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Subject: automation problem

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Original Message 1/16 06-Dec-01 @ 04:20 PM - automation problem

tetsuo2

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I am working on a track and I can no longer record knob movements from audio instruments (exs24 or anything else). also, they wont respond to my drawn in cc messages, where they used to. and no I did not add any other plugins to the track... I am wondering if i deleted something by accident in the environment?

I am using logic 4.81 and mac os 9.2.2

oh and btw, automating works just fine on the autoload, so obviously something is amiss in just that song...

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Message 2/16 06-Dec-01 @ 04:46 PM - RE: automation problem

bedwyr

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hey, no answers, but i've never been able to automate audio instruments. which is a big pisser. me 4.81 on pc. logic just won't listen to hyper draw, it will record it right, but it doesn't play back at all. boo! everythings fine on other types of track though.

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Message 3/16 07-Dec-01 @ 11:49 AM - RE: automation problem

xoxos

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that is one complicated piece of s/w.. i had a similar problem with just one song that kept jumping my controllers around in the middle of sequences. never did figure it out. try grabbing all of the tracks and copying them to another song?? working solution.

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Message 4/16 03-Jan-02 @ 11:23 AM - RE: automation problem

bedwyr

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grrr! i still can't do it. i've even read the manual. whatever next? it still records the automation from my exs24 (like when i move the cutoff) i can see it in hyperdraw but when i play back the cutoff doesn't move. doesn't work in my autoload either. reinstall?

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Message 5/16 04-Jan-02 @ 11:02 AM - RE: automation problem

xoxos

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maybe you'll take pity on me because of my welsh heritage and help me out with my question tho..

i look at a piece of s/w like logic, right? and it's all big, right? and powerful, like bull, right? and you'd expect..

but it's like, if i go into my nord lead environment and tick one of the fader icons to make it available in the arrange window, then i like go into the arrange window.. don't you think there's gotsta be some kind of way to go into hyperdraw on that track, for that fader value, w/o the labourious assign-param-# process? i mean like in the environment the fader # is already set up, right, but auto-assign won't go from the fader cc#, only from midi data on that track, which sours my appetite.

and i'm getting the feeling it *can* be done, but it's a big secret. i'm talking cute here and everything.

look it's not every day you get to laugh at someone this smart!

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Message 6/16 04-Jan-02 @ 03:54 PM - RE: automation problem

bedwyr

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this annoys the hell out of me. i havn't found a way around it. i want to set my faders on the mixer in logic and when i decide to do some hyperdraw i don't want to fk around getting the right hyperdraw value for the original fader level. i think logic 5 will sort this out coz the automation is a bit more flexible. maybe i should just write a table with cc value to db on it.

no, i can't be bothered.

the other way is to do everything with hyperdraw from the start. bollox.

auto assign? what's auto define? r we talking about the same pain in the arse?

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Message 7/16 09-Jan-02 @ 12:09 PM - RE: automation problem

Steve Roughley

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Bedwyr, it sounds like you may have assigned the wrong MIDI channel for the Instrument Object. It should be channel 1 (if not, have you contacted Emagic support about this?).

If you want to set the track faders and work with the hyperdraw/MIDI values, all you need to do is go to your environment, select the track you wish to automate and in the Audio Object properties panel change the 'Val as' setting from 'dB' to 'Num'. The Audio track fader will now display the Hyperdraw/MIDI values instead of dB.

Steve :=)

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Message 8/16 09-Jan-02 @ 02:44 PM - RE: automation problem

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agreed... enever found a way to have that default when you open the fader value... right pain... is there a way currently cos it's a big oversight if not and always confused me cos logicaly you'd assume a track assigned to a fader would default to it's setting object ?... autodefine seems to do zip. Anyways, IF they sort that out then Logic 5 will rule over VST ... more.

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Message 9/16 09-Jan-02 @ 02:58 PM - RE: automation problem

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what about 'select used instruments' ?... this should default to the 'assigned track-instrument' so the manual says...
(which would be the fader etc right!)

sadly my logic' test version has screwed up and wont run right now, cannot see why, so I cant do any more tests on it right now until they sort it out & it's bloody irritating. cannot for the life of me see what is wrong, re-installing doesnt do it no matter what is done to strip out the old version. I think it's something to do with FM7 possibly cos it started when that was installed.

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Message 10/16 09-Jan-02 @ 06:25 PM - RE: automation problem

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aha...... ok fixed that problem & can open logic... ok it's easy BUT sadly you dont get auto-define in the ARRANGE-PAGE hyperdraw until you've already inputted some fader/controller movement.

so in this example, I have my environment setup with a fader. The fader is assigned OUT to controller_71 (resonance) - the fader Input is assigned to Mod-wheel (cc_1) - ok... so the fader icon is TICKED in the environment so it appears for track/instrument selection on the arrange-page.

ok... so on the arrange page select/assign the fader to a track...

In this example i have double-clicked on the fader assigned track header to open the environment layer with the fader on it. This is minimised alongside the Arrange screen for easy access to the fader with the mouse, but equaly I could simply control this with my mod wheeel on the master keyboard or whatever assigned hardware controller assigned to the fader Input on the envirnment layer...

ok... so, highlight the track.... hit record.... move the fader/controller and as the cursor scolls right the recorded data displays as vertical bars in grey......

after recording, simply hit the F3 key... zazoom!!... instant hyperdraw!!!... you can then drag this part to be longer and the hyperdraw drags out wider with the part... sadly tho if you create a part manualy (empty) with the pencil on the arrange page it doesn't allow instant F3 key default to hyperraw (autodefine) taking it's parameter from the assigned track/fader... it seems that for auto-define to work one needs some data in there first.... In practical use this seems ok as one probably would assign a manual hardware controller to the required faders and manualy do the automation , then tweak it in edit mode afterwards....

For use like that, auto-define (F3) works great....

SO, to MANUALY input controller data in the first instance, one must assign ones fader to a track header, click to create a blank part, then use the quick key command: SHIFT/F3 to open the controller assignment box & set the controller... once that is done, then when you open the part in your piano-roll edit, a simple click on F3 after opening the piano-roll will set the display to the assigned controller.

Sure, if Emagic update this to auto define BEFORE any data is added based on the object assigned , then fine, but think about it... if a usual/normal instrument is assigned to a track, then F3 is hit, there is nothing it can choose to assign is there!!... so one needs to input data first at the moment...

by the way... in hyperdraw, F1 is volume (instant default without adding data first) - & F2 opens the pan hyperdraw... this happens in both arrange page & piano roll, so we can see from this that where there is a defined parameter (in these two cases fixed for Volume & pan) it works....

The F1 & F2 keys give good quick access to pan & volume for vector style editing (the most accurate)... the autodefine works once data is in the part to actualy be auto-defined...

so thats that ... seems good, works. the only irritating part is that the F3 has to be hit every time you open the editor or the highlighted part on the arrtange page, it doesn't auto-flip as you change your selection.

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I had an idea for a script once. It's basically Jaws except when the guys in the boat are going after Jaws, they look around and there's an even bigger Jaws. The guys have to team up with Jaws to get Bigger Jaws.... I call it... Big Jaws!!!

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Message 11/16 09-Jan-02 @ 06:26 PM - RE: automation problem

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ok.... so, part_1... assign a track to an object... (s/w or hardware assigned input/thru)

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Message 12/16 09-Jan-02 @ 06:27 PM - RE: automation problem

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part_2 - hit record & record some fader move with the mouse, or hardware controller (OR MANUALY define the Controller to access hyperdraw)

record the moves which appear as vertical bars...

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Message 13/16 09-Jan-02 @ 06:29 PM Edit: 09-Jan-02 | 06:30 PM - RE: automation problem

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after record, with the same part highlighted, hit the F3 key and the vector editing appears ready to tweak....

if you want to edit in piano roll , simply open that but remember to hit F3 AFTER opening to set the auto-define

You can whilst editing F3 assigned data quickly flip to F1 & F2 for pan & volume and back again to F3 for your auto-defined data.

hope that helps a bit..

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Message 14/16 09-Jan-02 @ 06:39 PM Edit: 09-Jan-02 | 07:07 PM - RE: automation problem

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by the way - use the magnifying glass tool for instant zoom in to a hyperdraw area from a minimised part (thin in depth with only the title showing)

simply draw with the mag' tool round the part-area & release for zoom in (works for multiple parts too & always zooms in to the draw-around area, NOT the cursor position) - also zoom seems to be affected by also holding down CONTROL key (CTRL) - use SHIFT and click with the same tool to zoom back out again to normal arrange zoom.

the smaller the area you drag around the larger the zoom in of course... but select a too-small selection & nothing happens, it seems to default to one bar size minimum.

anyways - with a reasonable hardware controller box or just your master keyboard etc or even with the pencil-tool, drawing in controller-moves and editing them should be fast & intuitive, although yes improvements could be made... but ahving vector style editing on the arrange page is better than VST's method with the little vertical bars which are rubbish it has to be said.

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Message 15/16 09-Jan-02 @ 10:44 PM - RE: automation problem

bedwyr

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wow! thanks k, i'll try that later to-nite. da iawn.

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Message 16/16 10-Jan-02 @ 03:50 PM - RE: automation problem

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by the way, this technique of course works for your audio tracks faders etc.... use the A PLAYBACK (1-16) or B PLAYBACK (17-24) tracks.... select one of them... flip to your audio mixer environment layer - hit record and move the fader for the required channel.

go back to arrange page to see the part containing the mixer move... hit F3 and envelope appears ready to tweak... with multiple channels on the same merged part simply flip the F3 key to cycle round the various recorded channels fader moves.

This gives you SONAR-like envelope control on the arrange page for mixing parameters.

If you dont want to merge data copy the A PLAYBACK track as many times as you need it & re-title them for the required audio tracks you wish to automate, one for each channel if you like - you can keep them all in a FOLDER track for easy handling.

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