcard. Like if I have my MP3 player going, I can't listen to the ballgame at the same time. Can't open VST and Rebirth at the same time either. I really think its a limitation of the soundcard. It's an old Darla 16bit. The one where the "breakout box" plugs directly into the card so you can't utilize the PCI slots above or below it. Didn't know dick about it at the time...

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Message 73/117 31-Aug-00 @ 01:43 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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ahem... everybody gather around...

I have a problem with my hoontech!
well nothing biggie but the card stops responding when i leave it unused for some time... I don't know exactly how long but evrytime i've left my computer on and went away for few hours there's no sound at all when i'm back. I don't know if it has got something to do with powersaving settings of my computer. I'm going to try differed settings and watch closely when it goes out.
I don't know if it was same reason but one time my computer didn't wake at all after 3 hours of absence...

claus & K?

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Message 74/117 31-Aug-00 @ 08:12 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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ville: never had anything like that. please try to disable power saving completly and see if it still happens. Then contact us (me directly, or use the Q&A page on Hoontech's webserver) with the specs / components of your system. Especially the used mainboard, chipset, other PCI-cards, and so on.

About the multiclient support: we're adding multiclient (several applications can open the same device) for MIDI with one of the next driver updates. For audio, you can use WaveLab (or a similar) at the same time as Cubase (for example) but you cannot use the same physical outputs with both programs at the same time. The card has 12 output channels (8 external, 2 for S/PDIF and 2 from the monitoring channel) so that shouldn't matter.

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Message 75/117 01-Sep-00 @ 01:54 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

phunkytek

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claus is right , disable any screan saver and any power managment, but don't worry about it if it continues because i have the same problem with other windows apps as well. Windows does not like to sit patiently. Save your work and close the app. I also restart my system if i have been useing other apps that are media related before i begin a new session.this reloads drivers and initializes all the hardware for glich free operation.

Also, Defector, You should have no problem launching rebirth with cubase if you have ver 2.01 of rebirth since it uses rewire and plugs all the rebirth instruments and drum sounds right into the vst mixer as their own tracks. I do see what you mean though. You do need to have a multy bus sound card to allowcate to diferant programs. I tried to use dream station pluged into an unused bus on my ds2416, and used hubie's loopback as the midi link and it was out of time, so i stick to hard ware synths. I prefer the tactile control, and zero latency.

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Message 76/117 01-Sep-00 @ 07:50 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Defector Z

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Yeah - I finally got Rebirth (why the F*UCK don't I use that program more?!) to operate with Rewire a couple of months ago. I was trying to get some audio synched up with MIDI (rewire) and gave up. I'm just not patient enought, I guess. But my soundcard does not have separate buses. Looks like the Hoontech does. Some audio ins 1+2 are the only ones with the preamp? Okay. I have to check my mixer to see what I am sending out from the various output channels.

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Message 77/117 01-Sep-00 @ 03:08 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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ok....

1. with rebirth etc you can route it from VST mixer to it's own dedicated output pair on the rack to then route out to a hardware mixer alongside the other outs

2. although for windoze the outs are fixed as pairs, in VST if you make your tracks mono on the track-headers/mixer they then work as mono outs, allowing each front rack line-input to act as a mono input controlled by it's allocated vst channel in the VST mixer...

3. you can open your editor or run windoze media etc all at the same time as your multitrack is running on the rack etc... If you are using all 8 outs, then just set the card's monitor out as your output for your editor, then you can tweak & tune your loops to your hearts content before re-importing them into your multitrack etc

4. yes.. you can plug OUTBOARD kit into the rack, add RREALTIME VST fx and mix it all on the vst mixer, in this case you monitor in stereo.... if you want to, you can at anytime stick a track into record and record the outboard coming in on that track/channel... on playback, the fx & mixer moves etc play just the same but processing the file rather than incoming audio...

5. for mixing on outboard mixer with seperate outs, do your tracking and recording using the vst special asio drivers to get realtime monitoring fx if needed, then record the parts you want to mix on outboard... switch vst to use the mme drivers so you can access multi-outs... mix (in this case the latency is higher, BUT you are not using realtime fx, the fx are only added for playback, so you can apply vst fx and also assign tracks/subs to dedicated outs... at the same time you can have a master mix going to stereo analog balanced xlr out, or s/pdif etc...

6.if you like to work totally in hardware using outboard hardware fx, utilising the PC as if it were a traditional tape multitrack, then use the DSP card 'applet' to route the rack IN's direct across 'bridged' to the racks outs (link audio In-to-OUt)... then all incoming rack audio on channels 1-8 (line/mic in's) passes across to it's corresponding output direct with no latency - that way you can use it with an inline mixer, adding hardware FX .. BUT should you wish to record an input or combi of inputs, simply activate the VST inputs for that channel, and record... so in that scenario it works JUST like a tape machine working 'off-tape' monitoring where you add fx to the signal AFTER it passes across the record medium.. that way, ANY track recorded, when played back, will sound exactly the same with the same fx you setup for monitoring (old 'tape' lag's will know what i mean here, and if you like to work that way, this is perfect) this obviously is critical to do seamless drop-in's whilst monitoring FX are in place

so you can work TOTALLY is s/w needing NO other equipment as all fx etc are in realtime using the asio drivers & monitoring in stereo, and even the rack has a monitor headphone socket so you are 'self-contained'.)... or, work with outboard fx, or a combi of both s/w & outboard hardware fx

latency on my mmx box is running at 8ms...

Regarding the 'pro-tools' comments.... now dont think this is pro-tools in terms of quality (although, as you know if you've been round DT long enuff, i always maintain that 'quality' in this sense in dance is totally subjective)... VST fx wont get the same quality as pro-tools dsp farm fx or eq's etc.. BUT yes, the principal is the same & for what most home studio users are after, it's spot-on and in that scenario, yes, as good as pro-tools from a 'Method of working' point of view (but NOT quality of sound & fx from a purely 'spec' based point of view) but then hellfire, pro-tools is ALOT more expensive so be realistic!! - we are talking like a 300 quid i/o system here !!...

so yes, like pro-tools, you can plug IN to the rack, add realtime fx in vst etc... track & mix... 4 racks max to one card, and yes... ha, you CAN even stack 4 cards too, all controllable via the same single s/w app interface - that potentially gives you 4 racks x 10 I/O x 4 cards...um... that's er... 160 inputs/outputs on one pc !!! (dunno how multiple cards work the PC's irq's tho perhaps Claus can advise here)

pluggin in a guitar?... yes of course, plugin from a line-level out on your combo, or a rack pre-amp or pedal etc to a line-in on the rack ... add realtime vst fx... record.. mix...

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Message 78/117 01-Sep-00 @ 08:13 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Dizzy

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Hey K, Sorry if youve answered this before but can the inputs be recorded with the plugin FX in place, ie, a compressor on a synth, or are they switched off when recording and then turned on again to mix.
Also you said to drop you a mail about buying it, which if you meant the DT contact mail, I've done a few days ago.

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Message 79/117 02-Sep-00 @ 11:00 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

jdifool

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Ok, now I know I can mix external gear's signal with regular audio in VST with no delay.... Yes!!! That's great!
Now the next question is about softsynth like Reaktor and others, how can I make them go into the VST mixer if they don't support Rewire??? Pulsar provide some kind of virtual audio port, the synth choose it as an audio output and the mixer as an input. A bit like Virtual Audio Cable but without any latency... Any other way??

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Message 80/117 02-Sep-00 @ 09:40 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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Dizzy: of course this depends on the used software. Speaking about Cubase VST, you can record the signal while you monitor it with effects. As long as you don't change the effect setting, you can keep it and mix it down to a new track. That all happens inside Cubase and has nothing to do with the DSP24 card ... (except that you can listen to it with 8ms of latency).

jdifool: basically, that problem does not really exist as there are very few software synthesizers out there that do not support ReWire or (better!) exist as a VST plugin. Reaktor works perfectly as VST plugin inside Cubase VST 3.7/5.0 or Logic Audio 4.5 as example (it's the same for LM-4, B4, PPG Wave, VAZ Modular, etc.). Standalone Reaktor uses ASIO for multi-channel output. A 'virtual cable' like Pulsar provides it is not needed in such a case. Softsynths that only support DirectSound can be played through the monitor output at the same time the card is accessed by your Audio-/MIDI-Sequencer.

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Message 81/117 03-Sep-00 @ 10:19 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Defector Z

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Hey Claus,

Question for you.

In another thread, k said that Hoontech would not recommend using a VIA chipset with a Hoontech sound card. What is the conflict, and is anything being done to alleviate that problem?

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Message 82/117 04-Sep-00 @ 01:23 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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I'm *very* interested in previous question... ;)

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Message 83/117 04-Sep-00 @ 03:59 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

adams04

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Hi Claus
Can you tell me how the DSP24 runs with Gigasampler?
Which version do i need?
Is the DSP24 "multi-client"?
If it isn,t,how would Gigasampler run with vst ?
Can you confirm price of DSP24 in France?
This is the system with a breakout -box,not just the 2 pc cards?
I,m very impressed with its power,and it would be ideal for me,if i could use Gigasampler.Oh and how would Gigasampler appear in VST?Just in Audio??

Thanx very much ;
Guru.

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Message 84/117 04-Sep-00 @ 05:50 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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This is what i know:

check out above link there's some info on gigasampler and dsp24. And some pictures too...
www.thomann.de is selling it for the lowest price i've found in europe. (i'm not sure if they deliver to France. Britain and Finland yes...)

There's one card, daughterboard (doesn't need slot, just the hole back of your tower) and breakoutbox/rack.

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Message 85/117 04-Sep-00 @ 12:01 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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if you are using a NON rewire synth, you can allocate the cards Monitor outs to run it thru as it sync's to VST, that way you can ultilise all 8 rack OUT's if required and still use the card l/r out to work with your s/w synth, then record the stream output, and import the file into vst after composition... or you could allocate 6 out's to VST (3 pairs) and another rack pair to your non-rewire s/w synth -

dizzy mate i didnt get that mail - but yes i can supply you - try mailing me again, i was away last week, and when i retured for some strange reason some of the mails were corrupted.. mebbe it was that - my mail is kilo@realitycom.com

Guru mate the hoontech IS multiclient in that you can allocate it's drivers to different proggies... when using VST in stereo ASIO mode you have in effect lots of spare drivers to allocate to s/w synths or editor etc... so that 9is no probs... where the synth is Rewire, it just appears in the vst mixer - (hurry up Fruity-Loops and GET REWIRED !!!) - - I suppose theoretically, you could loop the Reactor out's to the rack In's direct, and they should then appear in the vst mixer, but that will add some latency... and you'd need to reserve 2 outs for playback, and 2 In's for routing it back IN to the vst mixer

the VIA sets i cant answer the specific - but there is one thing i was thinking - you say (Ville) you are running 8 rack outs playing from ACID tracks, and at the same time as they are playing, you are trying to record the hardware mix BACK into the pc on Input 1 & 2 on the rack - The thing is, rack channels 1 & 2 are already playing BACK audio, so in effect you are asking them to play and record at the same time, which i dunno is a good idea in this scenario..

what happens if you mix down from ACID to 6 outs (3-8) and then try to record back into the Rack via Inputs 1 & 2 ?? - does it make any difference wether the rack out's are playing & recording at the same time ?.. does it work if you record to TWO Out's that are NOT playing back ?

or.... have you tried to mix OUT of the 8 rack out's, then record IN thru the DSP cards stereo L/R input ? - if that works it may be the best bet for what YOU are doing to playback from rack 1-8, then record at the same time to the digital ST s/pdif IN, in that case if it worked ok all you'd need to invest in is a small cheap Stereo L/R ADC box with s/pdif OUT to route your audio master L/R mixer OUT down to the Hoontech L/R s/pdif IN L/R - (i say that as a adc box coupled to the hoontechs s/pdif IN's would prolly be better quality than recording to the stereo minijack Card input.. better connectors & adc etc) -

but theoretically you should be able to record to the stereo card IN's... Try it and see what happens wether either of those suggestions let's you playback & record at the same time in the way you are trying it - see if the dac's are playing back audio how can they also record without pop's - i will say tho in VST on my test box hoontech rack plays OUT from OUT 1 & 2 ok as it also records on the channel I & 2 IN's... so mebbe it IS that VIA set ??... anyways try those setups and tell me if it goes .

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Message 86/117 04-Sep-00 @ 12:22 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

jdifool

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Hi claus, so the answer for the 'virtual ports' is no...Shame. It shouldn't be difficult to do.
For the VST plug equivalent, I don't agree with you since, for example, the VST version of Reaktor is very limited compare to the standalone (no possible ensemble edition for example, that's a lot!) and there is no VST version of VAZ... Compare to those, all the VST instruments available look a bit like toys to me (even if some have a good sound).
OK, for the softsynth who support ASIO, an separate output on a ADA2000 can be used... But these simple fact would force me to buy a mixer. A bit of a non-sens as, in these project, I want to use the hoontech as a mixer. The use of the monitoring output can't even be considered as a solution, let say a workaround. And last but not least I was thinking for the ADCIII only as an interface, but this my problem...
Or maybe, yes!! Can I route internally an output to an input of the card??? that could do the trick...

Anyway, thank's for the info.

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Message 87/117 04-Sep-00 @ 12:39 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

point being

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yea, or you could ta|

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Message 88/117 04-Sep-00 @ 01:06 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

adams04

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Thanx K
I just don,t have enough cash for a hw sampler too.Thats why i want to know about Gigastudio.The driver updates don,t sound too convincing as,apparently,vst won,t run with the Asio drivers and Gigastudio.
I,m currently checking Aark,Sek,d and Egosys.Oh and the Delta,but that needs Hubis.
I think the Wami rack may now have got a fix;and i,m waiting to hear from Sek,d.
The most popular ,reliable choice seems to be the Aark.
I already have a 32 midi track software card based sampler that works ok,so i want to upgrade ,not start bug finding etc.
Hope Hoontech can tell us the whole story.

Cheers Guru.

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Message 89/117 04-Sep-00 @ 02:54 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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no no - you can monitor the softsynth at the same time as vst audio using the rack headphones or audio out cos you can sum all the drivers to a single stereo OUT.... but you just cant integrate into VST mixer unless you route IN to the rack using the asio drivers (to get any realtime fx) - This is NOT hoontech's fault, but just cos the giga etc dont integrate into vst - so without hoontech (or any other multi-I/O card), you would still need another pair of audio drivers to monitor both proggies at once - it's just a compromise for working with seperate programmes - there is no way round it...

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Message 90/117 04-Sep-00 @ 04:12 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

adams04

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Aah,so u calling Gsampler a sw synth.
OK.
So i,d still be just using vst on audio files like i can now?
Using Gsampler with dsp24 instead of the hsp64 and its sampler?
Well,i could still route the audio outs back to my mixer and add fx there right?
For what i,m expecting cash -wise,the hoontech is so great,if the easi drivers are ok.I just sampled a lot of Chic guitars so that and maybe drums too are all i need a sampler for now.
I have 64 voices on the XP30 .
I really just want sampling and an ability to have a more seperate mix,different fx ,etc.
I,m getting the MOFX midi sync fx box in hardware,then a little YammieMX12/4,which seems very versatile.Then i,ll add the poontech and Gsampler,with finally that upgrade to the Celery 566@850.
This will give me a lot more mixing options ,fx in real time and more stability.
FYI; i had an Isis with Asio,but i still prefer my older card on MME.I didn,t notice a difference,tho i didn,t test the audio ...
I can get the s^pootech 4 under 400quid so thats cool.
Gsampler have a new version so i choose the 96 voice 32 channel,thats way big enough 4 me.Its got fx and filters now.
Still,i was quite happy just using Cool 2000 last week.

Have to phone on a swap deal in Paris tomorrow.
Hope to have this achieved by Xmas.

Cheers Guru.ps _will u still mail me about my cd? i,d very much like some comments on the mix.Also,if anyone u know is interested in publishing?..;.;

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Message 91/117 04-Sep-00 @ 06:11 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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Hi guys,

some comments about the recent messages:

VIA chipset support: the card works fine with all modern chipsets, including the VIA Apollo, KT133 and KX133 (the three most famous ones probably). There is no reason that these chipsets are causing problems when using the card (this does not mean that there are no other recording cards with such compatibility problems available). This of course includes Athlon support. We recommend to use mainboards with Intel 440BX chipsets (Asus P3B-F, Abit BH-6, etc.) simply because this is still the best chipset available on the market. It works perfectly and no one needs to provide any updates or bug fixes for such mainboards. However, with some of the VIA chipset boards you can get installation problems (or sometimes even performance problems) unless you are not using the latest chipset drivers and BIOS revisions for it. When you install the patches, it will work fine with all popular mainboards. There is no known incompatiblity between the card any any modern mainboard.

GigaSampler support (GSIF): the current GSIF driver implementation is not multiclient. This means that you cannot use Cubase VST or Logic Audio at the same time as GigaSampler or -Studio when you're using the audio functions of your sequencer. One of the next driver updates for the DSP24 is going to change that. This has nothing to do with the implementation / usage of other software synthesizers (yes, GigaSampler is a softsynth) as no other famous one uses a specific own driver interface. Apart from that we cannot recommend to use GigaSampler or -Studio on the same system with the same hardware simply because of performance problems. You will not be able to use a decent row of plugins inside Logic/Cubase while playing several instruments over GigaSampler. In this case you surly cannot use both programs (GS + Sequencer) to it's limits, even with the fastest system. When you're working seriously, you really should consider to get a separate computer for GigaSampler (check the Nemesys webpage and FAQ for this). Additionally, GigaSampler does not support to route signals directly into Cubase or Logic.

pricing and availibility: please go to www.hoontech.com -> distributor list and contact the local distributor for your country. They will surly help you to find a shop near to you who sells the product and they can inform you about the pricing in your country.

'virtual audio ports' (jdifool): it is indeed difficult to do that and in fact, with this hardware it is not possible. Software-only solutions should give performance problems and are out of question. The only hardware that supports this is Pulsar (which cannot be compared to the DSP24 at all). However, the DSP24 contains a mixer (External Mixer) for all in- and output channels. The output of this mixer can be recorded via MME or ASIO. This means that one 'virtual comnnecion' with up to 20 channels mixed down to stereo is possible.

VST-plugins / ReWire (jdifool): even if you think that most VST-plugins are like toys, I can see what you mean but I don't agree (I never would consider Model E, PPG or B4 to name some examples as toys ...). Reaktor as VST-plugin in fact does not support all functions compared to the stand-alone version. This is cased by limitations of the VST-plugin strucutre. According to my knowledge, that should be possible now with Cubase VST 5.0 and I'm sure that Reaktor will be updated accordingly. VAZ Modular (not VAZ+) should be available as VST plugin already!? When I last talked to Software Techonology (Februar this year) it was under development. It's very simple: if you're developing a software-synthesizer these days and you want to be able to sell it, you either need a 'revolutionary concept' (probably like GigaSampler) or you need to support VST or ReWire. Both interfaces are easy to implement (esp. easier than DirectX related stuff).

ville: I could not follow the discussion between K and yourself at all(I assume most of it has been done by private email?). Please contact me directly if you have any problems using the card in full duplex mode (simultaneous recording and playback of the same channels is of course possible!). Just describe it as detailed as possible. It surly has nothing to do with a used VIA chipset ... (after all I heard so far).

Best regards,

Claus

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Message 92/117 05-Sep-00 @ 03:38 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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I mailed you personally claus about clicking.

What signal does rack headphone out play? Where you set it up? I noticed yesterday that it seems to play outputs 1 and 2 on all settings. My system is all a mess now and i didn't have time to go more into that but that seemed to be the case.
Does it monitor ins or out when working duplex?
I'll have to try that what you K suggested...

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Message 93/117 05-Sep-00 @ 07:15 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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but wait up - obviosuly i have also doubts about a PC properly handling gigasampler & a fully running VST or Logic etc with fx... but, why cant he use the 8 rack outs/asio for the vst & run giga sampler using the card drivers for stereo out at the same time from GS ?....i mean surely he can do that as he could run an editor at the same time ??... why you say he cannot Claus (apart from the stress on the pc running both realistically)?

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Message 94/117 05-Sep-00 @ 08:20 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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Is there any ADC boxes which you could recommend? What manufacturers i should be looking?

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Message 95/117 05-Sep-00 @ 01:04 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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midiman make some, prolly hoontech also, i didn't check

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Message 96/117 05-Sep-00 @ 01:57 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

Defector Z

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Yeah - hoontech has a ADC. Check their site. They also have DAC. Separate units.

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Message 97/117 05-Sep-00 @ 04:49 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

adams04

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Thanx 4 that Claus.
Any idea at all when i might be able to run vst and Gstudio?
What about K,s suggestion then?
I,m getting a new desk thursday,so i will be able to run 8 outs back to 8 ins.Where does it all go then!?
Seeriously,i just need to replace the shaky Maxi HSP64 with a very good audio /midi card and add sampling.
Maybe i,ll just have to wait another year til say an A3000 IS cheap sh.
Not forgetting the added Zip,the added Scsi adaptor pc card,more memory 4 the Yammie .
I have such a tight budget, ahem.
At this time,the only card i would buy if i had the wonga would be the Aark Direct Pro,if i was desperate to use Gstudio.But i,m not.I,m just trying to find the "budget"card /sampler combo.
The sampler would be mostly 4 guitar one shots,and drums.I don,t need loads of Midi channels,or loads of voices.
Any more ieas K,Claus?,.

Thanx anyway Guru.

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Message 98/117 05-Sep-00 @ 05:24 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

point being

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y not sequence the audio in vst?

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Message 99/117 05-Sep-00 @ 06:21 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

point being

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oh yea, if you are doing one hits, then you can copy and paste the audio in vst, and for yout drums you can use d-005 plugin.. which is very cheap and very usefull for drums.. heck, soundforge and dr-005 make a VERY powerfull combo

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Message 100/117 05-Sep-00 @ 06:52 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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man, i'd have to try this, but i doubt this box'll run vst & giga at once... but in theory, i can't see why not, assign the s/pdif OUT to the giga, and then route the spdif to the audio IN with the s/w patchbay... mebbe that'll do it, shoirt of looping the s/pdif thu a converter & back to the rack to record... but you can surely also use the cards monitor analog stereo I/O... i can't see why not, cos it'll play other proggies while the rack is busy in vst ok.

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Message 101/117 06-Sep-00 @ 05:16 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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K - When recording to new track i selected "DSP24 intern. in" from drop down list but playback was still clicking. SHIT!!!!!!!!! my nerves... You know it was fine for about 4 seconds and i allready thought there it was, but then that annoying little snap came. It doesn't happen on all tracks... I have hihat, bd and everything else from a rhythm on separate tracks (i.e. samples) so when i mute "everything else" from drum part (snare, percussion and shit) it doesn't happen (except later when arpeggiating synth with filter sweeps kicks in later). Is oviously happens only on certain upper frequencies.

I wonder if this is because of the chipset... becqause i'm ready to go and sell my mobo&processor and get one with intel 440BX if it's what it take. I *dont* want spend money and end up having the same problem tho.
I'm thinking of buying Aopen AX6BC or AX6B and celeron/PIII.
Anything bad to say about Aopen?-Anyone?

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Message 102/117 06-Sep-00 @ 06:59 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

adams04

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Ok K
I don,t think i care that much!
The only bad mark the reviewer gave was 4 the unbalanced connectors.Any comments?
Apart from that,he says its a "winning combo".
Sigh.

Cheers Guru.

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Message 103/117 06-Sep-00 @ 08:33 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

rouge

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Theres something i don't quite understand. When i had my Gina, if i wanted to split up the outputs then i would have to use the multimedia or direct x drivers (via VST) and therefore lose all use of ASIO features. So, if i only wanna use outs 1 to 4 in VST and the other for other apps will i lose the use of ASIO features?

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Message 104/117 06-Sep-00 @ 08:58 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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hey guess what??.. it also doesnt wake you up in the morning make your cappaccino and give you a Class_A blow-job !!!!...

what can i say... you have a 300 quid 24 bit/96k card/rack that'll allow you to input anything in realtime & add s/w fx live... and still you want more... you are just going to have to accept that giga & reaktor etc dont work in rewire... so work out a way to do it -

as for the non BX boards... what can i say... it sounds to me more like you are clipping the input to get that high end popping, but how can i tell?... why on earth WOULD you need to record these outputs back into the rack?.. dont they stream to audio ?.. import the audio after composition - whilst composing, use the cards stereo monitor I/O to listen as you create alongside the rack's VST out - try that - OR get a dedicated s/h Pentium or whatever to run Reaktor etc - if it REALLY is that good surely it deserves a dedicated box, after all, others are using hardware, and are prepared to pay for it... so i guess a little investment in your cause is required... but you cant seriously expect your pc to run a multitrack recording session with fx, eq & mixing and at the same time run a top flight multi synth/sampler... thats just loony-toons. patterns and simple lines from s/w synths, imported into vst etc fine.

incidently - further to this DT-CD thing, i received a CD from a guy in Brixton last week, all done 100% with acid and a few s/w synths... wicked CD !!!!... all done with a cheap-assed stereo soundcard, BUT, trust me.. if you'd bought & paid for that CD, you'd be happy !!!... really good music...

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Message 105/117 06-Sep-00 @ 11:33 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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K-your last post goes over my head.

i'm not sure if you ment me... i do have to record signal back to rack because I want to use my outboard mixer/fx/comp.

i'm positive about the fact that it clips on the outputs. Even if i don't have anything connected to the rack ins i get that when pressing record.

hmmm... i'm confused (maybe my english i decreasing rapidly) but.. I dont' have reaktor, i don't use any software fx.

If i misunderstood ignore me...

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Message 106/117 06-Sep-00 @ 12:25 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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wellllll..... nsorry mate, but if routing back to the s/pdif or card doesnt work, then i dunno, it's a limitation of the fact you want to use a s/w synth to try to replace a proper synth, which is... mmmm... not on really imho - a small s/w synth YES, but a main peoper one multitimbrel etc??.. i think thats asking too much mebbe - i only say this cos I DONT want to say to you 'buy a BX board'... you might change it all and still have a problem -

my post illustrates that MAKING music is FAR preferable to spending all year trying to do something you just cant do and hoping it'll work and NOT making music - it was aimed at anyone using non integrating s/w synths and trying weird & wacky ways to try to work a compromise with them. - - i cant test this out YET, if you want me to do so,

1. i need giga sampler same version

2. i need a new P3 machine

3. it'll be a few weeks till i get the new PC...

then if it doesnt work , it still MIGHT not be your mobbo ...

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Message 107/117 06-Sep-00 @ 12:57 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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I DON'T use software synths!!

well i do use VAZ but only by exporting creations as audio file and then bring the audio to Acid Pro.
I sort of gave up and just waiting for some to try HOONTECH with acid and to tell me how it's working. It's just that friend gave his compressor to me for a week and i wanted to master my tracks.
Tonite is actually first time for months when I'm doing something new.

I still don't think that excpecting too much if i wantcomputer just to act as an 8 track by playing back wav files. No fx no s/w synths just to play them back and record one input at the same time. I'll compare prices of new mobo, processor and DAT.

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Message 108/117 06-Sep-00 @ 08:21 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

adams04

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Hi Ville
Just to say i have an AbitBH6 with a Celeron overclocked to 450;its great.
You could try getting maybe a later model from Abit and sticking a 566 mhz Celeron on and get it to run no probs at 850.
I,m planning on that as a future upgrade.
Is your Athlon still under guarantee?Mebbe u could get the shop to change it.
I got a funny feeling that it could be a mobo problem you,re getting.

K, i like making me own java and i am deffo getting an A3000!
Now its just between Sekd with a Samplitude bundle or Hoontech.
Anyway,don,t confuse me;)
I only use vst no other softs.The sounds are external or from my sampler on the soundcard.
Yeah,i know i,ve bin bangin on a bit,its cos i,m so skint!
Anyway,like i said i,m cool now .
Oh i also got an interesting offer on a collaboration,so,maybe i,ll even earn some dosh soon.....
Is the manual easy to understand heh heh?
Cheers Guru.

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Message 109/117 06-Sep-00 @ 11:30 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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sorry ville... i just dont want to say 'yes get the pc bits' and it makes no difference... did you try recording back IN to the card-based inputs?... you compare to 8 track...but with 8 tracks you generally dont record onto a track that is trying to play back at the same time... what happens if you playback acid from 6 outputs of the rack, and record back into two un-used ones.

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Message 110/117 07-Sep-00 @ 12:13 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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Yup... i now what you mean.
I'm just so frustrated 'cos i want to get this thing running without wierd problems. I'll stop whining here and just wait 'till someone tries it in a similar situation.
I tried that allready. no difference.

I'll get back to making music...

Where's claus? He asked me to mail him but I haven't gotten reply.

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Message 111/117 10-Sep-00 @ 07:29 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

claus

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Hi guys,

sorry ... as mentioned earlier, I'm full of work sometimes. Here's some update with comments:

ville: check the mail I've sent to you and inform me about the results.

headphone output: exactly, the headphone output plays 1:1 the same signal as output 1,2. If you want to have all channels mixed on it, you need to connect the External Mixer to output 1,2 as well. In some applications (like Cubase or Logic) you can do this all inside the app.

GigaSampler multiclient support: this update (that allows you to run GigaSampler and VST/Logic on the same system without problems) should be available in two to three months, probably less.

Best regards,

Claus

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Message 112/117 15-Sep-00 @ 08:17 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

adams04

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Hi K
Could u just explain the unbalanced inputs on the breakout box?I don,t get that.I guess i,ve always used balanced cables,and the Folio manual bangs on about unbalanced cables too,so i don,t want to screw any of my gear up by doing something dumb.Like switching to the submix when i had it up full_ ow!
I now have a soundcraft FolioSX!
The A3K is in the post,i,m ordering the Celeron now and i found the Hoontech in Paris at a cool price!!
Just a simple what do i need to do,buy would be cool.

Thanx Guru.

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Message 113/117 16-Sep-00 @ 07:09 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

ville

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It has 8 ins and 8 outs.
On first two ins you can use either 1/8" unbalanced jacks or balnced XLRs. there's also gain knobs for ins 1 and 2. All the other ones are unbalanced.
otherwise i didn't quite get your question.
balanced are lee noisy than unbalanced. how much.... i'm not sure.

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Message 114/117 16-Sep-00 @ 08:07 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

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unless you are using alot of long cables (like real long) it makes no odd's really in a home studio.

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Message 115/117 16-Sep-00 @ 10:47 AM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

aaron

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i dont know, you should be making sure you get enough vitamin c.. hmmm c++ = c +1 DUH!!!! i hate miss liu.. she doesnt teach, she bitches

.. ANYYYYWAYYYYY...

also has two balenced xlr's ont he out, no?

also, depending on how much mooola you got, you could buy the dacIII box to have 8 balenced outs..

yea.. you know how mteal wire can act as an antenna? the third wire in balenced cables takes all the extra shit, and tosses it out of the picture.. BUT.. unless you are running for hella long distances, the wire is not going to pick up that much at all.

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Message 116/117 16-Sep-00 @ 03:36 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

adams04

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Right thats settled then.
Any reason not to go ahead and buy on Monday then?
Apparently,there is a problem with getting hold of the DSP2000.They got 4 left at my dealers in Paris(8 hour return journey from Geneva),so the last delivery was May.The price will go up too,so,i,ll buy now unless anyone has suddenly found a terrible driver hassle etc etc .

Have anice Weekend.

Guru.(come on you Blues)

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Message 117/117 28-Sep-01 @ 07:09 PM Edit: 28-Sep-01 | 07:10 PM - RE: K - How's hoontech?

dARKSTATe

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Okay.. so resurrecting this thread a year late, but just popped quickly into Turdkey to see if I could get them to match/beat the �277 price that's been going round, and "Mr I'm a Salesperson who knows more than you" decided to tell me plainly that the Hoontech was "crap" and that I should purchase a Delta 1010 WTF?! When I pushed him to qualify WHY the Hoontech was crap, he gave a typically ignorant answer that "They just were, and noisy too"...

Now after reading EVERYTHING here on DT about this thing, it seems kick arsed and just right for what I'm after.. For completeness however, *are* there any other competing cards/packages for this price point???

I guess I'm buying this sucker anyway but just thought I'd ask..

Marc_D

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