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Subject: recovering mac user

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Original Message 1/28 10-Dec-01 @ 10:02 PM - recovering mac user

knowa

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just kidding--I'm still a mac user. I'm thinking about getting one of those 1+ GHz athalon machines, though. For my lifestyle--stuffed into a studio apartment with my girlfriend, her graphic-design computer, and maybe a dog joining the mix, full-time non-music job--time and space are big factors. With My G4 4OO, I'm finding that I can barely even use my new Renaissance Verb, and I have to mix down the Pro-52 contstantly. I really want to get something like Halion or EXSP24, but read a message from a Wizoo developer that said Halion is "useable on a G4 400", but runs better on the PC (and, I guess, on faster Macs). As I'll be a student again soon, there's no way I'm gonna be able to afford a faster Mac for a long time, and I'm considering moving over to the dark PC side before I'm living on some meager stipend. I'm not religious about my OS. Before e.g. I give up $1,000 for a TC Powercore, I need to know more about the PC option.

Anyway, I'm wondering what a 1.something GHZ Athalon machine actually costs. I've heard that the $1,000 machines that I see in the PC Mall catalog are not really set up for audio, but that's from Mac-loyalists. Is that true? I have no beef with my PC at work, and heard nothing but raves about the Win2k. Without starting "that debate", will you tech savvy-PC music makers give me an estimate/advice on an audio PC?

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Message 2/28 10-Dec-01 @ 11:45 PM - RE: recovering mac user

steve

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even in the uk 1gig athlons are stupid cheap so I figure they must be even .....errrr stupider cheaper in the US or somefing like that. They were right tho - its unlikely you`ll get a decent pc for audio stuff off-the-shelf, better to either put your own together or get someone to do it for you.

I can`t tell you any more as I`m stupid.

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Message 3/28 11-Dec-01 @ 12:32 PM - RE: recovering mac user

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Powercore - unproven; has a ways to go yet

Athlon - tonnes of power, less taxing on your wallet and now you can run all the software man has to offer

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Message 4/28 11-Dec-01 @ 01:03 PM - RE: recovering mac user

bedwyr

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marc_d put a pc athlon based box together the other month, very cheap. can you keep your mac monitor? even cheaper. off the shelf are no good, and you pay over the odds for shit you don't need.

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Message 5/28 11-Dec-01 @ 02:55 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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I could keep the monitor (it's a gateway). what about a good "roll your own" website? I'll search google, but I'm stupid too, steve, so I don't know a mobo from a mofo and stuff like that. thanks.

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Message 6/28 11-Dec-01 @ 03:13 PM - RE: recovering mac user

99devils

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http://www.prorec.com

Their "Roll Your Own T-Bird" article is really good, and there's dozens of people on that site running the same configuration that can help you with tech questions - If you don't deviate from the spec.

-Craig

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Message 7/28 11-Dec-01 @ 05:02 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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cool thanks. mac's have the "plug in and play" reputation, and I'm very confident in my ability to keep mine running fine. We once tried to reinstall windows 98 on a machine at work and basically killed it. that said, though, the one I use now is fine and doesen't feel "flaky" as PC's are often described by mac users. I'm only running IE, MS stuff and SPSS, though.

how much upkeep and fussing do you guys do? like I said, the only reason to switch platforms would be to use a softsampler like Halion extensively to save time. I'll happily wear the label "lazy" about my computer: even if a PC has much more 'bang for the buck' those benefits would not be worth it for me if I had to perform more maintenance.

I'll look at prorec. thanks

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Message 8/28 11-Dec-01 @ 09:09 PM - RE: recovering mac user

99devils

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You may have to perform more maintenance, but with the new Windows 2000 based OSes (2k or XP) I suspect that will lessen. These OSes are really friggin' solid as long as all your hardware is supported.

Having said all that, I had a mac that started to flake out after about a month and a half of use. My 98SE machine could beat that. Just keep the machine clean (like you do at work) - no bullshit programs, no cr$cks, etc..

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Message 9/28 11-Dec-01 @ 09:50 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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$1400 for a 1.8 ghz, 7,200 rpm SCSI drive...sound reasonable? thats from pcbuildit.com.

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Message 10/28 12-Dec-01 @ 09:40 PM - RE: recovering mac user

influx

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nah man. thats ridiculous. I could build you a way better machine for way less. you could yourself as well

Asus A7v266
Thunderbird
you can go IDE for drives now. no reason not to
say...a gig of RAM?

thing I dont understand..the A7v uses DDR RAM? ONLY that type? isnt that shit expensive? Theres always the A7v133, which really otta be fast enough right craig?

dunno, man. I think...you could build a VERY solid machine for say $700 (assuming you already have a soundcard and you DO have a monitor)

check this place out
http://www.star-components.com/index.cfm

its a shame they dont sell MoBos, but...

you know...ebay is a good place too. just find the exact parts you want and look for them there

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Message 11/28 12-Dec-01 @ 09:44 PM - RE: recovering mac user

influx

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wait..lemme rephrase that "way better machine" part. a 1.8g processor is massive

but $1400 is high.

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Message 12/28 13-Dec-01 @ 03:34 PM - RE: recovering mac user

99devils

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Yeah, $1400 is kind of high.

I haven't built a box in a while, but I really do recommend that you try to stick to those Roll Your Own guidelines. The board specified there will work with the new T-bird XP cpu's and it takes standard RAM which'll save you money. And it's been tested by a lot of people running lots of different software and sound cards.

Off the top of my head, you should be able to build the machine minus audio interface and monitor for about $800.

If I get time later on today I will see if I can get you some harder figures.

-Craig

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Message 13/28 13-Dec-01 @ 03:37 PM - RE: recovering mac user

99devils

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http://www.advanceddesignky.com/system2.cfm?type=workstation

Systems from $700.

-Craig

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Message 14/28 13-Dec-01 @ 07:42 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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whoa! $700! that's REAL REAL REAL cheap compared to a Mac. I was thinking about withdrawing and killing my 401K when the next round of Mac's come out, but I think I could actually save enough for a PC without terrorizing my girlfriend. I haven't decided to do it yet, but many thanks for the info. I'm hesitant about getting a PC because it's only in the last few months that I feel I really know my Mac. I've only owned a computer for less than two years. I spent a while looking for the exact Mobo recommended in the "RYO" article (thanks) but a lot of places didn't offer it. I'll keep snooping and follow the link above.

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Message 15/28 13-Dec-01 @ 07:47 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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oh yeah, reagrding soundcard, I have a MOTU 2408 that needs a PCI slot. Is this a soundcard as well as an interface?

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Message 16/28 13-Dec-01 @ 07:55 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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ok, one last question: I see some systems (THANKS CRAIG!) with 2 AMD processors. I know that on the Mac, multiprocessing is not giving audio people to much of a boost (I think it's more effective in graphics programs), and all NI stuff is not compatible with it. Is multiproecessing faring better on the PC?

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Message 17/28 13-Dec-01 @ 08:56 PM - RE: recovering mac user

influx

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its not really necessary

look: www.pricewatch.com

Tbird 1.4 gig $99
Iwill KK266 $93
512megs PC133 (from star components.com) $55
20 gig IDE drive (IBM I think? or maxtor) $67
Case (DOPE black one from PC Case.com) $59
Maxtor G450 dual head 32 meg (You can TOTALLY skimp here..if its just for music you dont need insane graphics, and dont need dual head if youre not usin two monitors) $80

thats $453. boom. HUGE machine. add another drive if need be, or get a smaller one, or whatever

and yes..this will work with your MOTU. SIX PCI slots on that Iwill. 2408 is a soundcard. just has an 8 in 8 out breakout.

you have the MKI or MKII?
Dave

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Message 18/28 14-Dec-01 @ 02:46 PM - RE: recovering mac user

99devils

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Yeah, Influx is spot on with the MOTU.

Multiprocessing isn't necessary, and if you're a Cubase or Logic user it's probably preferable not to have it. You have to run Windows 2000 or XP to support it, and I don't think Cubase or Logic are very happy running on those operating systems.

Now, if you're going to use Sonar.. Sonar is coded fully multithreaded so it will properly use dual processors. Another advantage is that DX effects and synths will run on seperate processors as well.

Personally, I'd avoid the dual CPU stuff until it's been a bit more tested for our uses - let someone else suffer through a broken system

-Craig

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Message 19/28 14-Dec-01 @ 03:36 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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cool. this has given me a clear picture of why die-hard PC users are so offended by precious Macs. Not completely sure I'm gonna take the plunge, but at $500-800, it's not so much of a plunge, eh? I still might opt for a pre-assembled box as I don't know how to do it, and am one of those "all brains, no common sense" types who has trouble e,g, spackling. If I do, I'll just get that burning 1.8Ghz T-bird,1025 MB RAM (the whole point is to run Halion) and definitely two big HD's.

pretty sure I've got the MKII--Cubase lets me select 24 bit recording so I think that means I have the MKII. rock on helpful DT'ers.

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Message 20/28 14-Dec-01 @ 03:55 PM - RE: recovering mac user

bedwyr

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don't buy a pre-assembled!!! get a little computer store to put it together for you, from your spec. with their discount it won't be much more expensive than building it youself.

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Message 21/28 14-Dec-01 @ 04:46 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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ok, cool. I'll check into that. I just like the idea of having one place responsible for the machine, and wouldn't mind paying $100 bucks for some sort of warranty. I'll check it out, though. all those !!!'s; it's like you're yelling at me.

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Message 22/28 14-Dec-01 @ 05:55 PM - RE: recovering mac user

bedwyr

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i am. ;)

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Message 23/28 14-Dec-01 @ 06:33 PM - RE: recovering mac user

99devils

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Advanced Design pretty much is a mom-and-pop jobber.

You can probably find some kind soul here to put it together for you too..

-Craig

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Message 24/28 14-Dec-01 @ 08:52 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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MOM! bedwyr's !!!!ing at me again!

advanced design: I like the idea of telling people my computer's originally from Kentucky.

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Message 25/28 14-Dec-01 @ 09:34 PM - RE: recovering mac user

influx

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I could put it together no sweat.

but actually, so could you. its REALLY not that hard

and as for the 2408 if its got 1/4" connections its a MKII. old one had RCAs

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Message 26/28 16-Dec-01 @ 06:03 AM - RE: recovering mac user

99devils

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PCs are cheap and it's dirt easy to build one yourself exactly to spec with what you've researhed to be reliable

I usually get a few years out of 'em too, contrary to popular belief. After your machine is a year or so old.. Mine came with 128MB and it's cost me all of $50 over the last year and a half tobring it to 512MB. It's still a fast box, and it's only 700mhz

-Craig

-Craig

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Message 27/28 17-Dec-01 @ 06:09 PM - RE: recovering mac user

knowa

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yeah--straight up if I get one, I'll learn how to build it myself. No excuse not to learn. I guess I just balked at the idea of not having a system for music while I put mine together, but I'll just keep my mac together until everythings ready to go. Gonna get Halion as soon as I can and see how I make out doings frequent mixdowns. If it is oo much of a hassle, I'll make a move on making the switch. In any case, I doubt I'll buy another mac again.

question remains though, if everything PC is as rosy as many say it is, why do the vast majority of pros/studios use macs? not a rhetorical question--serously, why do you think that is?

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Message 28/28 17-Dec-01 @ 08:19 PM - RE: recovering mac user

influx

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probably the same reason you do...because theyve heard so many bad things why would they switch?

everything is NOT perfect...not with PCs, not with MACs. again..theyre made by fallible creatures so they are fallible

get a PC and maintain it and youll be fine.

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