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Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: SX?
Original Message Date: 26-Aug-02 @ 11:58 PM - SX?
ok, so i tried SX about a month or so back.... i wasn't impressed. sure, it has lots of nice features, you can see your little fader guy in the arrange window, pretty nicely laid out and all. but to be honest, it ran like shit...
i have an Athlon 1800XP with 512 of RAM and 2 7200rpm harddrives. i could get a handful of pluggins going, a soft synth or two, and the audio engine would get all dodgy - every time i bring up the mixer, it would slowly draw in one strip at a time while the audio stuttered. when i tried to save on the fly, it would stutter. so overall the performance during playback was pretty wank.
the redraw issues might have something to do with my dual-head Matrox Vid card, but regardless, this is a system where i had Logic 5 running perfectly smooth with over 20 plugs, some of which were Waves, and about 5 or 6 virtual synths (including Absynth!).
so, overall, i was not impressed. originally being of the frame of mind that i best start learning Cubase SX since Emagic has shacked up with Apple, i gave it a shot. but now im convinced that i can still get a good year out of Logic 5.2, barring no more PC updates, before i need to jump ship to either Mac, Cubase or even back to good ole Sonar.
am i the only one having these problems, or are other Cubase SX users banging their heads against their desks?
i have an Athlon 1800XP with 512 of RAM and 2 7200rpm harddrives. i could get a handful of pluggins going, a soft synth or two, and the audio engine would get all dodgy - every time i bring up the mixer, it would slowly draw in one strip at a time while the audio stuttered. when i tried to save on the fly, it would stutter. so overall the performance during playback was pretty wank.
the redraw issues might have something to do with my dual-head Matrox Vid card, but regardless, this is a system where i had Logic 5 running perfectly smooth with over 20 plugs, some of which were Waves, and about 5 or 6 virtual synths (including Absynth!).
so, overall, i was not impressed. originally being of the frame of mind that i best start learning Cubase SX since Emagic has shacked up with Apple, i gave it a shot. but now im convinced that i can still get a good year out of Logic 5.2, barring no more PC updates, before i need to jump ship to either Mac, Cubase or even back to good ole Sonar.
am i the only one having these problems, or are other Cubase SX users banging their heads against their desks?
Message 21/26 08-Sep-02 @ 10:29 AM - RE: SX?
Hey Influx.. no need to doubt.. Its about what you're used to working with!
I see SX as an extension of VST.. I've used Cubase since back in the early Atari ST days and the learning curve for me is non-existant.. BUT, and I read this in a review and tend to agree with it, I find SX a very "elegant" application to use.
Having not really dabbled in Logic or Sonar, I can't compare the user interfaces of the two but I know what VST could do before, and I know SX can do now and it does pretty much everything I want a DAW to do... and of course, all of the vendors will bring out a new version of these apps with even more features you never thought of but soon won't be able to live without...
;-)
Guess that's just the way it rolls.. now get back to your computer and WRITE SOME MUSIC!! lol
Marc_D
I see SX as an extension of VST.. I've used Cubase since back in the early Atari ST days and the learning curve for me is non-existant.. BUT, and I read this in a review and tend to agree with it, I find SX a very "elegant" application to use.
Having not really dabbled in Logic or Sonar, I can't compare the user interfaces of the two but I know what VST could do before, and I know SX can do now and it does pretty much everything I want a DAW to do... and of course, all of the vendors will bring out a new version of these apps with even more features you never thought of but soon won't be able to live without...
;-)
Guess that's just the way it rolls.. now get back to your computer and WRITE SOME MUSIC!! lol
Marc_D
Message 22/26 08-Sep-02 @ 11:17 PM - RE: SX?
yeah, Sox was saying how you zip around on SX Marc, and said you showed him some good stuff, good learning session... Like Sox said, you really need a someone to start you out with a few things, a good guided tour type thing when you get a new s/w you don't know, and it's true... it really helps... it is what you're used to as well of course... Logic has it's irritants too for sure, some things i'd definately change on it.
Message 23/26 09-Sep-02 @ 09:08 AM - RE: SX?
Always happy to help out a mate - Sox is gonna have it licked in no time.. some of the comfy things in VST5.1 have been moved around, but the core is still there (including those keyboard shortcuts!)
I gotta admit, I'd prefer it if Steinberg would just print the damn manual instead of leaving it as PDF but the design of SX is getting there, so that it is pretty intuitive to pick up..
As for Logic, I've been reading how Steinberg are trying to court logic users by offering them a damn cheap "cross-grade" offer... and Apple are trying to court PC Logic users by offering them incentives to move to the Mac...
Where will it all end??
Marc_D
Message 24/26 30-Oct-02 @ 11:54 AM - RE: SX?
hmm... started spending some time with it & already I have some queries (marc?)
overall, I like some things, and not others. The tool selector is now more crap, because when you right-click to see the menu you must move the mouse so much further to select the desired tool - but the toolbar select on the top helps to aleviate this somewhat.
I really like the fact a selected track on the arrange page can show the mixer channel and other parts on the left column, but was pissed to find I still must open windows to insert a VSTi or FX etc and once again, they will NOT stay on top and have no option to stay on top that I can see.
I kinda like it, but for me the mixer is clumsy with so many possible mixer panel views and options to open so many related boxes...
One thing I cannot find is an audio driver window (old VST audio/system)
??
is it missing?
the mix automation - i found the tools for curving the lines really weird... is it me?... or can you not choose a tool like 'sine' etc and bend a line between nodes..?.. it seem to bend the whole visible line thing in the edit screen lower area? - I tried various combinations of using CTRL, ALT & SHIFT, but that didnt do it... and is there any way to get a grid on the control area below tracks to assist in lining up nodes to beats & divisions of beats exactly?
I did like the ability to hit WRITE and see the nodes go in as you move a fader etc...
i dunno... I just think it could have been so much better layout wise - but it looks nice... need alot more time with it tho.
overall, I like some things, and not others. The tool selector is now more crap, because when you right-click to see the menu you must move the mouse so much further to select the desired tool - but the toolbar select on the top helps to aleviate this somewhat.
I really like the fact a selected track on the arrange page can show the mixer channel and other parts on the left column, but was pissed to find I still must open windows to insert a VSTi or FX etc and once again, they will NOT stay on top and have no option to stay on top that I can see.
I kinda like it, but for me the mixer is clumsy with so many possible mixer panel views and options to open so many related boxes...
One thing I cannot find is an audio driver window (old VST audio/system)
??
is it missing?
the mix automation - i found the tools for curving the lines really weird... is it me?... or can you not choose a tool like 'sine' etc and bend a line between nodes..?.. it seem to bend the whole visible line thing in the edit screen lower area? - I tried various combinations of using CTRL, ALT & SHIFT, but that didnt do it... and is there any way to get a grid on the control area below tracks to assist in lining up nodes to beats & divisions of beats exactly?
I did like the ability to hit WRITE and see the nodes go in as you move a fader etc...
i dunno... I just think it could have been so much better layout wise - but it looks nice... need alot more time with it tho.
Message 25/26 30-Oct-02 @ 12:38 PM Edit: 30-Oct-02 | 12:40 PM - RE: SX?
Hi K.. whoa, lots of questions there but I'll try and answer what I can (some of its more an intuition thing that's easier to explain with SX up infront of me) :-)
Anyway..
Yep, the toolbox is now much more clumsy, however due to its context sensitive nature (and the vastly increased number of functions per context it now offers) - I don't see how else they could have done it..
SX in arrange view mode, will either let you access features via the mixer or via the identical same buttons on the track inspector (the bit appearing on the left hand side) - unfortunately, even when using the track inspector to access features for a single track only (if, say, you're not using the mixer), this still spawns a window.
The "panel" can be made to stay on top, as can the VSTInstruments selector.. Instruments or FXplugs themselves unfortunately, can't be pinned like this (mebbe we can send it to Steinberg as a wishlist feature for 1.0.5??)
I'm running my SX on a 21" monitor @ 1600x1200 and I get a nice amount of screen real-estate but I can appreciate that some ppl on smaller displays WILL find it cumbersome! On a 17" LCD @ 1280x1024 it was looking like a tight squeeze... :-|
The AudioDriver section can be found under the "Setup Devices" option from the same menu where you can invoke the mixer, VSTinstruments etc(my memory escapes me what the actual menu item is though) - The item in the setupdevices that you're looking for is VST Multitrack...
I'll look into the automation side of things if I get a chance tonite...
All in all, the look and feel is definately one of those personal taste things... I didn't find it particularly clumsy and the learning curve for me, from VST5.1 was relatively slight! That said, I'm probably the kinda guy who'd be tearing his hair out with logic - simply coz I wasn't weaned on it.. :-)
Spend a litte more time with it if you can though K; on the whole, I think it rewards in spades, and they *are* still improving/developing the GUI too... (well, if the improvements on the last two updates are anything to go by)
Anyway..
Yep, the toolbox is now much more clumsy, however due to its context sensitive nature (and the vastly increased number of functions per context it now offers) - I don't see how else they could have done it..
SX in arrange view mode, will either let you access features via the mixer or via the identical same buttons on the track inspector (the bit appearing on the left hand side) - unfortunately, even when using the track inspector to access features for a single track only (if, say, you're not using the mixer), this still spawns a window.
The "panel" can be made to stay on top, as can the VSTInstruments selector.. Instruments or FXplugs themselves unfortunately, can't be pinned like this (mebbe we can send it to Steinberg as a wishlist feature for 1.0.5??)
I'm running my SX on a 21" monitor @ 1600x1200 and I get a nice amount of screen real-estate but I can appreciate that some ppl on smaller displays WILL find it cumbersome! On a 17" LCD @ 1280x1024 it was looking like a tight squeeze... :-|
The AudioDriver section can be found under the "Setup Devices" option from the same menu where you can invoke the mixer, VSTinstruments etc(my memory escapes me what the actual menu item is though) - The item in the setupdevices that you're looking for is VST Multitrack...
I'll look into the automation side of things if I get a chance tonite...
All in all, the look and feel is definately one of those personal taste things... I didn't find it particularly clumsy and the learning curve for me, from VST5.1 was relatively slight! That said, I'm probably the kinda guy who'd be tearing his hair out with logic - simply coz I wasn't weaned on it.. :-)
Spend a litte more time with it if you can though K; on the whole, I think it rewards in spades, and they *are* still improving/developing the GUI too... (well, if the improvements on the last two updates are anything to go by)
Message 26/26 04-Nov-02 @ 03:15 AM - RE: SX?
FX and VSTis CAN stay on top, everything but the mixer and channel strips, god knows why not
K - Audio driver window can be found in Devices/Device setup - multitrack
i find screen space to be similar to 5.1 on 1024x760 thats if you zoom to 1 row track heights, though you cant use it at 800x600 but who cares, 5.1 is awful at this res as well
K - Audio driver window can be found in Devices/Device setup - multitrack
i find screen space to be similar to 5.1 on 1024x760 thats if you zoom to 1 row track heights, though you cant use it at 800x600 but who cares, 5.1 is awful at this res as well
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