 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
 |
Forums - Computer music & technology
Subject: Why no DSP cards for DX
Original Message Date: 25-May-01 @ 07:14 PM - Why no DSP cards for DX
I understand that Sonar is the first professional grade direct x platform, but I would think companies like TC and creamware would would want to cash in on the success of this new platform, and it's potential. Also the new uad-1 is a nice looking plug-in based dsp card will run as vst and MAS.
Message 21/26 06-Jun-01 @ 09:07 PM - RE: Why no DSP cards for DX
well, the thing is i want to move into this as a career. I just graduated from college with a CIS degree and want to work in studio networking and post production facilities. I really want to learn protools hardware setups and data storage configuration. As for making your music better. there are plug-ins that sound so much better in TDM. Have you ever used protools? if you havn't i can understand your reluctantness to see it's benefits. When used with logic and the ESB, you can run protools and Logic. this allows you to use both VST and TDM plug-ins. the quality of TDM Lexiverb is renound through the recording industry. Wave mechanics audio suit lets you mangle and bend pitch all over the place and time strech in a way that native stuff doesn't. I am going to do it much cheaper than you think. You will hear my music when it is released, when i am done with this break beat track I am doing in Sonar, I will probably press it as a single with a progressive house track i finished last month. Believe me, protools is no joke, and you can not compete with it on a native system. You have to hear it in person. i worked on a play's sound track at a school protools lab a few months back and i made up my mind that it was where i was going. I would like to eventualy do post production work. I don't plan on making dance tracks in my bedroom forever. protools is the project environment by choice of all the pros. Everytime you hear about some producer using cubase, or logic, they forget to tell you he is running it on protools hardware, and if he ins't he is using really expensive outboard like chicane and just using it to sequence the midi. Don't be naive. hit tracks are not done on native stand alone systems. and if they are, it's rare.
Message 22/26 06-Jun-01 @ 09:24 PM - RE: Why no DSP cards for DX
hey jamey, very nice tracks, deep and dark like i like it. But please don't take this the wrong way as it may be the mp3 encoding, but there is something sonicly to be desired in there.Now listen to a Hybrid remix of BT or somthing, and tell me you can't hear the added clarity and head room in the highs and lows. the TDM mixer has so much more room than the VST mixer, or Sonar. It's like mixing records on a Rane, and then mixing on a Numark. The croud can't hear the diferance, but on the DAT you made you sure as hell can. You are talented, i loved the track "anything". I had a Nord modular. I sold it. I use a Nova, MKS-80, EMU-e4, dx-100, 01v, DSP factory,Cubase/Sonar waves Gold Bundle. roland DS-90 monitors. I have heard Reaktor fat. Where do you get your drums. I need good live kits for breaks?
Message 23/26 06-Jun-01 @ 10:49 PM - RE: Why no DSP cards for DX
thanks man.. i know my actual mixes are lacking... but thats my skills, not the tools.
"but there is something sonicly to be desired in there.Now listen to a Hybrid remix of BT or somthing, and tell me you can't hear the added clarity and head room in the highs and lows."
i agree and recently started (like this week) to reference against some bedrock/hooj stuff right off of cd. at least i can hear the difference so now i can learn to close the gap...
"the TDM mixer has so much more room than the VST mixer, or Sonar. It's like mixing records on a Rane, and then mixing on a Numark. The croud can't hear the diferance, but on the DAT you made you sure as hell can."
i disagree... its all about how you put your levels, do your eq, and spread your stereo. after that its about the insanely nice mastering jobs they do on the tracks. if you want to hear a very nice track that appears to have almost no mastering done to it check mainline - innerspace on bedrock. then for a comparison check bedrock - voices and you will hear that million dollar sound you are talking about. same label, different mastering/production jobs. the bedrock track was probably done in protools but i am willing to bet the mainline track wasn't. also the guys using protools tend to know a LOT more about mixing and eq and stereo than your average bedroom dj (me!)
"You are talented, i loved the track "anything"."
thanks, that one is actually coming out on vinyl in orlando soon (my buddys starting a label)
"I had a Nord modular. I sold it. I use a Nova, MKS-80, EMU-e4, dx-100, 01v, DSP factory,Cubase/Sonar waves Gold Bundle. roland DS-90 monitors. I have heard Reaktor fat."
nice setup!
"Where do you get your drums. I need good live kits for breaks? "
i would recomend dance mega drums 2... i didn't get the drums on 'anything' from dancemega drums 2 though, dunno where i got em really
"well, the thing is i want to move into this as a career. I just graduated from college with a CIS degree and want to work in studio networking and post production facilities. I really want to learn protools hardware setups and data storage configuration"
if thats the case then you will get your foot in the door much easier knowing protools inside out... also if you want to do post production work you will be doing it on protools for sure.
good luck man, sounds like you have a good plan to not get raped too bad by digidesign... god help you if you have to pay for the waves gold tdm version now tho!!! :-)
jamey
"but there is something sonicly to be desired in there.Now listen to a Hybrid remix of BT or somthing, and tell me you can't hear the added clarity and head room in the highs and lows."
i agree and recently started (like this week) to reference against some bedrock/hooj stuff right off of cd. at least i can hear the difference so now i can learn to close the gap...
"the TDM mixer has so much more room than the VST mixer, or Sonar. It's like mixing records on a Rane, and then mixing on a Numark. The croud can't hear the diferance, but on the DAT you made you sure as hell can."
i disagree... its all about how you put your levels, do your eq, and spread your stereo. after that its about the insanely nice mastering jobs they do on the tracks. if you want to hear a very nice track that appears to have almost no mastering done to it check mainline - innerspace on bedrock. then for a comparison check bedrock - voices and you will hear that million dollar sound you are talking about. same label, different mastering/production jobs. the bedrock track was probably done in protools but i am willing to bet the mainline track wasn't. also the guys using protools tend to know a LOT more about mixing and eq and stereo than your average bedroom dj (me!)
"You are talented, i loved the track "anything"."
thanks, that one is actually coming out on vinyl in orlando soon (my buddys starting a label)
"I had a Nord modular. I sold it. I use a Nova, MKS-80, EMU-e4, dx-100, 01v, DSP factory,Cubase/Sonar waves Gold Bundle. roland DS-90 monitors. I have heard Reaktor fat."
nice setup!
"Where do you get your drums. I need good live kits for breaks? "
i would recomend dance mega drums 2... i didn't get the drums on 'anything' from dancemega drums 2 though, dunno where i got em really
"well, the thing is i want to move into this as a career. I just graduated from college with a CIS degree and want to work in studio networking and post production facilities. I really want to learn protools hardware setups and data storage configuration"
if thats the case then you will get your foot in the door much easier knowing protools inside out... also if you want to do post production work you will be doing it on protools for sure.
good luck man, sounds like you have a good plan to not get raped too bad by digidesign... god help you if you have to pay for the waves gold tdm version now tho!!! :-)
jamey
Message 24/26 07-Jun-01 @ 12:28 AM - RE: Why no DSP cards for DX
LOL, i ambuying used for damn sure, but you have to be careful to purchase from the licensed party to transfer ownership. I have seen turn key setups for %-6 on G#'s and G4's. I am going to put the cash as I accumulate it into a protools fund, then when I find the right deal i will buy.
Message 25/26 07-Jun-01 @ 08:06 PM - RE: Why no DSP cards for DX
I agree that Pro-Tools is THE professional DAW, and nothing touches it for industry-wide acceptance and reliability, but consider these things:
I work in a major studio in Philadelphia, using great, vintage analog gear, 2" 24-track tape machines, and an SSL 9000j console. I also use Pro-Tools every single day, doing track dumps, editing, and full mixes. I know Pro-Tools very well and enjoy using it for a variety of audio tasks (especially when I have a hardware control surface... then it's just the bomb).
Still, even with all this great gear, I prefer to do my own music at home in Sonar. Even knowing all the keyboard shortcuts, even with a hardware control surface, I still can't move as fast in Pro-Tools as I can in Sonar. The sound quality between the two systems is so close that, unless you're producing audio for SACD or DVD-Audio, I would laugh at you if you said native systems can't cut it. Nowadays, they simply can and do work for professional-level audio.
As far as plug-ins go, I can't say that the quality of sound is that much better in Pro-Tools. PT gets the nod when it comes to NEWER and more hi-tech plugins... they usually come out on TDM first. But I use the Waves Gold Bundle, Auto-tune, and Mic-Modeler on both systems (TDM and DirectX) and hear no difference in sound quality. I'm not saying I'm Bob Ludwig or Dave Moulton or anything with my ears, but I am a professional engineer and trust my ears to qualitative comparisons. Perhaps TDM versions are more expensive because the hardware allows live input monitoring, essentially making the plugin a live box, which greatly increases its value. It will be interesting to see if DirectX plugin prices remain so low now that native systems are moving into live software monitoring.
As far as reliability, yes, Pro-Tools is more stable. I'd say Sonar crashes about 3 times more during a session than the Pro-Tools system at work does. However, to reboot and reload Pro-Tools and the session you're working on takes about 3-4 minutes at work... rebooting and loading Sonar with a project at home takes like a minute tops. And just closing and opening the program again (PT, Sonar), well there's no comparison... PT takes almost 2 minutes, Sonar is almost instant. Sonar saves time, even though it crashes more often. I'll admit the system at work is a little on the slow side... a G4 would help... but I've seen Pro-Tools on a G4 and it's still not as fast as Sonar.
I used to lust after Pro-Tools, but now that Sonar's out, I really am quite content. If you can't do something mix-wise in Sonar, you're just not being creative enough. And if your mix doesn't sound right, it's your mix, not the system! I don't mean to sound like I'm slagging on ya or anything. I've been doing this for a long time and just recently have I started to turn out mixes on my native system that I'm proud of... and just as good as anything I do in Pro-Tools (get it? My tunes are as good as I am and no more)...
Just some food for thought before you shell out HARD cash for PT... if you really wanna learn, why not try Pro-Tools Free or LE?
psylichon
I work in a major studio in Philadelphia, using great, vintage analog gear, 2" 24-track tape machines, and an SSL 9000j console. I also use Pro-Tools every single day, doing track dumps, editing, and full mixes. I know Pro-Tools very well and enjoy using it for a variety of audio tasks (especially when I have a hardware control surface... then it's just the bomb).
Still, even with all this great gear, I prefer to do my own music at home in Sonar. Even knowing all the keyboard shortcuts, even with a hardware control surface, I still can't move as fast in Pro-Tools as I can in Sonar. The sound quality between the two systems is so close that, unless you're producing audio for SACD or DVD-Audio, I would laugh at you if you said native systems can't cut it. Nowadays, they simply can and do work for professional-level audio.
As far as plug-ins go, I can't say that the quality of sound is that much better in Pro-Tools. PT gets the nod when it comes to NEWER and more hi-tech plugins... they usually come out on TDM first. But I use the Waves Gold Bundle, Auto-tune, and Mic-Modeler on both systems (TDM and DirectX) and hear no difference in sound quality. I'm not saying I'm Bob Ludwig or Dave Moulton or anything with my ears, but I am a professional engineer and trust my ears to qualitative comparisons. Perhaps TDM versions are more expensive because the hardware allows live input monitoring, essentially making the plugin a live box, which greatly increases its value. It will be interesting to see if DirectX plugin prices remain so low now that native systems are moving into live software monitoring.
As far as reliability, yes, Pro-Tools is more stable. I'd say Sonar crashes about 3 times more during a session than the Pro-Tools system at work does. However, to reboot and reload Pro-Tools and the session you're working on takes about 3-4 minutes at work... rebooting and loading Sonar with a project at home takes like a minute tops. And just closing and opening the program again (PT, Sonar), well there's no comparison... PT takes almost 2 minutes, Sonar is almost instant. Sonar saves time, even though it crashes more often. I'll admit the system at work is a little on the slow side... a G4 would help... but I've seen Pro-Tools on a G4 and it's still not as fast as Sonar.
I used to lust after Pro-Tools, but now that Sonar's out, I really am quite content. If you can't do something mix-wise in Sonar, you're just not being creative enough. And if your mix doesn't sound right, it's your mix, not the system! I don't mean to sound like I'm slagging on ya or anything. I've been doing this for a long time and just recently have I started to turn out mixes on my native system that I'm proud of... and just as good as anything I do in Pro-Tools (get it? My tunes are as good as I am and no more)...
Just some food for thought before you shell out HARD cash for PT... if you really wanna learn, why not try Pro-Tools Free or LE?
psylichon
Message 26/26 11-Jun-01 @ 03:16 AM - RE: Why no DSP cards for DX
the next protools will run on windows 2k. I would like to see something like Logic & Emagic System Bridge for protools in Sonar. Run both DX, and TDM stuff on windows 2k with sonar as the environment. i e-mailed cakewalk and they replied they are considering the idea of forging relationships with dsp hardware developers. So, it's could actually happen.
Pages: 1 2 3
There are 26 total messages for this topic
Reply to Thread
You need to register/login to use the forum.
Click here to Signup or Login !
[you'll be brought right back to this point after signing up]
Back to Forum
